Anyone else been caught out by 'fictional' hay price rises?

Lisamd

Lisamd

Well-Known Member
Joined
6 September 2009
Messages
687
Location
Down the hill on the right
Visit site
Been at present yard for 16 years and have always bought hay off the farmer. This year he has cut twice as much hay as last year and the barn is bursting at the seams.

So he delivers hay and informs my mum that it has gone up by a whopping 25%. Bearing in mind he cuts it himself and does all the man handling of it from field to barn.

I was slightly annoyed that he spoke to my mum, as he knows i deal with all the finances.

Anyway i broached the subject just after he has delivered it, to which he answers that hay prices have gone up this year and it has cost him more. I pointed out that he made it himself and if anything last years should have been more expensive as it was sparser for us. He then goes on to say diesel prices have gone up and that was why the price has gone up. I said that 25% was way too much an increase for that reason, considering he has only moved it across 2 fields.

The conversation goes on and he starts to say that he works very hard to make the hay and feels that i don't appreciate that (he has cows and sheep on the farm who he also makes the hay for).

I then say that i will buy it in from another source as i have 5 horses in this winter and with the new price increase it will cost me a fortune and enquire as to why he didn't discuss the price increase back in the summer when it was made?

We agree eventually on a small increase, about 12% but i am still left feeling very angry about the situation. I have been there for 16 years, always paid a month in advance (in excess of £500 per month!) and don't cause any hassle and feel really victimised about it.

I learn later that the reason for the price increase is that he read an article in farmers weekly about the soaring prices of hay in some areas of the country, so now i feel like he has jusy done it to make more money from me! Strangely he hasn't mentioned it to the other livery who shares with me after my reaction...

Am i right to feel like i do?
 
Last edited:
Sorry but i dont think a 25% increase is unreasonable at all. Especially bearing in mind the cost of diesel now. Fertiliser, if he uses it has also gone up.

What you pay for livery and your behaviour as a tenant is entirely seperate to what he should charge you for supplying hay. TBH i think youve paniced because the price has gone up but he is totally within his rights to charge a 25% increase
 
Last edited:
teddyt said:
Sorry but i dont think a 25% increase is unreasonable at all. Especially bearing in mind the cost of diesel now. Fertiliser, if he uses it has also gone up.
Click to expand...
This ^^^^^ and tbh, if you don't like the price, you can always try to source it elsewhere... that's what I would have told you if you were negotiating the price with me in the same manner you did with your farmer.
 
Hay is a commodity like any other, and it's price is dictated by market forces, not just the actual manufacturing costs. TBH, why should the farmer justify his manufacturing costs to you?

If there is less hay on the market (and most farmers have had reduced yields) then the cost per bale will be higher. Why should your farmer sell to you for less than the market rate? And how can he know the market rate back in the summer before he knows the state of the market when you want to buy?

If you can find hay cheaper elsewhere then fair enough, but it doesn't sound to me like your attitude is entirely reasonable. Sorry if that's blunt.
 
Which IS extortionate.

I can quite see that some increase needs to be made to cover the increased cost of fertiliser and diesel, I think we can all understand that but hay in our area has also gone up nearly 50% this year and yeilds, dispite what many will tell you, are not down as much as rumour wuld lead you to believe. The quality is higher this year and many took a second cut.

Whilst I cant blame farmers for cashing in I do think there will come a point (as there has with shavings) where people just will not buy any more.

Give it until about feb when farmers barns are still bulging with this years unsold crop (because we have put our collective foot down) and hay will, all of a sudden, be £3 a bale once again.
 
If I am honest threads like this one make me very angry!

Next year go and buy or rent yourself a piece of land, fertilise it to make sure you get a reasonable growth rate, spray or pull any weeds and pray for some rain to make it all grow and then pray again in June that it stays dry enough to get it cut, turned and baled.

Find yourself a good contractor that wont put you at the back of his list when the good weather slot arrives as lots get their own hay done first or even better, go and buy yourself a tractor with plenty of diesel in and a cutter and then a turner and then a baler

Depending on choice, then either pay the contractor a large sum of money or somebody else to service the machinery yearly.

After that, go and rent yourself another building to store it all in and get a few friends together to manhandle it all in - after you have rented or bought a flatbed trailer to load it onto. It makes no difference how far it is being transported it still needs loading and unloading.

Then stack it in your barn and hope it stays dry and rodent free until you either use it or sell it and hope that it keeps nicely.

Then and only then will you understand the work that goes into producing a hay crop.

We make our own hay and our yield on our usual fields is down by half, this was due to the dry conditions that just did not make the grass grow, it was shorter and more sparse.

I am not being mean but I am sure that in the last few years you would expect your wages to rise, I am sure that everyday items such as groceries and petrol have risen as has your horse feed (I hope you have been to the feed merchant and told them that it is not acceptable) so why would you not expect your hay to go up.
 
Mrs_Wishkabibble said:
If I am honest threads like this one make me very angry!

Next year go and buy or rent yourself a piece of land, fertilise it to make sure you get a reasonable growth rate, spray or pull any weeds and pray for some rain to make it all grow and then pray again in June that it stays dry enough to get it cut, turned and baled.

Find yourself a good contractor that wont put you at the back of his list when the good weather slot arrives as lots get their own hay done first or even better, go and buy yourself a tractor with plenty of diesel in and a cutter and then a turner and then a baler

Depending on choice, then either pay the contractor a large sum of money or somebody else to service the machinery yearly.

After that, go and rent yourself another building to store it all in and get a few friends together to manhandle it all in - after you have rented or bought a flatbed trailer to load it onto. It makes no difference how far it is being transported it still needs loading and unloading.

Then stack it in your barn and hope it stays dry and rodent free until you either use it or sell it and hope that it keeps nicely.

Then and only then will you understand the work that goes into producing a hay crop.

We make our own hay and our yield on our usual fields is down by half, this was due to the dry conditions that just did not make the grass grow, it was shorter and more sparse.

I am not being mean but I am sure that in the last few years you would expect your wages to rise, I am sure that everyday items such as groceries and petrol have risen as has your horse feed (I hope you have been to the feed merchant and told them that it is not acceptable) so why would you not expect your hay to go up.
Click to expand...

If you could find a piece of land near me (London) to buy/rent to make my own own hay on, I would be amazed. To do this, would cost a zillion times more than buying hay at £6 per bale to feed one horse for a year :D

The more worrying aspect of all of this, is that people who can't afford it may simply not feed their horses adequately, and are we just going to see a lot more neglect cases in the future?
 
Last edited:
Mrs_Wishkabibble said:
If I am honest threads like this one make me very angry!

Next year go and buy or rent yourself a piece of land, fertilise it to make sure you get a reasonable growth rate, spray or pull any weeds and pray for some rain to make it all grow and then pray again in June that it stays dry enough to get it cut, turned and baled.

Find yourself a good contractor that wont put you at the back of his list when the good weather slot arrives as lots get their own hay done first or even better, go and buy yourself a tractor with plenty of diesel in and a cutter and then a turner and then a baler

Depending on choice, then either pay the contractor a large sum of money or somebody else to service the machinery yearly.

After that, go and rent yourself another building to store it all in and get a few friends together to manhandle it all in - after you have rented or bought a flatbed trailer to load it onto. It makes no difference how far it is being transported it still needs loading and unloading.

Then stack it in your barn and hope it stays dry and rodent free until you either use it or sell it and hope that it keeps nicely.

Then and only then will you understand the work that goes into producing a hay crop.

We make our own hay and our yield on our usual fields is down by half, this was due to the dry conditions that just did not make the grass grow, it was shorter and more sparse.

I am not being mean but I am sure that in the last few years you would expect your wages to rise, I am sure that everyday items such as groceries and petrol have risen as has your horse feed (I hope you have been to the feed merchant and told them that it is not acceptable) so why would you not expect your hay to go up.
Click to expand...

My feed merchant is putting up feed prices regularly and says it's partly due to the fact that horse owners will pay regardless and so we have to subsidise the farm feed side of the business as farmers simply will not pay inflated prices.
Ok, so everything goes up in price but not 25 % and I'm sure that any farmers buying in hay, silage etc will not be paying that much more this year.
 
Lisamd said:
Been at present yard for 16 years and have always bought hay off the farmer. This year he has cut twice as much hay as last year and the barn is bursting at the seams.

So he delivers hay and informs my mum that it has gone up by a whopping 25%. Bearing in mind he cuts it himself and does all the man handling of it from field to barn.

I was slightly annoyed that he spoke to my mum, as he knows i deal with all the finances.

Anyway i broached the subject just after he has delivered it, to which he answers that hay prices have gone up this year and it has cost him more. I pointed out that he made it himself and if anything last years should have been more expensive as it was sparser for us. He then goes on to say diesel prices have gone up and that was why the price has gone up. I said that 25% was way too much an increase for that reason, considering he has only moved it across 2 fields.

The conversation goes on and he starts to say that he works very hard to make the hay and feels that i don't appreciate that (he has cows and sheep on the farm who he also makes the hay for).

I then say that i will buy it in from another source as i have 5 horses in this winter and with the new price increase it will cost me a fortune and enquire as to why he didn't discuss the price increase back in the summer when it was made?

We agree eventually on a small increase, about 12% but i am still left feeling very angry about the situation. I have been there for 16 years, always paid a month in advance (in excess of £500 per month!) and don't cause any hassle and feel really victimised about it.

I learn later that the reason for the price increase is that he read an article in farmers weekly about the soaring prices of hay in some areas of the country, so now i feel like he has jusy done it to make more money from me! Strangely he hasn't mentioned it to the other livery who shares with me after my reaction...

Am i right to feel like i do?
Click to expand...

I suspect there are a few reasons why hay prices have shot up and not all due to a shortage.;) Whatever the reasons for his price hike, if you're not happy with his prices, vote with your feet & look elsewhere. :)
 
Firstly please don't feel so aggrieved, I would guess your hay has been the same price for maybe 6 or 7 years? Think about how much things have gone up in that time? Diesel 20% at least, his farm/land rent/rates will have gone up at least 2% per year. Is his time/labour cheaper now than it was? No probably not. I don't actually think some people realise what goes into making feed and bedding for livestock. I also can't believe that he has more yield this year when everybody I know across the country is well down because of the very dry spell meant there was hardly any growth for 6 - 8 weeks (my 9 acre field was 20% down on last years 1st crop, and the July/August wet spell put a stop to a 2nd cut!).
 
Whatever the reasons - it is just a market place. In most areas there are a choice of suppliers with a variation in prices. You buy what you want from who you want. If the prices round you are all higher then that is simply what the price is - just the same as any other product!
Why should we expect farmers to not react to market forces just like any other producer would? There is more demand for less product so the price goes up - is just the way the world works I'm afraid!
If you don't like the price you have been offered your hay at, then you either swallow it and buy it anyway, or you find a cheaper supplier. Though with hay as it is at the moment - I would wish you luck if you chose the later solution!
We are in glos and the prices have gone up alot - but it is very hard to source any hay at all so unless you are going to drive a lorry around the uk hunting out cheaper prices then it is just tough I'm afraid. Sadly it doesn't seem to stop the liveries on my yard lining all walkways with it (sigh!)!!
 
Mrs_Wishkabibble - having had a 10 acre hay field for 10 years (just moved) I couldnt agree with you more.

Its actually now cheaper for me to buy in than it was to take my own.

p.s - you also missed out the cost of rolling it!

People dont realise that it is an expensive year round job to get to a bale of hay!!
 
Im happy to accept that hay must be bought at a cost that gives the producer a profit. What I am NOT hapopy to acept is the profiteering going on at retail outlets. As I have said on a nother thread - a local merchant has gleefully stated that he might even get £10 a small bale by Christmas.

His attitude is the same every year and is infamous for having the same strategy when it comes to quality shavings. There is NOT a tree shortage and the french producers only have a two week summer break so it is NOT right to withold supply (when stuff is in stock) to enable him to offload shoddy shavings at sky high prices.

Vote with your feet people....if you dont want to pay the price at the retailler either challenge them on it or go elsewhere. Fair pricing fine....rip off....no thank you.
 
I have trouble comparing the cost of forage to bedding.

It's easy to switch from shavings to...well anything really. There are many, different types of bedding suitable to use for horses, and we are currently spending less on bedding now, than we did 5 years ago.

Forage is harder to change. If your trusted supplier has doubled their prices, there's often not a lot you can do, especially if all the suppliers have gone up by the same. First and foremost the quality is of the utmost importnce, and you need to be confident it has not been cut from a field which is covered in ragwort, etc.
 
We live on a farm and I really feel for the farmer. I can remember one day about a month ago he was out in the fields turning the hay. About 2 hours later we had a 5 minute almighty down pour and the poor guy had to start again! When he finally did get to bring it all in he was working from 5/6 in the morning through until 10 at night. I doubt they'd even scrape minimum wage if they sat and worked it out.

Playing devils advocate....If you knew you could get 25% more in a full, demanding market, would you do it? I certainly would. That's business.

I'm not directing this at you, but a general obervation of this whole hay business is that we should thank ourselves lucky the farmers aren't keeping what they have for their own animals. Where would we be then?!

A 25% rise probably means about 10/50p a bale more for the farmers pocket (minus expenses). It's not much is it?

I still have all my horses costs to pay for, it is something I was very well aware of (by aware I mean I know where my OHs wallet is and his PIN numbers) and have accepted it.
 
I quite agree Spans & LisaMD I have some sympathy.

You guys who wish us to have lots of sympathy for hay producers, actually I have sympathy for myself. If farmers don't like working the land for a living, they can do my job. It's probs no better or no worse than theirs, and I certainly don't make lots of money or set my own salary.

I appreciate that there may be a rise in prices, that seems fair. I appreciate that some years the harvest is poor and it will cause prices to rise. BUT this year farmers have been scaremongering and have fixed prices in some areas at double what they were last year.

My big bales hay went from £25 - £40 per bale - for the simple reason the farmer could get the money. My small bale hay went from £3.75 to £6.00.

It's market forces and everyone has to make money. But it's not good customer care, and please don't expect me to have lots of sympathy for the farmers. If they could make a profit at £3.50 per bale (which they could) then the only reaon to put the price up to £6.00 is cause they can - not because they will be destitute otherwise.
 
siennamum said:
I quite agree Spans & LisaMD I have some sympathy.

You guys who wish us to have lots of sympathy for hay producers, actually I have sympathy for myself. If farmers don't like working the land for a living, they can do my job. It's probs no better or no worse than theirs, and I certainly don't make lots of money or set my own salary.

I appreciate that there may be a rise in prices, that seems fair. I appreciate that some years the harvest is poor and it will cause prices to rise. BUT this year farmers have been scaremongering and have fixed prices in some areas at double what they were last year.

My big bales hay went from £25 - £40 per bale - for the simple reason the farmer could get the money. My small bale hay went from £3.75 to £6.00.

It's market forces and everyone has to make money. But it's not good customer care, and please don't expect me to have lots of sympathy for the farmers. If they could make a profit at £3.50 per bale (which they could) then the only reaon to put the price up to £6.00 is cause they can - not because they will be destitute otherwise.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I would have no problem paying if i felt that the 25% increase was a viable one. If this was the case, the other livery would have had the increase too. I anticipate they haven't because of my reaction and the farmers knowledge that it really hasn't cost that much more this year to produce than last year. If it was they case why did he negotiate when he could sell for that price and it appears more, to the open market??

I just found it hard to take as my horses are on a £1million+ farm, with shiney new vehicles and no sign of any hard times. I, like everyone else has had increases in shoeing, bedding, feed, insurance etc, but this just felt like the straw that broke tha camels back.
 
My YO sets aside a field (never grazed) which contractors come and cut for hay which produced 64 big bales of hay last year,

this year it has produced 14!

She has to pay per acre cut, so this stays the same no matter the yield and baling is slightly cheaper (less wrap)

Luckily she knows every farmer under the sun in our area and has managed to buy good quality hay to cover the shortfall for winter. she will lose any profit from selling us her own hay, will have to feed her own bought in hay and will not be able to charge us much extra for what has been bought in as it is so expensive anyway.

Im glad I don't have to make my own hay!
 
Lisamd said:
I just found it hard to take as my horses are on a £1million+ farm, with shiney new vehicles and no sign of any hard times. I, like everyone else has had increases in shoeing, bedding, feed, insurance etc, but this just felt like the straw that broke tha camels back.
Click to expand...

I'm quite sure that the shiny new vehicles and machinery are on finance, nice to hear that there are no signs of hard times...
Majority of large farms in this country are worth £1million+, it doesn't make making ends meet any easier, though...
 
Good grief, hay has been vastly underpriced for a long time, maybe you should be paying extra for all the cheap hay you have had!Just to mark time with inflation over the last 30 years ,hay needs to be at least £6 a bale.
 
We read in the press that horses are being abandoned or being sent to WWH or the RSPCA
as owners can no longer afford to keep their horses.
Maybe this is one of the many reasons why - feed and hay prices being put up out of all proportion.
I agree that farmers need to put prices up to stay in business.
However, I work in local government and havent had a pay increase for at least 3 yrs. I'm also paid an allowance for use of my car for work purposes which is being stopped at the end of this month, which gives me a pay cut of nearly £2k per anum. VAT will rise in January to 20%, and no doubt fuel prices will rise to an extortionate level. Its a shame that I cant put up my prices for the work that I do to cover the cost of living. Oh, yes, and I have the constant threat of losing my job.
We all have hardships, some more than others. At the end of the day, its the animals that will suffer.
 
Few things:
You can't expect farmers/feed producers etc to take care of your horses' welfare - that is none of their business, they supply a product.
Does it grate you as much that your £20 t-shirt costs about £0.50 to make? Surely, that is just greed not merely making a profit?
My old vet used to say ''If you can't/won't pay for your horse's feed, shoes or treatment, you can always buy a hamster - if push comes to shove, you bury the current one in the garden and get a shiny new one for a tenner''...
 
Might i just add...i won't be abandoning/selling/neglecting my horses because of this!

I might have been a bit more understanding if this was a legit run yard, that had to face the same increases and pay business rates etc. My cash paid livery goes straight in farmers pocket.

I am not complaining about the livery - hence why i have been a good, paying customer for the past 16 years - something that seems very uncommon in today's livery business.

I will continue to be the above until i need otherwise, was just asking a question.
 
martlin said:
Few things:
You can't expect farmers/feed producers etc to take care of your horses' welfare - that is none of their business, they supply a product.

Very true. And I dont think people do expect them to take care of their horse's welfare.

"Does it grate you as much that your £20 t-shirt costs about £0.50 to make? Surely, that is just greed not merely making a profit?"

Yes it does grate, and agree, its total greed and exploitation.

The point is, many people could easily afford to keep their horses a few years ago. And yes, maybe they had it good for a long time. However, the current feeling is with the huge hike in prices of feed and hay (and 25% is a huge price rise), people are understandably panicing and complaining.
Click to expand...
 
As a daughter of a dairy farmer with a livery yard attached I find this very annoying & frustrating.This is because it just makes me realise that joe public has not got a clue about what goes on in farming anymore. It is a way of life & you certainly dont do it for the money. If you it was for that reason then there wouldnt be any farmers left & then what would you do for food ( Human & animal) , hay or bedding?
look at this picture for every litre of milk (for example) that we produce we get paid roughly 22p, you pay how much in the supermarket. Do you complain about that? Do you complain when the price goes up? Well you may do but what can you do about it? That increase is not passed to us in fact quite often our price goes down.
OK hay may not be as short this year as the media would like to let you believe but it is short. This year we have had to increase the price of our hay to our liveries by 25p, which will probably been that for once we will actually break even by the time we take in the costs to make it.
I just wish that some people would actually look at what else they spend their money on & only provide what is nessecary for their horses & not have umteen different things that dont even get used. If they did that then any slight increase in feed prices would be covered. I bet you still buy your hard feeds even though they have gone up as well but you are not complaining so much about them.

Mike007 I agree with you that the price has been too low for a long time.

I am sorry for my rant but I just thought it needed to be said. :mad:
 
Lisamd said:
Been at present yard for 16 years and have always bought hay off the farmer. This year he has cut twice as much hay as last year and the barn is bursting at the seams.

So he delivers hay and informs my mum that it has gone up by a whopping 25%. Bearing in mind he cuts it himself and does all the man handling of it from field to barn.

I was slightly annoyed that he spoke to my mum, as he knows i deal with all the finances.

Anyway i broached the subject just after he has delivered it, to which he answers that hay prices have gone up this year and it has cost him more. I pointed out that he made it himself and if anything last years should have been more expensive as it was sparser for us. He then goes on to say diesel prices have gone up and that was why the price has gone up. I said that 25% was way too much an increase for that reason, considering he has only moved it across 2 fields.

The conversation goes on and he starts to say that he works very hard to make the hay and feels that i don't appreciate that (he has cows and sheep on the farm who he also makes the hay for).

I then say that i will buy it in from another source as i have 5 horses in this winter and with the new price increase it will cost me a fortune and enquire as to why he didn't discuss the price increase back in the summer when it was made?

We agree eventually on a small increase, about 12% but i am still left feeling very angry about the situation. I have been there for 16 years, always paid a month in advance (in excess of £500 per month!) and don't cause any hassle and feel really victimised about it.

I learn later that the reason for the price increase is that he read an article in farmers weekly about the soaring prices of hay in some areas of the country, so now i feel like he has jusy done it to make more money from me! Strangely he hasn't mentioned it to the other livery who shares with me after my reaction...

Am i right to feel like i do?
Click to expand...
there is nothing wrong with putting prices up but he should have told you in advance, so it could be your choice if you paid the new price or shopped round for alternative supply, farming is hard work but done right seems very profitable.. I understand how feel and its justifyed its his poor comunication skills or trying it on perhaps that is the problem!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top