Anybody know their rights on livery yard?

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KatieLovesJames

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Hi peeps,
OK, long story ... livery pays one months rent in advance for stable (diy stable including use of field and arena) then removes horses for a holiday. 2 weeks later livery decides not to return to yard and gives her notice. Yard owner says she requires two weeks notice so there will be no rent owing this is accepted by both parties. The next day yard owner moves new livery into stable being paid for already. The original livery needs to return her horse to the yard due to temporary lameness issue (horse ripped shoe and part of foot off) (she has paid for the use of stables until the end of month) YO says she has given stables to someone else. Livery says ok and asks for a refund YO refuses to return any money and refuses to allow her to use stable.
Does anyone know where both parties stand? Is this kind of thing normal on livery yards? Nowhere else in business would you find this kind of behaviour!
Someone please advise
Thanks X
 
IMO livery is very lucky that YO didn't insist on one month's notice as she should have been entitled to. Notice is usually equal to the rental periods. Livery should have thought about what she would do in an emergency before potentially leaving YO in the lurch.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
IMO livery is very lucky that YO didn't insist on one month's notice as she should have been entitled to. Notice is usually equal to the rental periods. Livery should have thought about what she would do in an emergency before potentially leaving YO in the lurch.
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Agree with this, if livery has told YO she won't be going back then it would be unreasonable to expect them to turn a new livery away 'in case' paid up livery changes her mind. I suppose it was all just bad timing but I don't think livery had any right to return after giving short notice.
 
Difficult one. As technically the stable is still being rented by the livery.. But at the same time, notice is being served..

I think that the livery owner should offer a refund for the stable for the time its been double paid.

And I think the livery should have a) not taken the wet...
and b) had the brains to work out what she was going to do if the horse went lame.. cause come on.. what she going to do in 3 weeks time if the horse pull its shoe off and needs stabling?!

Lou x
 
what does the livery contract say ??
sounds out of order and illegal to me,
as you have paid for the stable its yours until the end of the notice period doesnt matter if your there or not, if you had given notice whilst still being at the yard the Yo would not be able to re rent the stable until you had left,
the Yo should either refund the two weeks or offer you another stable
BUT it all depends on what the contract says :)
 
Gosh! I have been being far too nice to my liveries then!
There was a 2 week notice agreement so it was not 'short' notice/ The livery is still paying for the stable but cannot use it.
I never fill stables if a livery has paid and left they can still use that stable even it is to store a cardboard box aren't they paying for the privilege? Wouldn't I be breaching my contract to them by not letting them use something I was taking money off them for?

edited to say there is no signed contract in this case, just a pack of yard rules basically saying what you can and cannot use for your weekly rent
 
It sounds as though the yard owner has been very reasonable in letting her pay for just two weeks livery rather than the four, possibly as they knew someone else would want her space quickly. Which as you say suited both parties well.

She has ended her contract with the livery yard informing them that she was not returning.

I think YO has been very fair and correct.
 
Don't know if right or wrong but tend to side with livery owner more as livery had given notice tho yes technically would say she still paying for 2 weeks.Think most yards would have done the same in those particular circumstances YO didn't know they would come back and filled the gap left.
What did she plan to do after 2 weeks and horse still lame??Would YO have to tell new client sorry but old livery would move when horse up to it and leave a gap?Not having a go just saying may be reasons.
Personally I would probably have given a refund at least half if not all the 2 weeks as not losing anything but then I'm soft.
 
If you look at it as

If you rent your house out, your tenants give you a months notice, but due to relocation they decide to pack up and go, empty house, hand keys back etc, then by chance you manage to get another tenant in within a week, old tenants contact you as they want to come and stay for a weekend as they have a goodbye party to go to.

They have relinquished their contract with you, it is now upto you what you do with the house what you want, it was there choice whether they stay for the months notice or not, but the contract says what is due on both sides so that is what they pay for a months notice. They could have waited till the end of the month before moving out, but they chose not to. Your friend could have said she wished to hand her notice in but not go immediately she chose to go immediately.

There choices and change of circumstances is not the landlords problem, nor is it the livery owners problem they are running a business.
 
But the livery had not removed her things or emptied her stable or handed the keys back.

I have always offered refunds in this situation. I honestly thought if a livery was paying me for a stable then I had to provide them with a stable!
 
Does this mean then legally if you give your notice then the YO can move another livery in any time it suits because if you hand your notice in you are no longer entitled to what you are paying for?
 
This has happened to me and it's very annoying. A yard owner should either refund the leaving party's money, or not allow the new person to move in until the vacancy properly arises whether the horse is present or not, not both!
 
I have only been through it from a landlord point of view, in the scenario I gave and the judge found in our favour, as cant remember the legal time, but once you give notice and no longer need what you are paying for the owner can do what they wish with property as you have returned use to them. If the livery gave notice saying she was not coming back, then the yard owner can fill her space as soon as possible. However, if the livery gave notice saying they were leaving in two weeks time and gave no indication whether horse would be returning in the meantime or not then her stable should be available to her.

However, with no contact it is going to be word against word.

I think it is going to come down to whether she handed her notice in and said she would not be moving the horse back for the remaining two weeks, or if she said the horse was not going to be returning and what notice is due. As in your original post you said the
"2 weeks later livery decided not to return to the yard" I am assuming she told the yard owner horse would not be returning, therefore has given up her right to the stable, she is just paying herside of termination of the contract she has with YO.
 
Thanks Scally,
Thats really interesting. Not sure about indication of the horses not returning but the horses beds were still in, all tack and rugs still in situ nothing had been romoved except the horses and the yard/tack room key was still being held by livery.
I appreciate its difficult I have always refunded my liveries regardless of situation as a goodwill gesture.
 
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This is where a Livery Yard Regulation would help, it would pull in line yards that arent properly registered, business rates, insurance etc, but also a clear contract for both parties to know exactly what the rights and wrongs are.

You rent a house you have to follow strict procedures, the same should be of a stable on your land, whether one stable to a friend or 100 as a business, YOs get a lot of stick as they are trying hard to run a business in a time when insurance is going through the rough, business rates and taxes are increasing yet liveries want to pay £20 a week as they can get it from someone down the road, who is not properly covered to have a paying livery.

Maybe a friendly chat, face to face may be able to resolve the situation as all good YO's dont like to have ill feeling and all good liveries like to leave under good circumstances.

Hopefully a reasonable outcome can be sorted out.
 
BubbleDog said:
This has happened to me and it's very annoying. A yard owner should either refund the leaving party's money, or not allow the new person to move in until the vacancy properly arises whether the horse is present or not, not both!
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On balance, I'm with this point of view.
 
scally said:
Hopefully a reasonable outcome can be sorted out.
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That would be lovely but unfortunately YO has resorted to sarcastic texts!
I have always refunded and at least felt like I have done the best I can for my own peace of mind ( I like to sleep at night!)

As usual as you said scally this yard is unofficial who knows if they are insured.

Thanks guys really interesting X
 
Right that makes things very different if the existing livery hadn't actually packed up and left. Its her stable if she's paid for it, and the YO has absolutely no right to prevent her from using it - she should certainly refund the money for the time she is unable to use the facilities she has paid for.

I personally would kick up such merry hell the YO would regret the day they met me.
I've had a belly full of YO taking the pee, its shocking how many want your cash yet fail to provide the service or facilities they promise - no disrespect to fair YO and those that run a good ship x
 
I know a YO who took monthly rent on a stable while owner searched for a new horse and then still rented it to someone else (thus getting two lots of livery) as 'she is taking soo long to find a horse and stable is empty' Numpty owner A was ok with this and happily moved into a different and very inferior stable when she found her horse!!

On a different note, same YO asked me to close off half my very poor grazing this year so he could use it for hay. So I have fed hay all summer thinking that at least I will get a good deal come winter.. yeah right! Top price for the hay that I have already paid for as part of my livery fee!! Needless to add I am buying in from elsewhere.
 
My thoughts on this are pretty simple. It's a total mess. YO in theory shouldn't rent the stable out again until after the notice period, but the livery has been way too fluffy and presumptious and has basically messed the YO around. Once it's got to this stage all's lost anyway. No-one's "right" as it sounds like nothing was done correctly in the first place. Basically need to leave it to them to sort it out as they've made their own bed ......
 
Its an awkward situation.

My yard owner would have done the same.
One that stable was free it would have been filled, regardless of whether original livery had paid for it and new livery paying for it too.

It they were on good terms and the owner had an emergency then im sure most yard owners would have found them space but really once that person had left the yard thats it, livery over and its no longer their stable
 
blucanoo1990 said:
Its an awkward situation.

My yard owner would have done the same.
One that stable was free it would have been filled, regardless of whether original livery had paid for it and new livery paying for it too.

It they were on good terms and the owner had an emergency then im sure most yard owners would have found them space but really once that person had left the yard thats it, livery over and its no longer their stable
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Thanks, Is the stable 'free' if the horses beds are still in and tack rugs all still in situ?
 
When i moved yards recently, I gave my notice (paid) and left the next day. I paid the notice period and i choose to leave, the YO gave my stable to someone on the waiting list as soon i left the yard. It was my choice so quick, even though i paid the notice i didnt want to stay. If i turned round and say in fact that after i went i need to come back for a short amount of time it would of been a no, the stable already had been taken. Its my choice to go, i paid my livery, i dont think its right that the YO should wait around for a maybe, when shes got a diffinate
 
I think the YO is in the wrong.. she has paid for the stable so it should be hers till the end of the month.
I think he shouldn't have given it away so quick but I also think the woman shouldn't have said that she wouldn't be coming back..
 
She didnt say that she wouldn't be coming back, she said that she would have to give her notice.
All her tack and rugs and beds were still in situ. She had not removed anything except the horses 2 weeks earlier to give them more grass.
 
Rache said:
When i moved yards recently, I gave my notice (paid) and left the next day. I paid the notice period and i choose to leave, the YO gave my stable to someone on the waiting list as soon i left the yard. It was my choice so quick, even though i paid the notice i didnt want to stay. If i turned round and say in fact that after i went i need to come back for a short amount of time it would of been a no, the stable already had been taken. Its my choice to go, i paid my livery, i dont think its right that the YO should wait around for a maybe, when shes got a diffinate
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Hmm I have a livery who has given me 2 weeks notice and taken her horse however she has left a stable full of buckets, rugs, stable mats and oddments. She has paid her 2 weeks notice so I am allowing her to use the stable for that period before i move another horse in. Should I tell her to collect her stuff and move another horse in and refuse to refund her?
 
Didnt see that she had left things in situ, if thats the case then thats what she is paying for. In my case when i took the horse everything came away the same day. So it was an offical leave not half and half. So in this case a refund is needed
 
Rache said:
Didnt see that she had left things in situ, if thats the case then thats what she is paying for. In my case when i took the horse everything came away the same day. So it was an offical leave not half and half. So in this case a refund is needed
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Cheers guys, yep that seems only fair :-)
 
One thing I would say is that I used to be at a yard and the owner (who was also a farmer and good businessman and who was very well up with the law etc) had a policy of requiring 1 months notice regardless of what time of the month you decided to give your notice and this was written into his standard contract. When people left early their stable remained theirs until the finish date of their notice period and even when existing liveries asked if they could move into X vacant box they had to wait until the notice period was over until they could move in.

When I left I gave 1 months notice but left the same day that I gave my notice. I had paid one month in advance but my notice period would have taken me into the next month by one week, so in my 'resignation' letter I told yard owner that I had cancelled my standing order and that he would need to invoice me for the extra week. He contacted me much nearer the end of the month and told me that he had relet my stable from the 1st of the month and that in view of this he would not require me to pay the additional week. He was a very fair man and ran his yard like a proper business.
 
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