Anyone any experience with lameness after farrier visit?

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Forgive me if stupid questions but I'm not a horse vet, never have been and 7yrs out of vet school now so forgotten most of what I once knew about horse vet stuff!

Wondering if horse has nail bind. He was shod last Wed and farrier did mention he'd had to put a couple of nails in a bit higher than usual to avoid crap foot below. Horse felt fine Wed evening for SJ and Thur for flatwork but Fri hacked him out and he took a few short steps on his left fore - wasn't convinced though - I do tend to be paranoid about lameness. Sat it snowed so no riding. Sun went to dressage and he felt fine for Novice and won it but then took a few more short steps when got him back out to warmup for Elem. Seemed quickly ok though and felt fine in test.

Wasn't happy though so got farrier back out Tue and he took out the high corner nail on his left fore. He was lame LF on left rein on the lunge at this point but sound on the right rein. Withdrew from this weekend's comps and started him on bute. Today he's about 2/10 lame LF in a straight line and 3/10 lame LF on the left rein on the lunge. He has quite a bounding pulse in his fetlock LF and foot feels hot over the nail hole where the nail was removed. Tubbed his foot with hot water and epsom salts and have poulticed overnight. Farrier is coming back tomorrow morning and will get him to remove shoe and I guess I just have to poultice over the weekend and see what happens. Will have to stop bute on Sat as due to compete at Larkhill a week Sunday. I have got the next 10days off work so this is just typical! Currently wondering what my chances are of making it to Larkhill. Things seem to be conspiring against me ever competing at BE100! Last yr he did his tendon 3days before our first BE100, last weekend Munstead was cancelled and now this! I am assuming this is all down to a misplaced nail - hoping he's just sore from it pinching him for nearly a week rather than us being on the way to a nasty abscess as just dealt with one of those in my other horse and he was off work for 2mths!

Any thoughts? How quickly is he likely to come sound if just a nail pinching him?
 
One I ride had this happen last year at the start of the season and she took 6 weeks to come right:( Hopefully your's will be quicker!
 
It does sound like the nail was the trigger, but 'crap foot' sets off alarm bells for me, and they may be the underlying cause. Crap feet are entirely avoidable 99% of the time, but can take a lot of dedication to get healthy. If you want any advice on this, pop a post in vet & hoofcare, pref with pics and current diet :).
 
Yep I have experienced it. If it is nail bind it can take a couple of weeks, so getting the shoe off and poulitcing/tubbing is a good plan. You may have a little abscess brewing too if an infection has got in the nail. However, hate to say this but madam started off like this and it turned out there were underlying balance issued in the foot which weren't obvious externally, but basically meant when the foot looked balanced (so just shod) it was putting pressure internally and causing her discomfort... So wasn't nail bind. I would just keep an eye on it, but because you've got an obvious cause (high up nail) I would say its likely to be this :) fingers crossed for a quick recovery!
 
In my experience anything farrier related comes on straight after shoeing rather than a couple of days later ?
 
He doesn't grow any foot so always fighting a losing battle where his feet are concerned. Farrier hardly has anything to trim when he comes so nails end up going almost in the same holes which makes them prone to cracking. They look much better than when I got him but don't know how to make him grow more hoof.

Sam - it might well have started after shoeing but just didn't show up as onlyon soft surfaces and wasn't till I trotted on the road 2days later he felt a bit off but even then not 100% convincing. Just seems to have got gradually worse since shod and pulse/hot hoof definitely pointing towards a foot problem.
 
I would definitely get the shoe taken off if he has a bounding pulse to the foot and poultice. Would be worth running some hoof testers over foot to see if there is pain around a particular nail. Would also take him off the bute. Also may be worth checking for a corn, once the shoe is off too. Those can tend to appear more intermittent and worse on hard ground.

I bought a horse years ago that sounds similar in terms of hoof quality and put her on farriers formular. It was expensive, but she really started to push through some hoof and was much better quality. Stopped it after 6 months mostly due to cost and haven't really needed it since. May be worth a try.
 
Extract below explains lameness may not be immediate...

Nail 'bind' and nail 'prick':
Shoeing of horses' hooves is essential but unfortunately not without risks. Accurate placement of the nails is essential. Not only to ensure a firm hold within the wall of the hoof but that the nail does not penetrate too deep as it can irritate sensitive structures beneath, primarily the sensitive laminae.

When the shoeing nail has been placed too close to the sensitive laminae this is called "nail bind" and if the nail has penetrated the sensitive laminae this is called "nail prick".

What are the signs of Nail Bind and Prick?
The first sign of a problem is lameness. This usually does not occur immediately but will be seen over the following few days after shoeing. Application of hoof testers or tapping the hoof around the nail will elicit pain. Also if removal of the nail is attempted the horse may resent it. There is an increased digital pulse in the palmar digital arteries, which are located on the side, or lateral, aspect of the fetlock and can be felt by placing a finger over them.

How can I prevent 'nail bind' and 'nail prick'?
Regular attention from a competent farrier will ensure that your horse's feet are in optimal condition. Specific supplements are also available which can aid in hoof health and advice on the best treatment for your horse can be obtained from your veterinary surgeon.
 
It does really sound like a nail bind to me. Usually not lame immediately, I guess this is due to the lameness being as a result of inflammation which takes time to occur. Plus you say there is heat over the nail area.

Shoe off, hot tub twice a day and poltice.

If that is what it is you def. have a chance of getting to your event.

Good luck.
 
Well farrier has been back this morning. There was nothing on the poultice overnight. Still no reaction to hoof testers, no pain over any of the nails. Took the shoe off and still no reaction but foot generally feeling hot and still obvious pulses in his fetlocks. His frog has got some serious bruising coming out though so we are assuming it is that which would explain why he is so intermittently lame. He's put some Magic Cushion goo over it and fitted a pad and said if it's just that he would expect him to be sound by Sunday so we will see what happens. Fingers crossed that's all it is. Ground has been so bad recently farrier said he is seeing so many hoof related problems.
 
star said:
Well farrier has been back this morning. There was nothing on the poultice overnight. Still no reaction to hoof testers, no pain over any of the nails. Took the shoe off and still no reaction but foot generally feeling hot and still obvious pulses in his fetlocks. His frog has got some serious bruising coming out though so we are assuming it is that which would explain why he is so intermittently lame. He's put some Magic Cushion goo over it and fitted a pad and said if it's just that he would expect him to be sound by Sunday so we will see what happens. Fingers crossed that's all it is. Ground has been so bad recently farrier said he is seeing so many hoof related problems.
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He should be much improved with the pad plus MC within 48 hours if it is bruising. If he isn't you might be looking at either inflammation of the coffin joint due to the ground (this can be blocked out so easy to check) or a tweak to a collateral ligament. Both have good prognosis, although a bit longer recovery than you want :o
 
If he's still lame after the bank holiday I think I'll be off on my familiar road trip to Liphook for nerve blocks and x-rays. Blasted horse.
 
I hope it comes to nothing for you Star and is just a bit of a bruise or similar. Pinky started out like that, lame a few days after a shoeing, then she pulled a shoe that got replaced and she was markedly more lame. We hoped nail bind/bruising but alas no, my vet got called in and we did nerve blocks and xrays to find issues with foot balance and soft tissue damage. I took her barefoot in the end rather than covering up the issue with shoeing and she has had a year off to have a foal and grow new feet. Fingers crossed its nothing like that with Monty.
 
How do you investigate slow growing hooves? I just assumed it was the TB in him. He's on a balanced diet with additional hoof supplementation.
 
star said:
How do you investigate slow growing hooves? I just assumed it was the TB in him. He's on a balanced diet with additional hoof supplementation.
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It's a myth that TB's have slow growing hooves. Given the right diet, adequate movement and circulation they grow just as fast as any other breed of horse.

It is usually dietary but sometimes it can be an underlying health issue.

Is the diet balanced from NRC or Kellon or? And what is the additional hoof supplementation?
 
My farrier said hoof growth has been v. slow generally with the rubbish weather affecting crops etc for so long. No amount of additives etc seem to make up for it.:(
 
My flat footed TB had this after last shod. Boiling hot foot but not sensitive to hoof testers, intermittent lameness. Had 5 days of bute and a few quiet weeks on the walker it took 4 weeks. Although I probably hindered it by doing too much too soon when he was sound, I quickly made him lame again. I was ready for nerve blocks and X-rays on wk 3 but vet said 1 more wk and he was right! He's been fine for 2 wks now. **touch wood** vet thinks it was bad bruising from the frozen ground.
 
No experience with nail bind (sorry! :o) but can sympathise with the slow growing feet - Wilby's (TB) hooves grow really slowly, and so my farrier only rasps once he's put the new shoe on. Literally just takes a slither off! Seems to work, as he did have cr*p feet and now they are pretty good - just don't grow fast! I'm also pretty certain his isn't diet related; would assume their is a genetic element to hoof growth aswell?
Hope he comes sound soon and that it's nothing too serious!
 
BronsonNutter said:
No experience with nail bind (sorry! :o) but can sympathise with the slow growing feet - Wilby's (TB) hooves grow really slowly, and so my farrier only rasps once he's put the new shoe on. Literally just takes a slither off! Seems to work, as he did have cr*p feet and now they are pretty good - just don't grow fast! I'm also pretty certain his isn't diet related; would assume their is a genetic element to hoof growth aswell?
Hope he comes sound soon and that it's nothing too serious!
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Diet, metabolic disease (often undiagnosed) and shoes all contribute to slowing down hoof growth.

I've deshod a number of horses with hooves that 'don't grow' - only to find that they grow perfectly normally once the management changes have been made.

Genetics is a great excuse - but the major 'genetic' factor is what humans have done to UK grazing - breeding grasses that produce more sugar than horses have evolved to cope with.
 
LucyPriory said:
Diet, metabolic disease (often undiagnosed) and shoes all contribute to slowing down hoof growth.

I've deshod a number of horses with hooves that 'don't grow' - only to find that they grow perfectly normally once the management changes have been made.

Genetics is a great excuse - but the major 'genetic' factor is what humans have done to UK grazing - breeding grasses that produce more sugar than horses have evolved to cope with.
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I had one of these, farrier told me he needed to be shod behind as he was wearing his feet too quickly in our concrete floored horse walker and that his feet didnt grow because he was a typical TB. Now out of shoes all round, has had his diet and supplementation tweaked and is literally trimmed every 2/3 weeks at home as his feet grow like wildfire and no amount of roadwork can keep on top of them...!

Crap TB feet is a myth, if the feet are rubbish there is a cause - I never thought I'd be the person saying that but it's true.

How is he Star, I hope you don't end up at Liphook.
 
Sorry to hear of your problems star! Hope it resolves quickly.

Have to agree crap feet is not isolated to the TB breed. My farrier however say's similar to yours in that crap ground, wet then drying because of mud. all a bit of a nightmare. and No grass to help them grow!

My boy had terrible issues last year with balance in end we made decision to remove shows and turn away for 6mnths- 12 mnths depending on how he looked. He was just on Dr Green and his Pro Feet (NAF) and everything grew like wildfire. Feet like a different horse now and he is better physically for the break and rebalance through whole body. However I don't think that is immediate issue.

My farrier has a saying, only do what you can afford an time and cost. All very wellbuying the most expensive products but if you can only put on once week complete waste of time. better buying the cheapest and whacking it on every day!

Good old cornecresine (SP ??!!!) Effol or even the Silverfeet as that has antibacterial properties. Use one every day with a feed supplement (I know 4 horses with dier feet that have thrived off NAF Pro Feet) and you will see great changes

Hope all goes ok in next few days
 
Still lame. Still hot foot with a pulse. Hate the fact Liphook staff know me by sight. My horses have such rubbish luck. Looking like I'll be spending my week off sorting this out not getting ready to step up to BE100 at Larkhill onSunday.
 
Had a good look at leg tonight and there is now heat and swelling tracking up his leg to his knee so it must be an abscess. He's still only mildly lame though so god knows how long it's going to take to work it's way out. Farrier coming back tomorrow morning for third visit in 5days. Will get shoe off and tub and poultice like mad I guess. Might as well withdraw from Larkhill. Anyone want an entry to Ascott under Wychwood following Sat as chances ofus mamaking it there are also looking slim :-(
 
star said:
Anyone want an entry to Ascott under Wychwood following Sat as chances ofus mamaking it there are also looking slim :-(
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Me me me!!!! Was gutted to have missed the ballot date as waiting to see what happened with the weather/ground as needed to get out xc schooling and was then away for the ballot date. Feel bad taking advantage of your bad luck but would love to have the entry.

Fingers crossed that he makes a swift recovery.
 
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