Anyone else been caught out by 'fictional' hay price rises?

A farmer that I used to use told me that he only put his up as he found out that everyone else had put theres up. Of course it is up to him but I went else where.
 
Respeck for livestock farmers but we all know arable farmers only work a couple of months a year and spend the rest of the time filling in their forms for their Single Farm Payment :D. They charge you vast amounts of British pounds for straw, then charge you again for taking it away in the muck heap! Oh, and red diesel's gone up to well over 50p a litre!! <Ducks and runs back to the safety of my farm house>
 
I don't imagine farmers have it easy and I'm sure costs have to go up in price to keep in line with the rising cost of fuel etc.

For the rest of us prices have gone up, but what we earn actually doesn't. My salary has been about the same for 10 years or so and I expect it to stay so. The average wage is still about 19k. So arable farmers, have it hard - but they aren't the only ones.

Our local feed merchant sets prices according to what he thinks he can get away with charging. Our local farmers follow his lead.

I spoke to our neighbour, he had lots of good hay & doesn't usually sell any. He said we could have 100 bales @ £2.50 ea. He was happy about this price, he was making a profit at this price.

He then spoke to a few mates and 2 weeks later, came back denying all knowledge of his earlier price and demanding £4.00 per bale. It's his perogative but please don't tell me he wasn't making money at his original price. I am buying at a lower price from a new supplier, I am hoping a few people have hay in their barns later this winter which they will be forced to sell a lot cheaper than they are currently quoting.
 
I do agree that farmer's costs have gone up and in SOME parts of the country, hay yields have been poor compared to previous years. However, how many other businesses get the assistance from Europe that farmers do, can reclaim all their VAT on fuel, etc etc? Most have multiple income streams, often for doing nothing or next to nothing. In my part of the world, we had a fantastic second cut with rain and warmth coming at exactly the right time for perfect growing conditions, whereas normally the second cut is poor compared to the first, so I would expect things to have just balanced themselves out. Last year when there was a supposed hay shortage too, my mother in the southwest said that farmers were practically giving hay away, and certainly I saw adverts down there for bales at £2 each. I keep my horse on a farm and we can't understand why we pay the same for hay, haylage and straw which we barrow down from the barn ourselves, as the yards that the farmer delivers to!

Generally speaking, anything that says horse or equine in front of it costs half as much again - fact!

As for availability/price of shavings, I was told that they are simply a by-product of the house-building industry. No houses being built, no shavings produced.
 
siennamum said:
I quite agree Spans & LisaMD I have some sympathy.
I appreciate that there may be a rise in prices, that seems fair. I appreciate that some years the harvest is poor and it will cause prices to rise. BUT this year farmers have been scaremongering and have fixed prices in some areas at double what they were last year.

My big bales hay went from £25 - £40 per bale - for the simple reason the farmer could get the money. My small bale hay went from £3.75 to £6.00.
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If the yield is half the normal amount (or less in some places), which is what I see all over the place, genuinely, then why would the cost not go up by 100% ? That's just standing still, no more, for the farmer. Its not poor customer care, its continuing to make a hard earned living, same as their customers but with a lot more sweat.

Horse owners are also much more selective about quality than cattle farmers etc, which is as it should be but it means that supplying horse owners is a risky business for the farmer, it's got to be 100% ragwort free, few thistles etc, dry with no mould, nice colour, nice smell etc. Which is very hard to do in modern weather patterns. If the quality isnt right, all the fertiliser, diesel etc is money down the drain and I cant see the horse owners queueing up to pay for that.

If we want long term stable pricing for hay, we would have to commit to a number of years supply contract and that would include some of the downside for the unusable bales which currently we can ignore in the equation.

The farmers may not be paying so much of an increase but thats mainly cos they will take the less than beautiful bales which in a year like this make up the majority of a rubbish crop.
 
Mrs. W, that is a pretty neat summary of haymaking. Unless you do it yourselves you have no idea how stressful it is, no how much capital to buy and maintain the machinery is involved.

We are farmers and it is true that the hay crop is massively down. I keep looking at our bales and wonder if it will last out the winter, particularly if we have as much snow and frost as last year.

I would like to add that the EU gives subsidies to keep food prices down for consumers, or everyone would be paying a lot more for food. Over the past 5 yeras so many farmers would have given up as they were operating at a loss. The accountants think we are crazy.

Some farmers have branched out into other things, and good luck to them. Sheep and cattle numbers can be reduced if there is less feed available, but people keep the same number of horses. A bale of hay has been too cheap for years, considering the effort that goes into it.

Specialist hay makes would have made a second cut, but the rain came too late for the farmer with combining to get on with. Once the haymaking equipment is put away it doesn't come out again until next year.
 
fatpiggy said:
I do agree that farmer's costs have gone up and in SOME parts of the country, hay yields have been poor compared to previous years. However, how many other businesses get the assistance from Europe that farmers do, can reclaim all their VAT on fuel, etc etc? Most have multiple income streams, often for doing nothing or next to nothing. In my part of the world, we had a fantastic second cut with rain and warmth coming at exactly the right time for perfect growing conditions, whereas normally the second cut is poor compared to the first, so I would expect things to have just balanced themselves out. Last year when there was a supposed hay shortage too, my mother in the southwest said that farmers were practically giving hay away, and certainly I saw adverts down there for bales at £2 each. I keep my horse on a farm and we can't understand why we pay the same for hay, haylage and straw which we barrow down from the barn ourselves, as the yards that the farmer delivers to!

Generally speaking, anything that says horse or equine in front of it costs half as much again - fact!

As for availability/price of shavings, I was told that they are simply a by-product of the house-building industry. No houses being built, no shavings produced.
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Any VAT registered business can reclaim overpaid VAT, it's not exclusive to farmers.
The EU subsidy... I'm happy to give up mine if you are happy to pay for a steak what it actually costs to produce it and make a bit of profit on it.
 
Siennamum 19K? lucky those that get that!!!!!! Pay rise? whats that?

fatpiggy hay last year on Cornwall/Devon border was between £2 & £3 a bale but it depends on the quality.
This year its between £3 & £4. Also, there is no VAT on feeds but even if you take the VAT off the costings it is still a break even or a loss situation

lachlanandmarcus personally I think that the prices havent gone up by 100 percent is because most farmers find it hard to pass on that sort of price hike. We should be really.

Slightly foxed thanks for the vote of confidence!!!!! :)

Anyway at the end of the day everyone has to budget & if it means that a few luxuries have to go by the wayside then thats what happens. Most livestock farmers have to do that on a daily basis.
 
Lisamd said:
I just found it hard to take as my horses are on a £1million+ farm, with shiney new vehicles and no sign of any hard times.
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So because he has money that means he has to provide cheap hay when everywhere else has gone up? But hes not allowed to charge market price because he has a new tractor?


I, like everyone else has had increases in shoeing, bedding, feed, insurance etc, but this just felt like the straw that broke tha camels back.
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So the farmer is supposed to subsidise your hay cost? Why should the hay stay the same price if everything else has gone up?

Im sorry but i really dont get your point of view. other than you are now worrying about the additional cost of keep over the winter. As others have said, you have the option to look for a cheaper supplier for the same quality hay.

Youve obviously never had to make hay. I agree with mrs wishkabibble
 
When we ran a large agricultural contracting business we priced up how much it cost to make a bale of hay and reckoned about £1.80. You're all saying now that you're being ripped off BUT that was 10 yrs ago, diesal was about 20p/l, fertilizer about £100/t and labour probably about £6/hr. We had big shiney tractors and machinery and looked the business but like many farmers this was all on HP and we ran on a stonking great overdraft so don't judge a book by the cover. Personally i think many farmers have been undercharging for hay for a long time, many are quite unrealistic about costs, often not taking into consideration their labour or depreciation on machinery, land rent etc. What your property is worth is irrelevant, it often means a debt to match.
 
Hiya,
In respect to the diesel,
The farmer will have not have just used diesel to move hay,
He will have used it to:
harrow the land,
Roll the land
Fertilise the land
Cut the grass
Scraw out the grass (think that is what it's called , spread it out)
Turn the grass (maybe several times)
Row up the grass
Bale the grass
 
teddyt said:
Sorry but i dont think a 25% increase is unreasonable at all. Especially bearing in mind the cost of diesel now. Fertiliser, if he uses it has also gone up.

What you pay for livery and your behaviour as a tenant is entirely seperate to what he should charge you for supplying hay. TBH i think youve paniced because the price has gone up but he is totally within his rights to charge a 25% increase
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I completely agree with this, my other half cuts haylage down here for the local horsey riff raff :) and is a contractor for the other farmers, you would not believe the increase in his diesel and fertiliser costs. I'm really lucky that I do not have to pay for it, but I am shocked that he hasn't put his prices up more than he has, small bale haylage has, I am pretty sure they will go up soon, he has no choice, he takes a good deal of his time to make this when he could be being paid to work somewhere else and just walk away with the cash. He doesn't make a packet on the haylage as it is.
 
siennamum said:
I quite agree Spans & LisaMD I have some sympathy.

You guys who wish us to have lots of sympathy for hay producers, actually I have sympathy for myself. If farmers don't like working the land for a living, they can do my job. It's probs no better or no worse than theirs, and I certainly don't make lots of money or set my own salary.

I appreciate that there may be a rise in prices, that seems fair. I appreciate that some years the harvest is poor and it will cause prices to rise. BUT this year farmers have been scaremongering and have fixed prices in some areas at double what they were last year.

My big bales hay went from £25 - £40 per bale - for the simple reason the farmer could get the money. My small bale hay went from £3.75 to £6.00.

It's market forces and everyone has to make money. But it's not good customer care, and please don't expect me to have lots of sympathy for the farmers. If they could make a profit at £3.50 per bale (which they could) then the only reaon to put the price up to £6.00 is cause they can - not because they will be destitute otherwise.
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I am sure me and my partner would love for him to be doing your job, currently though he is in the barn fixing his forrager so he can go out and cut maize for people, were this a couple of months ago we would be talking about haylage, no maize! Farmers work bl00dy hard so we can feed our horses and yes the costs of deisel, fertilising fields, and servicing machinary have skyrocketed. It is tough that our wages haven't but there it is. If they do not make a profit then it is not worth their while and they just wont bother then we will have nothing to feed all winter. I am certain you would not want to do their job and many people just wouldn't be able to, they wouldn't have the dedication for the long hours. Our hay has already sold out and I can guarentee that the haylage will do the same. At the end of the day down here he as more work than he can take on, he doesn't need to prat around with hay and haylage for himself, and there is no profit at £3.50 beieve me I do the books!
 
I accept that farmers work hard etc but to my recollection, diesel was not much less last year so I do feel that a 25% is a bit steep. A yard that backs onto ours has also been told about a huge increase and half a dozen of them came to look at our yard for the winter! Some farmers have either baled enough or sourced enough to keep their yards through the winter without increasing prices by that much.
 
part of the problem is that hay prices have not kept pace with the price of making it, farmers selling to customers year after year try to keep the price similar each year, foolishly, so there is a lag and the diesel and fertiliser cost hit has finally come home to roost, and for some, having made some for their animals and selling the rest made sense. This year the same diesel cost produces much less yield to spread the costs across, and in many cases there is nothing to sell as it has to go to the livestock.

If it is also an opportunity some farmers are taking to get their prices to cost plus a reasonable margin, then I for one dont blame them given that many people have been getting it for well under the cost of production for years and years.

I dont sell hay or have a proper farm but make a bit of hay for our own use, the amount of work is huge and exhausting (especially loading and stacking it) at a busy time of the year. If I were to sell the precious stuff it wouldnt leave our place for less than £5 a bale, not even in a good year.

Farmers suffer like horse owners, every time they take hay and sell it they decrease the fertility of their own land. That has a hidden but real financial cost as it can only be easily replaced by bought in oil based fertilisers. And when the richest almost man in the word (Mittal of Mittal steel) bids billions and billions for a major fertiliser company, you know which way that market price will continue to head - Up.
 
We used to make our own haylage. It was very stressful - lots of work, in Spring to prepare the fields (rolling, harrowing, fertilising) and then later on the cutting, turning, rowing, baleing, wrapping, gathering, stacking etc. It was a lot of work, and all could be lost if the weather was bad! By the time we'd paid the farmers to do all this it wasn't much cheaper.

One of the problems at the moment is that people are panic buying, and the hay that is bought by a lot of stockists at auction is being bid up and up.

Another factor is that people keep their horses in for longer and longer periods. A lot of people won't turn horses out in bad weather, so end up feeding more hay. So there is more demand there too.

Our supplier's prices have gone up by 40%, but I don't blame him. I expect there are some that are profiting, but most aren't.

I bet that half of the people complaining would spend a fortune on top of the range rugs and riding wear for themselves with the right name on.
 
Yes but I don't think diesel in 1976 was £1.15 a litre! Having lived on a farm for the last three years I have seen for my own eyes the difference in the crops over the years. Whilst obviously I'd rather not pay £8 a bale I need to feed my ponies so I must pay it. I am sure that some people are going to make a profit out of the price increase but not most.
 
I believe they were cutting and baling the grass verges round here in 1976!

We're charging the same price as last year for our hay - £3 a bale.

For all of you who think arable farmers do nothing for half the year - when not haymaking or harvesting, my OH services and repairs all his machinery, repairs and maintains fencing and cuts hedges, amongst other things. He is also available to deliver hay to anyone who wants it at short notice! And why shouldn't he work a few less hours a day in the winter considering he doesn't get home 'til ten o'clock at night during harvesting.

Think of it this way - the less you pay us for our hay, the more tax credits we will be entitled to!! :p
 
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I find it strange that people who are interested in horses do not take an interest in noting weather related events which may have an impact on the growth of grass and the ability to get it in the barn in a dry state. I was driving round the farmers field with my trailer in June picking up hay here and there, as

1. It was apparant to anyone from May onwards that the lack of rain would restrict growth
2. It was also obvious that last year, certainly where I am, that the harsh winter meant some of the farmers themselves were caught short
3. It was obvious that yields were 30_40% down from last year in many places

Last year we paid €90 tonne , its now generally €160+ in bulk and €200+ in small quantities.

Anyone who only realises what is happening now, on the cusp ,of winter, has only got themselves to blame. It's a free market economy and if the farmers find we have a very mild winter they will be the ones stuck with lots of hay.
 
nativeponies said:
Hay off the field in 1976..also the hottest summer on record...was.............£0.90p per bale...

Do the maths........
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Umm yes but petrol was under £1 a GALLON (over 2 litres!) then and a loaf of bread was 10p, and that despite the Arab oil crisis period where supplies were short. And fertilisers are massively more expensive now (as in hundreds of percent more). In addition now we have to compete for land with biofuels and a much increased population demand for food.

The comparison doesnt stand up!
 
lachlanandmarcus said:
Umm yes but petrol was under £1 a GALLON (over 2 litres!) then and a loaf of bread was 10p, and that despite the Arab oil crisis period where supplies were short. And fertilisers are massively more expensive now (as in hundreds of percent more). In addition now we have to compete for land with biofuels and a much increased population demand for food.

The comparison doesnt stand up!
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I think you got the wrong end of the stick in Nativeponies' post :D
 
The price off hay this year is stupid, farmers are taking advantage. The farmers near me have also made as much as other years and are still charging £2.50 a bale and straw is the same price. The supplier I get from said they will not be putting their price up as they isn't a shortage in our area which there isn't. To pay £6 or £8 a bale is madness and the farmers are sat back laughing at people paying it.
 
This year, we did a bit of phoning around and I have some lovely big round bales of the best quality hay that cost us £17 a bale.....it is FABULOUS stuff and we have enough to get us right though the winter...the rest he is keeping stored for us undercover until we need it....

Did the same with feed, and went to bulk buy the first load after work last night....came home with CHANGE!!!! last night, and we bought a takeaway with it, and still had change!!!

You need to research your suppliers in future, worked for us! :D
 
Some one just wrote that hay making made little profit ??? why would you do it then. Of course it makes money no one would do it for little or no profit, and of course prices go up but if someone has been selling hay for say £3 a bale for years and made a tiny profit that is not the buyers problem.
Of course buyers are going to complain when prices double, if some areas have had a bad season it is not the rest of the countries fault. My area has bought in just a bit less than normal and prices have stayed the same as last year, but lets face it people from far away are not likely to come up here and ferry it back it would cost them the same as paying the high prices wanted in the shortage areas.
And I know of very few suppliers when they have a bumper year putting the price down at the begginning of the season, they wait untill the end when they look at all the hay left in the barns. I am very lucky and have natives and plenty of grass all year round so dont use more than 100 bales per winter, and I have used the same supplier for 15 years if he put his prices up I would know it was because it was required and genuine. But when his neighbouring farm put his prices up by double because he thought he could make a quick buck, this is called profiteering but if he gets away with it good luck to him, but I did hear he has only sold a small amount to his usual sales, and was going to put his prices down again to a more usual price.
 
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