Amelia
Well-Known Member
Has anyone heard of the ECHA ?
Anybody heard of the ECHA ???
- Thread starter Amelia
- Start date
Has anyone heard of the ECHA ?
MissIndependance
Well-Known Member
http://www.echa-esv.de Sorry the site is in German but this is ECHA who held their first grading in the UK today
Damien
Well-Known Member
Was going to post the link but RS has already done that, they are a coloured horse registry, have a variety of books within the registry along similar structure to the other German studbooks, warmblood, small riding horse, pony, lewitzer etc, not very unlike CHAPS BSPA PZVS, the coloured societies, couldn't tell you if they have EU "Stud Book" Status or simply an EU recognised passport issuing authority, but definietly not recognised with the WBFSH.
Amelia
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info everybody.
RS: Congratulations Sarah
Was it by invitation only Sarah ??
Opie: thanks for the pm - I couldnt agree with you more !
MissIndependance
Well-Known Member
I beleive it was a fairly last minute thing - which I assume is why it wasn't widely advertised, for me it was ideal as CHAPS always seem to have their gradings up north, and I cannot travel far with 2 young children. The KNN grading in Wolverhampton is going to be a military opertaion to organise getting my boy to as it is!
No idea if it was by invitation only - it was mentioned to me when I was discussing semen with the stud
No idea if it was by invitation only - it was mentioned to me when I was discussing semen with the stud
MissIndependance
Well-Known Member
It wasn't invitation only but due to the fact that they only had one day and that was stuffed to the hilt it was not advertised. ECHA do hold EU studbook status, and next year it will be announced in plenty of time and open to everyone who wants to present their horses. There were 21 horses presented so time was tight especially with the ridden test for the older stallions.
It'll be nice to see even more presented next year as the name becomes more familiar over here
It'll be nice to see even more presented next year as the name becomes more familiar over here
Amelia
Well-Known Member
Sounds super RS.
I know a lot of people are talking about the fact that the ECHA have Graded a stallion(s)
that has failed with another Society. (Although I dont know the stallion first hand)
Did they give you (or the stallion owners) score sheets/critique?
As the website is in German were you given any info about the Society in English
I know a lot of people are talking about the fact that the ECHA have Graded a stallion(s)
that has failed with another Society. (Although I dont know the stallion first hand)
Did they give you (or the stallion owners) score sheets/critique?
As the website is in German were you given any info about the Society in English
Damien
Well-Known Member
Actually Amelia two stallions that I know of, but I think we need to remain open minded regarding the pass / fail aspect between studbooks as even the lead ranking studbooks such as Oldenburg, Hanoverian, ZfDp etc often decline a stallion where others have accepted them.
RS I do not mean to undermine your acheivmemts in anyway and extend my congratulations to you, but agree with Amelia's viewpoint, it does seem strange that invitations were only extended to a select few, regardless of whether it was a last minute arrangement or not and is evidently now being perceived as a closed door affair which is perhaps not the best way to proceed if one wishes to gain public credibility and recognition from the approvals/premiums awarded, regardless of the no doubedtly honest intentions.
I recognise that indidual private inspections are offered by a number of studbooks across Europe but these are few and far between and it is usually only done when a stallion has already been inspected or holds a breeding license with another EU studbooks and they wish to confirm that the standards meet their own.
Perhaps this event, along with all the other recent Gradings being held in England is a sign that British Breeders have lost confidence in their own British Based studbooks?
RS I do not mean to undermine your acheivmemts in anyway and extend my congratulations to you, but agree with Amelia's viewpoint, it does seem strange that invitations were only extended to a select few, regardless of whether it was a last minute arrangement or not and is evidently now being perceived as a closed door affair which is perhaps not the best way to proceed if one wishes to gain public credibility and recognition from the approvals/premiums awarded, regardless of the no doubedtly honest intentions.
I recognise that indidual private inspections are offered by a number of studbooks across Europe but these are few and far between and it is usually only done when a stallion has already been inspected or holds a breeding license with another EU studbooks and they wish to confirm that the standards meet their own.
Perhaps this event, along with all the other recent Gradings being held in England is a sign that British Breeders have lost confidence in their own British Based studbooks?
Figiel
New User
Because this was organised at very short notice there was only one day available and 21 horses presented, so there simply wasn't time to do any advertising or accept any other horses. There was nothing secretive about it, just simple logistics.
It was a trial run to see if there is a basis to continue in years to come, which overwhelmingly there was. Next year the number of days will be governed by the number of people wanting to present horses so anyone who wants to can.
As far as stallions being approved that have failed elsewhere - honestly, is there ONE society in the world who has never approved a stallion that has not passed a grading first time elsewhere, or even with them?
As it happens there were two stallions there on the day that had, indeed,not been graded at their first attempt, HOWEVER - both these WERE graded at their second go - so were "already graded" at the time of being presented with ECHA.
It is worth pointing out that the chief grader is Dr Ramsauer, who is one of the most experienced graders Germany has to offer, and was, amongst other things, the chirf grader for the Oldenburg Verband for years, travelling all over the world being chirf grader for Oldenburg worldwide, so I would say he is well qualified to make grading decisions.
Also - have a look at the "who is who" of great sires, and you find numerous ones which failed gradings and performance tests at their first attempt - sometimes a horse is simply too immature, or has a bad day, or just doesn't quite fit the flavour of the day.
I have spoken to everyone who attended and everyone was very pleased with the way they were treated and their horses asessed, benefitting from the advice of someone who also judges the German Bundeschampionate.
It was a trial run to see if there is a basis to continue in years to come, which overwhelmingly there was. Next year the number of days will be governed by the number of people wanting to present horses so anyone who wants to can.
As far as stallions being approved that have failed elsewhere - honestly, is there ONE society in the world who has never approved a stallion that has not passed a grading first time elsewhere, or even with them?
As it happens there were two stallions there on the day that had, indeed,not been graded at their first attempt, HOWEVER - both these WERE graded at their second go - so were "already graded" at the time of being presented with ECHA.
It is worth pointing out that the chief grader is Dr Ramsauer, who is one of the most experienced graders Germany has to offer, and was, amongst other things, the chirf grader for the Oldenburg Verband for years, travelling all over the world being chirf grader for Oldenburg worldwide, so I would say he is well qualified to make grading decisions.
Also - have a look at the "who is who" of great sires, and you find numerous ones which failed gradings and performance tests at their first attempt - sometimes a horse is simply too immature, or has a bad day, or just doesn't quite fit the flavour of the day.
I have spoken to everyone who attended and everyone was very pleased with the way they were treated and their horses asessed, benefitting from the advice of someone who also judges the German Bundeschampionate.
Damien
Well-Known Member
Hi Petra I am aware it was all arranged at very short notice and initially for one stallion only, which then escalated quickly into a formal event for numerous horses and stallions or at least that is how it has been presented to me by the stallion owner involved.
Personally, as a Stud Owner though, I could not have faced the daunting task of deciding which of my clients I should or should not invite (a bit like who should and should not be invited to the wedding scenario ) and personally for the sake of Grace, would have preffered to defer until the following year rather than isolate a single one of my valued clientelle!
I will not comment much more on the failed / successful status of those stallions presented as I have already made my point and feel we both agree that the criteria looked for by both studbooks mentioned are evidently quite different which is commonly expressed by many studbooks even those at the top of the world rankings, otherwise the results would have been the same.
Of course the political move and reasoning behind the events that have taken place has been carefully thought out, as we know stallions approved with ECHA are illegaible for full ZfDp papers providing that both parents meet the studbook guidelines for main studbook registration. A politically calculated move by a stallion owner that is aware of how to best place their stallion which can only be applauded.
I do however have my doubts on the breeding worthiness of any stallion that is intended as a breeding sport horse stallion with a coloured society only in the first instance, as it has always been my belief and would hope that other sport horse breeders share my opinion; that if a stallion is worthy of sport horse breeding status should present himself alongside other sport horse stallions at a sport horse stud book Grading.
This is not meant to dismiss the hard work that has been put into developing the coloured societies as wholeheartedly support the work that has been done by them all and understand the logic and reasoning that went behind their philosphies when they were first created, however times have since moved on and the negative bias towards coloured breeding animals within the UK no longer exists, therefore the same excuses of predjudice can no longer be used and feel they should be measured alongside the best of the "solid" participants.
I think it is regretable the way this Grading has been perceived but what has been done has been done. In all fairness I gave it no thought when the news was first announced until a variety of viewpoints were shared and I realised how isolated a number of my colleagues felt.
Personally, as a Stud Owner though, I could not have faced the daunting task of deciding which of my clients I should or should not invite (a bit like who should and should not be invited to the wedding scenario ) and personally for the sake of Grace, would have preffered to defer until the following year rather than isolate a single one of my valued clientelle!
I will not comment much more on the failed / successful status of those stallions presented as I have already made my point and feel we both agree that the criteria looked for by both studbooks mentioned are evidently quite different which is commonly expressed by many studbooks even those at the top of the world rankings, otherwise the results would have been the same.
Of course the political move and reasoning behind the events that have taken place has been carefully thought out, as we know stallions approved with ECHA are illegaible for full ZfDp papers providing that both parents meet the studbook guidelines for main studbook registration. A politically calculated move by a stallion owner that is aware of how to best place their stallion which can only be applauded.
I do however have my doubts on the breeding worthiness of any stallion that is intended as a breeding sport horse stallion with a coloured society only in the first instance, as it has always been my belief and would hope that other sport horse breeders share my opinion; that if a stallion is worthy of sport horse breeding status should present himself alongside other sport horse stallions at a sport horse stud book Grading.
This is not meant to dismiss the hard work that has been put into developing the coloured societies as wholeheartedly support the work that has been done by them all and understand the logic and reasoning that went behind their philosphies when they were first created, however times have since moved on and the negative bias towards coloured breeding animals within the UK no longer exists, therefore the same excuses of predjudice can no longer be used and feel they should be measured alongside the best of the "solid" participants.
I think it is regretable the way this Grading has been perceived but what has been done has been done. In all fairness I gave it no thought when the news was first announced until a variety of viewpoints were shared and I realised how isolated a number of my colleagues felt.