Anyone built stabling without planning permission?

[Rowreach]

Just wary of paying a load of money out for it to be declined as by looked of it could cost £500 - £1000

It will cost you lot more in time, wasted money and stress if they make you take it down afterwards.

Planners are usually more than happy to give advice over the phone, and it's far better to get them on side in the first place than give them reason to go after you.

I worked for someone who built stables and a big barn, thinking it would be permissible as agricultural buildings, and then had years of strife getting retrospective PP. It completely scuppered him with the planners when he wanted to get PP for a dwelling. They turned it down several times and then sent him an enforcement notice to remove the caravan he was living in meantime. It was a horribly stressful and expensive time all round.

 

[claireandnadia]

Yard I was on previously had to take the stables down and have the school ripped up. We had a beautiful Olympic size arena - it was there when I put the horses out and gone when I went to bring them in. The owner also had a £27000 fine from the council I would imagine due to the stables being there and having liverys on the land that wasn't allowed.

 

[D66]

There are some common situations where permitted development may be restricted, ie in AONBs, conservation areas; also the council can limit PD rights where they think they may be abused. The gov website has a lot of detail but you need to understand how your council interpret the law. the easiest way is to either phone your council and ask the duty planner, (the one on duty to answer the phone). If you have time you can search the lists of planning applications in your area online (look for planning services on the council's website). Look for stables, equestrian facilities, manege etc, and then take note of the decision and read the planning officers report. You can also download application documents ie drawings, to see what detail has been provided to achieve a positive outcome.
Planners are not little hitlers, they are paid to process applications to protect you and me, and our environment.

 

[Hallo2012]

Yes it is.

In Cheshire, a friend of mine was told that she did not need planning consent to erect two stables and put a full size arena in 75% of her garden. She did that with no issues.

ditto, same area too!!!!!!

 

[Polos Mum]

It really depends on local council. In Lincs I built a massive eyesore block built 15 stable American barn in the middle of an empty field and 25 x 45 school - all with permission (which I did myself with a few pencil drawings) - inspector said basically build what I like in what I like !

My friend less than 5 miles away within the same year had all sorts of grief, only build in wood, overhand limited to prevent it being a covered yard - only own X acres so can only build X stables etc. etc. endless hassle
Totally no logic at all

 

[Theocat]

Planners are not little hitlers, they are paid to process applications to protect you and me, and our environment.

This.

I suspect the horse-hating planning departments got that way after one too many horse owners completely ignored planning rules and put stables up without permission...

 

[Cobbytype]

I had a stable built without pp within the curtilage of my home. It came within the permitted development rules, which I can't remember fully but there were/are height restrictions, it couldn't cover more than a percentage of the garden (50% I think?) and had to be a certain distance from the house (at least 15m I think). Your local authority, planning department should have all the information you require on their website.

 

[OldFogie]

It really depends on local council.....

Never a truer word(s). The same thing applies to whether you find a little hitler or a gemlike public servant - in my experience - plenty of the first and the last as rare as rockinghorse poo.

To wit, at the bottom of my garden here at OldFogie Villas, there's always been a shed, in the past there was a chicken run and pigsty on the same spot, taking up more or less the same amount of ground.
I've had various sheds and glory holes there since moving in and built one 7 x 4Mtr twenty years ago which I doubled over ten years ago, the extra I use as an office. Three years ago as the bitumen felt was past its best I thought - why not go the whole hog and fit roofing tiles? So I bought a job lot of secondhand ones and carefully preserved all the moss and lichens - lovely job, so you'd think.

Ah, but then I had not just one little hitler take an interest but an entire reich's worth!

They demanded that I put in for full planning permission (despite all the above) on the tenous basis that they'd had a complaint about me building an illegal leanto recently. If anyone had indeed complained, it was most likely to have originated from a development that wasn't there 20 years ago and for which the council granted themselves P.P. as they owned the land . Things took a serious tone with the full fi-fy-fo-fum being threatened.

Fortunately, I have a large collection of date stamped photographs which proved that my buildings were not "recent" leanto or otherwise but they still insisted on me applying for P.P. I think I might have said "ladies draws" at this point! I wrote a letter and hand delivered it to every house that could see my shed roofs, outlining the problem - I felt rather annoyed that anyone should complain to the council rather than have a word with me because I've gone out of my way to be accomodating to my enforced new "neighbours" by asking them what colour they'd prefer to look at - no skin off my nose really because I can't see the back of the buildings. My letter explained that as the roof tiles were such a big problem - I'd take 'em all off again and replace them with the most godawful looking mess I could manage to make waterproof, and further to that have the back of the structure graffitied - none of which needs P.P. I included hitler's phone number and email.

Though the council switchboard was jammed for a day and I'd obviously scored a few hits - the council escalated the dispute to Gruppenführer level and still demanded P.P. I then latched on to the fact that the housing they'd built was was previously allotments - years ago there wasn't all the "grow your own food" programmes on telly like there is now so most were overgrown and derelict - however; no one but no one can build on one. Allotment Gardens were supposed to recompense all us peasants for the Enclosures Act so I reminded my council that if I was to find five other people in the parish who wanted an allotment - they'd have to buy a suitable piece of land, about £1mill an acre around here - by Law!

Next, the council's solicitor - all £140k a year, wrote to me saying that they knew of no Law ( stupid is who stupid does!) two clicks on the InterWeb is all it took to download 67 pages of it. I also found out - from the council's own website!!! That the P.P. they'd given themselves was a utter fiddle, in that they'd circumvented the covenant about building on allotments by maintaining that the new houses were "extensions" to the little sheds each plotholder can put up for their gardening tools.

The council Chief Executive rang me at 22.30 the same day to ask "why was I doing this?" Er hmm - you put the ball in court - I'm just kicking it about!

I now have an Official Letter direct from his office to say that I don't need P.P. never needed P.P. and that they are all very sorry they ever bothered me. So victory is mine!!! But what a flipping performance. Surely to god they've better things to do - with MY MONEY!

 

[TwyfordM]

Off topic slightly but my OH has just applied for pre planning to turn his ground floor of his town centre shop turned into house, back into a shop. Just a simple change of use and its still unlikely to be a simple process. I wouldn't be building without PP or getting on planners bad side. If he's wary after working for 20+ years with planners I wouldn't want to mess around, just jump through the hoops

 

[Polos Mum]

You can fill in the planning forms yourself and draw the drawings yourself with a pencil and a ruler - no need for expensive architects so it's just the fees which are a few £hundred but nothing compared to the build cost.
When I did my planning permission myself the most complicated thing I had to do was go and take a photo of some existing post and rail fence and send it to them - because they weren't sure from my description (post and rail) what it would look like !

 

[ycbm]

This.

I suspect the horse-hating planning departments got that way after one too many horse owners completely ignored planning rules and put stables up without permission...

They also, and I think rightly, dislike open fields being fenced into tiny paddocks. It completely changes an area to be used for horses the way most people do it.

 

[Annieryan]

My friend had stables built at the end of the garden without pp. no problems at all he does live at the end of a lane that nobody goes down maybe that’s why they have got away with it. They have been up nearly 15 years now

 

[Hexx]

Someone in our village built stables in their back garden without PP and then had to request retrospective planning. There were a lot of objections it is a terrace of houses, so the stables is in the middle terrace garden, personally, I would have thought it would be denied because of the close proximity of the stables to other houses - however, it wasn't and they got full planning.

 

[OldNag]

What seems to work around this area, is join the Parish Council become a Councillor either just before you apply for planning or just after, when you get planning resign from Parish Council due to work commitments, health or lack of time to give it your all and then crack on building what you asked for. I'm amazed how often this happens....... when I was speaking to a farrier who is out of my area about planning he also said straight away people join the Parish Council as it works in his area too ........... shock, horror

I don't understand. Parish Councils do not grant or refuse permission. They merely comment and their view bears no more weight than a member of the public.

Also, any Councillor must declare an interest in any item being discussed. They then m have to leave the meeting while it is being discussed.

 

[ester]

There has been a lot of discussion about that here recently as there are massive plans for the village (I think it is due to at least double in size) and the land owners did join the parish council just before hand, and they haven't always declared an interest when they should have - there is quite a lot of different things going on but it is all connected.

 

[Rowreach]

I don't understand. Parish Councils do not grant or refuse permission. They merely comment and their view bears no more weight than a member of the public.

Also, any Councillor must declare an interest in any item being discussed. They then m have to leave the meeting while it is being discussed.

It used to be "join the Freemasons and you can get PP for anything".

 

[OldNag]

It used to be "join the Freemasons and you can get PP for anything".

Well I can only speak from my own experience as a Parish Councillor, where the Councillors definitely have no planning advantage whatsoever.

 

[Yubbie]

The Parish council has absolutely no powers to grant planning permission for anything, they can only submit observations ( which aren't taken that seriously anyway) its the District council that make the decision. Also you can't just 'join' the parish council, you have to wait for a casual vacancy to occur then you could be co-opted if existing members are in agreement or wait until all the parish is up for election & put yourself forward as a candidate & try and get people to vote for you!!!

 

[Cecile]

It used to be "join the Freemasons and you can get PP for anything".

My now deceased FIL was not only a mason but also a parish councillor, he not only obtained planning for most things he wanted, including a house, swimming pool and stable yard on some land he owned but a host of other things which possibly Joe Public wouldn't ever think possible, it happens

 

[Tiddlypom]

Well I can only speak from my own experience as a Parish Councillor, where the Councillors definitely have no planning advantage whatsoever.

Me too.

The PC can vote to support or to oppose an application, or to pass no comment. Any conflict of interest must be declared. The PC's views are theoretically noted by the planners, but the PC do not have any more powers than that to influence the outcome of the application. There were major ructions locally when a long standing Parish Councillor put in for a large solar farm on his dairy farm when he wanted to get out of milking. The whole community (bar one other councillor who was going to profit too) protested against the application including very strong representations from the PC. The solar farm was turned down initially and again on appeal.

OP, I fully with others that it simply isn't worth it to do without PP. It's pretty simple to put in an application, we did ours ourselves from drawings supplied by the stable manufacture, and it cost in the low 100's. You only need to get dibbed in by some neighbour or passer by and you could be made to pull any unauthorised development down.

 

[Cecile]

Well I can only speak from my own experience as a Parish Councillor, where the Councillors definitely have no planning advantage whatsoever.

I wasn't having a dig at you or all Parish Councillors - if you were an MP I doubt you would of been caught fiddling your expenses either but when that bit of news hit the newspapers I laughed as it was no surprise
Sometimes in life people are fully aware its not what you know but who you know that makes the biggest difference

Shenanigans is nothing new to this Country or any other

 

[Rowreach]

My now deceased FIL was not only a mason but also a parish councillor, he not only obtained planning for most things he wanted, including a house, swimming pool and stable yard on some land he owned but a host of other things which possibly Joe Public wouldn't ever think possible, it happens

It certainly did. My old boss was invited to join the Masons and basically told he would get his planning. Easy enough done if enough council members are Masons, or anything else. He had too much integrity for that, and turned them down.

 

[Cecile]

It certainly did. My old boss was invited to join the Masons and basically told he would get his planning. Easy enough done if enough council members are Masons, or anything else. He had too much integrity for that, and turned them down.

Good for him, I hope he got everything he wanted without having to belong to everything, I happen to approve of integrity and honesty but I quite recently watched someone join the Parish Council and get planning, then leave once they had it, do I blame them? Not at all as they aren't trying to build it on my property and it will not really effect anyone, live and let live I suppose but would I do it? Not a chance
I was told what would happen by a wise old bird so quite enjoyed watching the process

 

[ester]

The Parish council has absolutely no powers to grant planning permission for anything, they can only submit observations ( which aren't taken that seriously anyway) its the District council that make the decision. Also you can't just 'join' the parish council, you have to wait for a casual vacancy to occur then you could be co-opted if existing members are in agreement or wait until all the parish is up for election & put yourself forward as a candidate & try and get people to vote for you!!!

presumably spaces become available once one lot have got their planning permission?

Actually I think those I refer to joined in the last 'all up' election in 2014, there are elections again this year, I don't think some will be returning as there are now lots of cross people.

Even if it doesn't work the people wanting permission obviously still think it does, otherwise why would the three landowners who have apparently lived in the village for decades suddenly decide to join in the last five because they want the developers to get the permission to build 11000 homes (and a waste incinerator, and a new station in a new location) on their land... ? It's hard to believe with the timing that it was truely out of the sense of civic duty.

 

[OldFogie]

When an "incidental vacancy" occurred on the yard Parish Council, I checked out the criteria - over 21; sound mind & body; lived in the village for at least 4 years and interested in local affairs. I obtained an application form and the whole yard helped my mare fill it in - signed with a large hoofprint! A special addendum said that the applicant would bring some much needed Horsesense.
The rotten lot didn't even acknowledge her interest but a bit later on they sent a snotty letter about poo on the footpaths. Cheek.

 

[Cecile]

When an "incidental vacancy" occurred on the yard Parish Council, I checked out the criteria - over 21; sound mind & body; lived in the village for at least 4 years and interested in local affairs. I obtained an application form and the whole yard helped my mare fill it in - signed with a large hoofprint! A special addendum said that the applicant would bring some much needed Horsesense.
The rotten lot didn't even acknowledge her interest but a bit later on they sent a snotty letter about poo on the footpaths. Cheek.

Now your idea would amuse my sense of humour ^^
As an aside do people who apply to join the Parish Council in every area need to have lived in that area for 4 years or more? Or is that just your area criteria?

 

[ester]

over 21 is a bit ageist too

 

[charterline]

The rules are there for a reason... break them at your own peril, in fact i’d Find it rather amusing if someone came on here, and said the evil mean council had told them to take down stables that had no planning permission

 

[Gift Horse]

Never a truer word(s). The same thing applies to whether you find a little hitler or a gemlike public servant - in my experience - plenty of the first and the last as rare as rockinghorse poo.

To wit, at the bottom of my garden here at OldFogie Villas, there's always been a shed, in the past there was a chicken run and pigsty on the same spot, taking up more or less the same amount of ground.
I've had various sheds and glory holes there since moving in and built one 7 x 4Mtr twenty years ago which I doubled over ten years ago, the extra I use as an office. Three years ago as the bitumen felt was past its best I thought - why not go the whole hog and fit roofing tiles? So I bought a job lot of secondhand ones and carefully preserved all the moss and lichens - lovely job, so you'd think.

Ah, but then I had not just one little hitler take an interest but an entire reich's worth!

They demanded that I put in for full planning permission (despite all the above) on the tenous basis that they'd had a complaint about me building an illegal leanto recently. If anyone had indeed complained, it was most likely to have originated from a development that wasn't there 20 years ago and for which the council granted themselves P.P. as they owned the land . Things took a serious tone with the full fi-fy-fo-fum being threatened.

Fortunately, I have a large collection of date stamped photographs which proved that my buildings were not "recent" leanto or otherwise but they still insisted on me applying for P.P. I think I might have said "ladies draws" at this point! I wrote a letter and hand delivered it to every house that could see my shed roofs, outlining the problem - I felt rather annoyed that anyone should complain to the council rather than have a word with me because I've gone out of my way to be accomodating to my enforced new "neighbours" by asking them what colour they'd prefer to look at - no skin off my nose really because I can't see the back of the buildings. My letter explained that as the roof tiles were such a big problem - I'd take 'em all off again and replace them with the most godawful looking mess I could manage to make waterproof, and further to that have the back of the structure graffitied - none of which needs P.P. I included hitler's phone number and email.

Though the council switchboard was jammed for a day and I'd obviously scored a few hits - the council escalated the dispute to Gruppenführer level and still demanded P.P. I then latched on to the fact that the housing they'd built was was previously allotments - years ago there wasn't all the "grow your own food" programmes on telly like there is now so most were overgrown and derelict - however; no one but no one can build on one. Allotment Gardens were supposed to recompense all us peasants for the Enclosures Act so I reminded my council that if I was to find five other people in the parish who wanted an allotment - they'd have to buy a suitable piece of land, about £1mill an acre around here - by Law!

Next, the council's solicitor - all £140k a year, wrote to me saying that they knew of no Law ( stupid is who stupid does!) two clicks on the InterWeb is all it took to download 67 pages of it. I also found out - from the council's own website!!! That the P.P. they'd given themselves was a utter fiddle, in that they'd circumvented the covenant about building on allotments by maintaining that the new houses were "extensions" to the little sheds each plotholder can put up for their gardening tools.

The council Chief Executive rang me at 22.30 the same day to ask "why was I doing this?" Er hmm - you put the ball in court - I'm just kicking it about!

I now have an Official Letter direct from his office to say that I don't need P.P. never needed P.P. and that they are all very sorry they ever bothered me. So victory is mine!!! But what a flipping performance. Surely to god they've better things to do - with MY MONEY!

Good tale, I enjoyed reading this having had numerous run-ins with LPAs myself

 

[OldFogie]

Now your idea would amuse my sense of humour ^^
As an aside do people who apply to join the Parish Council in every area need to have lived in that area for 4 years or more? Or is that just your area criteria?

It was a great laugh and I think one appreciated across the species because Wondermare seemed quite intrigued by all the attention - especially the form "signing" with her offfore steered by several human helpers.

Not sure about the age thing but if you delve deep enough there usually is an age attainment for most official positions to avoid the possiblity of a faction putting a minor in post which obviously begs the question of influence. America has age stipulation for all public offices written up the their Constitution.

My mare lived in a parished area but five miles away I don't - it was put to a Referendum recently - and I lost that one too!