martlin
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying haymaking doesn't bring profit, it does, just not even Minimum Wage TBH.
Anyone else been caught out by 'fictional' hay price rises?
- Thread starter Lisamd
- Start date
guido16
Well-Known Member
If people dont like the price of hay, buy a greenhouse and grow your bloomin own!
Why shouldnt they make a profit!!
Why shouldnt they make a profit!!
thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
This year, we did a bit of phoning around and I have some lovely big round bales of the best quality hay that cost us £17 a bale.....it is FABULOUS stuff and we have enough to get us right though the winter...the rest he is keeping stored for us undercover until we need it....
Did the same with feed, and went to bulk buy the first load after work last night....came home with CHANGE!!!! last night, and we bought a takeaway with it, and still had change!!!
You need to research your suppliers in future, worked for us!
I agree with this, if more people rung round researching and refusing to pay high prices than prices would have to come down. While people are paying £6 plus a bale the farmers will carry on charging it. And if you pay it this year, what about nxt year? They could push their luck and up prices again if people will pay it.
I know some people wouldn't have a choice but to pay it if they were desperate but I think people should start standing up now
thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
Love it !!! Lets not start the greenhouse lark again
yes why can't they make a profit but when hay has been £3 a bale and goes up double in price, it ain't good enough. But I have lovely farmers round my way bless them
gekko
Well-Known Member
Amazing to see the ignorance displayed by some...
Fertilizer alone has gone from $300 -$1200 a tonne in the last few years!
...and a tip guys....farmers don't farm cos of the money... the average income is much less than average and broken down to hourly rate we are talking cents! It's a love and lifestyle, not a living! If you want to make a small fortune out of farming, start with a large one!
...something to think about....you make widgets....you work out how much you spend on materials per widget.... add in how long it took you to make each one......add in all your costs... and go ok it cost us $4 per widget....so we add $1 for profit and sell them for $5 each...
now your a farmer... you buy/rent land and the gov sends you a rates bill each year..and the bank charges you interest... then you buy seed, fertilizer, machinery, deisel, chemicals etc so on and so on....all at price tags that you get no say in. You pay wages and workers comp etc...all at rates the government sets... and at the end of the year when you finish harvest the international market says we are paying $200 a tonne for wheat.... It cost you $230 a tonne to grow? without allowing a profit margin? Tough luck, The market is paying $200 a tonne. oh...and if you want to warehouse that grain in the hope prices will go up... you pay for that... 6 months later the price is $220/tonne-oh and by the way you owe us $24 a tonne in fees now....heres your $196!
Fertilizer alone has gone from $300 -$1200 a tonne in the last few years!
...and a tip guys....farmers don't farm cos of the money... the average income is much less than average and broken down to hourly rate we are talking cents! It's a love and lifestyle, not a living! If you want to make a small fortune out of farming, start with a large one!
...something to think about....you make widgets....you work out how much you spend on materials per widget.... add in how long it took you to make each one......add in all your costs... and go ok it cost us $4 per widget....so we add $1 for profit and sell them for $5 each...
now your a farmer... you buy/rent land and the gov sends you a rates bill each year..and the bank charges you interest... then you buy seed, fertilizer, machinery, deisel, chemicals etc so on and so on....all at price tags that you get no say in. You pay wages and workers comp etc...all at rates the government sets... and at the end of the year when you finish harvest the international market says we are paying $200 a tonne for wheat.... It cost you $230 a tonne to grow? without allowing a profit margin? Tough luck, The market is paying $200 a tonne. oh...and if you want to warehouse that grain in the hope prices will go up... you pay for that... 6 months later the price is $220/tonne-oh and by the way you owe us $24 a tonne in fees now....heres your $196!
lexiedhb
Well-Known Member
All the farmers I have known grow hay/haylage/silage for their own animals first and foremost, and any left over turns a VERY SMALL profit! Having been involved in hay making a few times, trust me you wouldnt be moaning about the price if you actually had to get out there and do the hard graft yourself!
If you dont wanna pay £8 a bale then dont pay it- simples- when its December, and you have run out of your £3 a bale hay, or your horse wont eat it because the quality is shocking, Im sure there will be a few who rethink.
If you dont wanna pay £8 a bale then dont pay it- simples- when its December, and you have run out of your £3 a bale hay, or your horse wont eat it because the quality is shocking, Im sure there will be a few who rethink.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
I started a thread about hay prices a while ago and was well and truely told off by most people for moaning about the huge price increase.
Its quite funny when some people are saying that its not right to complain about havig to pay 5-6 pounds a bale when they arebuying for 2.50.
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I'm going to upset you all now... I have my own hay, not enough though, so have been buying some in - £2.50 per bale delivered...
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Its quite funny when some people are saying that its not right to complain about havig to pay 5-6 pounds a bale when they arebuying for 2.50.
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I'm going to upset you all now... I have my own hay, not enough though, so have been buying some in - £2.50 per bale delivered...
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thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
I started a thread about hay prices a while ago and was well and truely told off by most people for moaning about the huge price increase.
Its quite funny when some people are saying that its not right to complain about havig to pay 5-6 pounds a bale when they arebuying for 2.50.
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I'm going to upset you all now... I have my own hay, not enough though, so have been buying some in - £2.50 per bale delivered...
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That's what I pay £2.50 delivered and it's lovely stuff. I have my years supple put back for me.
If with all the added costs etc how come the hay merchants in our area aren't going up either? And they do it for a living
TallyHo123
Well-Known Member
Have just had a notice put up at my yard, hay prices haven't changed for us. £25 for a large rectangle bale (They have never done small bales) The only thing which has changed is field livery has gone up £3 which is a strange amount ha! And ad-lib haylage is an extra £2 per week, they have said this is due to increased water prices.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
In the thread I started people were getting quite nasty with me saying things like I should not keep horses if i cant afford it etc etc, just because I had the nerve to question how much prices had gone up.
Lisamd
Well-Known Member
I agree.
I asked the simple question as to whether any people thought they were being charged a rate that didn't reflect their current hay situation in their area of the country.
So far this thread has stated that i shouldn't own horses if i can't afford to pay for them, implied that my horses may become some of the unwanted charity cases we sadly hear about everydayand suggested i trot off and buy my own land and make my own hay.
A simple question doesn't really need these responses - which i find quite alarming...especially when i haven't even stated what price i was/am now paying...there certainly would be egg on some posters faces if i did post the price, which i am not going to as this may rumble on forever!
I would like to thank everyone for their replies, some of which have been educational and very eye opening to the process of making a bale of hay and some of which have been a needless dig at horse owners trying to keep the costs relevant
Lakelandcross
Well-Known Member
Our usual supplier came to see us in June to warn us that hay was going to be expensive this year. He had started cutting and was only getting 40-45% as much off a field as he did last year (we could see this when we drove past some of his fields). He also told us about diesel and fertiliser price increases.
We usually buy off the field from him and have to store it ourselves but he has offered to store it (undercover) for us this year as we are paying so much. He will deliver it as/when we need it as long as we told him how much we wanted.
One of the other owners in our area told him they were not paying those prices and would get it elsewhere. They went back to him after a few weeks because they couldn't get it any cheaper anywhere else and he didn't tell them to get lost. He said he would see what he could spare.
He has always treated us fairly and adjusts his price downwards as well if he has a good yield.
Luckily for us, there is still a lot of grass left so we may not need the 22 round bales we had last year. We reserved some but he will be happy to have what we don't use.
Basically it is more than we've paid in the past but we're not being ripped off
We usually buy off the field from him and have to store it ourselves but he has offered to store it (undercover) for us this year as we are paying so much. He will deliver it as/when we need it as long as we told him how much we wanted.
One of the other owners in our area told him they were not paying those prices and would get it elsewhere. They went back to him after a few weeks because they couldn't get it any cheaper anywhere else and he didn't tell them to get lost. He said he would see what he could spare.
He has always treated us fairly and adjusts his price downwards as well if he has a good yield.
Luckily for us, there is still a lot of grass left so we may not need the 22 round bales we had last year. We reserved some but he will be happy to have what we don't use.
Basically it is more than we've paid in the past but we're not being ripped off
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MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
We've paid £1 more than usual this year per square bale - now £3.50 as opposed to £2.50. Used to get it for £2 per bale (when we helped bring it in from the field). £3.50 seems horrendous! But then again, they hay was delivered to us last week and they stacked it beautifully, store the rest of it for free in their barns until we need it and the hay is very very good quality.
guido16
Well-Known Member
What I dont understand (unless its a storage issue) is why do people buy small square bales instead of round bales?
It is a cheaper option.
It is a cheaper option.
*hic*
village idiot :D
Round bales are far harder to handle!
They make much more mess.
They are more difficult to store.
There is more waste.
When we have our own hay it's in round bales. Now I have large bought in rectangular haylage bales and they are even more difficult to handle but don't have the waste and mess.
They make much more mess.
They are more difficult to store.
There is more waste.
When we have our own hay it's in round bales. Now I have large bought in rectangular haylage bales and they are even more difficult to handle but don't have the waste and mess.
guido16
Well-Known Member
How do they have more waste?
I have always made/used round bales of hay and haylage. Not had any waste.
I agree they are more diffcult to initially handle but once they are in place, you dont have to move them.
I understand if it is a storage issue, just got me thinking, if folks are moaning about the cost of hay then surely its a cheaper option.
I have always made/used round bales of hay and haylage. Not had any waste.
I agree they are more diffcult to initially handle but once they are in place, you dont have to move them.
I understand if it is a storage issue, just got me thinking, if folks are moaning about the cost of hay then surely its a cheaper option.
Honey08
Waffled a lot!
Exactly. Its to store them. Haylage I can store outside in big bales, although it gets in the way! Hay I can only store in small bales...
Brandy
Well-Known Member
I know several people that make their own hay, and they have all had bumper crops this year. So if the hay is going up in price, at least say its because of fertilizer, diesel etc rather than becuase it once again has been 'such a bad year'
landy
Member
For those that dont understand the increase in prices i would just like to give my experience this year. We pay a contractor to make our haylage- big round bales. We pay per acre for fertilising, cutting, rowing up, etc and per bale for wrapping. We supply the wrap and fertiliser. If we have a good yield the price per bale is reduced because the costs per acre are divided by more bales. If we have a bad yield the cost per bale is increased because the costs per acre are divided by less bales.
Im in devon and this year not only was the yield per acre hugely down but about 9 acres wasnt even worth cutting. So last year we had 85 bales and i used them all but this year we've got 22! So each of those 22 bales has cost me much more to make (easily 25% more) and i also havnt got enough so i need to buy in more.
So its blatantly obvious to me that prices will rise because theres less forage about, the cost of making it has increased but the demand stays the same.
So from personal experience i dont think a 25% increase is unreasonable at all. That makes a £4 bale of hay £5, which i dont think is a p1ss take in the current year.
Im in devon and this year not only was the yield per acre hugely down but about 9 acres wasnt even worth cutting. So last year we had 85 bales and i used them all but this year we've got 22! So each of those 22 bales has cost me much more to make (easily 25% more) and i also havnt got enough so i need to buy in more.
So its blatantly obvious to me that prices will rise because theres less forage about, the cost of making it has increased but the demand stays the same.
So from personal experience i dont think a 25% increase is unreasonable at all. That makes a £4 bale of hay £5, which i dont think is a p1ss take in the current year.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
My point is that there are some people who agree that its ok for hay to have gone up in some cases by 3-4 pounds a bale and yet they are in the lucky position of only paying 2.50 or so a bale. That seems to be a little hypocritical in my mind.
guido16
Well-Known Member
Who?
I think the price increase is reasonable, I am not getting my hay cheaply. Infact, up here, the cost of straw is even more than hay.
There are a lot of fields with the straw still lying on it as it is to wet still.
Empy&Treacle
Well-Known Member
I do have sympathy that perhaps a 25% increase is a lot to swallow in one go; HOWEVER... Farmer's have to make a living!
The majority of us probably work in an office (or other of course), receive a steady income which is ours to do as we please with.
Farmers on the othe rhand have to work their land day in-day out, no days off, ridiculously long hours and very little to show for it all to provide the UK or other country with food, not to mention to feed their own precious stock; and on this occasion provide you with a nice yard to keep your horses at.
All machinery dies at some stage and you receive payments from the government (or similar) to allow you to afford to buy the new machinery to keep your livelihood afloat - I don't know any farmer who could go out and simply spend tens of thousands of pounds machinery without thinking about it.
Over the years he has been loyal to you and let you keep the horses there for however long. If he hasn't increased his hay prices for the last few years then his inflation has come all in one go - and fair enough... Nothing ever stays cheap.
I seem to remember the old "Supply and Demand" graph from business studies at school - and this is a prime example. Less supply, higher the demand and higher the price you can ask. At least with hay the bales haven't got smaller over time as well as the price increasing - unlike nearly all food products available from supermarkets
Horses are very expensive hobbies, and 5 must be a lot to put out for; however you have chosen to own 5 and with that comes the massive rise in all costs.
We either sit and bear it with horses or in fact life in general; or we do something about it. We've chosen to have horses after all... and to add to that, I wouldn't go in to the petrol station and barter with the sales guy becasue I'm not happy with the prices!
I am lucky - my lovely farmer only charges me £3 a bale... I would willingly pay more if and when he asked as he has been so good over the years.
PS - i'm not telling you where I get my hay from
The majority of us probably work in an office (or other of course), receive a steady income which is ours to do as we please with.
Farmers on the othe rhand have to work their land day in-day out, no days off, ridiculously long hours and very little to show for it all to provide the UK or other country with food, not to mention to feed their own precious stock; and on this occasion provide you with a nice yard to keep your horses at.
All machinery dies at some stage and you receive payments from the government (or similar) to allow you to afford to buy the new machinery to keep your livelihood afloat - I don't know any farmer who could go out and simply spend tens of thousands of pounds machinery without thinking about it.
Over the years he has been loyal to you and let you keep the horses there for however long. If he hasn't increased his hay prices for the last few years then his inflation has come all in one go - and fair enough... Nothing ever stays cheap.
I seem to remember the old "Supply and Demand" graph from business studies at school - and this is a prime example. Less supply, higher the demand and higher the price you can ask. At least with hay the bales haven't got smaller over time as well as the price increasing - unlike nearly all food products available from supermarkets
Horses are very expensive hobbies, and 5 must be a lot to put out for; however you have chosen to own 5 and with that comes the massive rise in all costs.
We either sit and bear it with horses or in fact life in general; or we do something about it. We've chosen to have horses after all... and to add to that, I wouldn't go in to the petrol station and barter with the sales guy becasue I'm not happy with the prices!
I am lucky - my lovely farmer only charges me £3 a bale... I would willingly pay more if and when he asked as he has been so good over the years.
PS - i'm not telling you where I get my hay from
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nativetyponies
Well-Known Member
of course it does..the cost of living is all comparative then as it is now...wages etc.
i think the price increase was inevitable..Horse owners have/are being subsidised for years...as horses wont eat just "any old hay" as cattle will..
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christi
Well-Known Member
I have used the same hay supplier for many many years .
for the last 5 years its been £3.95 per small bale , the years before i cant remember !
this year its £4.50 per small bale and its beautiful hay best ive seen in years you can smell it coming up my road .
my supplier delivers 200 bales to me every september and he has to drive a 120 mile round trip to my home , hes great .
previous years ..... 200 bales @ £3.95 was £790 delivered.
this year .......... 200 bales @ £4.50 was £900 delivered .
the farmers need to earn a living !
my 200 bales last me 1 full year as i keep my horse in overnight all the year round.
im Happy Happy ....
for the last 5 years its been £3.95 per small bale , the years before i cant remember !
this year its £4.50 per small bale and its beautiful hay best ive seen in years you can smell it coming up my road .
my supplier delivers 200 bales to me every september and he has to drive a 120 mile round trip to my home , hes great .
previous years ..... 200 bales @ £3.95 was £790 delivered.
this year .......... 200 bales @ £4.50 was £900 delivered .
the farmers need to earn a living !
my 200 bales last me 1 full year as i keep my horse in overnight all the year round.
im Happy Happy ....
Dubsie
Well-Known Member
OH is a vintage tractor owner and hobby hay maker - we cut and bale our fields and used to sell them (at £2 a bale, which frankly didn't cover more than his diesel to look after the fields). In November last year, having already sold most of our hay, we unexpectedly bought 2 ponies (we were going to buy in the spring). The 36 bales we had lasted till January, I managed to get some more via the hay supplier to a lady in our road by ordering it at Christmas when I realised if we got more snow our hay wouldn't last - which is what happened, but he isn't cheap and has the lightest bales. I also bought some in the Spring, a farmer advertised in the local paper as he was obviously clearing his barn (cheaper, and really heavy solid bales of lovely quality hay)
This year, instead of last year's 119 bales and enough grass to eat all summer, I've had to suppliment with hay most of the summer, and had to buy more hay before ours was cut - fortuantely managed to find another farmer had some just cut at £4.25 a bale and got 12 in the car, we only got 43 off our fields and nothing off next door (14 last year) it was frazzled to a cinder.
No hay supplier I've asked so far will supply us, as they're saving their hay for their regular customers, and being new owners we're not regular!
I'm hoping for a warm winter, and that I'll be able to rent a field to suppliment our grass! We have 29 bales at the moment, but grass is OK. Should last till at least Christmas anyway.
This year, instead of last year's 119 bales and enough grass to eat all summer, I've had to suppliment with hay most of the summer, and had to buy more hay before ours was cut - fortuantely managed to find another farmer had some just cut at £4.25 a bale and got 12 in the car, we only got 43 off our fields and nothing off next door (14 last year) it was frazzled to a cinder.
No hay supplier I've asked so far will supply us, as they're saving their hay for their regular customers, and being new owners we're not regular!
I'm hoping for a warm winter, and that I'll be able to rent a field to suppliment our grass! We have 29 bales at the moment, but grass is OK. Should last till at least Christmas anyway.
gummybear1
Member
I agree.
I asked the simple question as to whether any people thought they were being charged a rate that didn't reflect their current hay situation in their area of the country.
So far this thread has stated that i shouldn't own horses if i can't afford to pay for them, implied that my horses may become some of the unwanted charity cases we sadly hear about everydayand suggested i trot off and buy my own land and make my own hay.
A simple question doesn't really need these responses - which i find quite alarming...especially when i haven't even stated what price i was/am now paying...there certainly would be egg on some posters faces if i did post the price, which i am not going to as this may rumble on forever!
I would like to thank everyone for their replies, some of which have been educational and very eye opening to the process of making a bale of hay and some of which have been a needless dig at horse owners trying to keep the costs relevant
Personally I think that is what you said that has antagonised so many farmers. You implied that because your farmers had new tractors & an expensive farm they should not be allowed to put their prices up. This in itself made me feel that farmers owed you a living & that we should think about you first.
Being bought up on a dairy farm I have had first hand experience of what it is like to have to wait for things that other people wouldnt think twice about just letting their children have. But I dont begrudge anyone for that as farming is a way of life. Yes is is extremely hard work but can be very rewarding especially when it comes to livestock.
We have had to suppliment our income with a small livery yard & well it is an eye opener. Some liveries only want to come out once a day but only want to pay me £2 to bring their two horses in, feed & change rugs, well hello I think im worth a bit more than that & if you dont want to pay the going rate then do it yourself. Trouble is I dont say that but I also charge them more than that. Yet they are willing to go & spend £100 on a rug or go & buy a small haylage bale for £7/8 rather than feed them hay because they decided they needed"a treat".
Well I sorry but forage is about the only thing that farmers have left to price as they require. If we sell produce, ie milk or beef, we are given a price & we either take it or leave it. If we leave it then we dont have a business, if we take the price then at least we have some money coming in. Why is it that it is always the farmers fault? It was the media that started all this scare mongering in the first place.
Like someone else said put up with it or vote with your feet, its your choice.
Spottyappy
Well-Known Member
It's a right bitch fest here isn't it? I usually try and avoid these posts when they turn on the OP- mainly as I suspect the vast majority of the posters hide behind their Id's and wouldn't express such opinions face to face. Particually as the OP is expressing their own feelings, and just asking for a "general" feel about the post , not having themselves mauled publically.
However, I am going to wade in this time, and play Devil's advocat. My own supplier has NOT put his prices up this year inspite of a poor yield. I pay £4 a bale, delivered and stacked(with my help).It has been this price for about 3 years. I know the yield is down as I have seen the difference with my own eyes, over half of the barns he usually uses to store are empty. So, diesel HAS risen, employees wages HAVE risen, insurance HAS risen, machinery HAS depreciated. The farmer is running a business so is not going to sell bales at a loss.
But, besides a few hill farmers in the likes of Wales- I have NEVER met a "poor" in monetry terms farmer, however it is all about supply and demand. If people don't buy it, the prices will drop. End of!
However, I am going to wade in this time, and play Devil's advocat. My own supplier has NOT put his prices up this year inspite of a poor yield. I pay £4 a bale, delivered and stacked(with my help).It has been this price for about 3 years. I know the yield is down as I have seen the difference with my own eyes, over half of the barns he usually uses to store are empty. So, diesel HAS risen, employees wages HAVE risen, insurance HAS risen, machinery HAS depreciated. The farmer is running a business so is not going to sell bales at a loss.
But, besides a few hill farmers in the likes of Wales- I have NEVER met a "poor" in monetry terms farmer, however it is all about supply and demand. If people don't buy it, the prices will drop. End of!
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
Someone who posted that they are paying 2.50 a bale for hay but thinks its ok for prices to go up!
this was on another thread but just stuck in my mind as being hypocritical. like the op I started a thread a while ago about hay prices and was told off in no uncertain terms for having an opinion!
Lisamd
Well-Known Member
rosie fronfelen
Well-Known Member
As a daughter of a dairy farmer with a livery yard attached I find this very annoying & frustrating.This is because it just makes me realise that joe public has not got a clue about what goes on in farming anymore. It is a way of life & you certainly dont do it for the money. If you it was for that reason then there wouldnt be any farmers left & then what would you do for food ( Human & animal) , hay or bedding?
look at this picture for every litre of milk (for example) that we produce we get paid roughly 22p, you pay how much in the supermarket. Do you complain about that? Do you complain when the price goes up? Well you may do but what can you do about it? That increase is not passed to us in fact quite often our price goes down.
OK hay may not be as short this year as the media would like to let you believe but it is short. This year we have had to increase the price of our hay to our liveries by 25p, which will probably been that for once we will actually break even by the time we take in the costs to make it.
I just wish that some people would actually look at what else they spend their money on & only provide what is nessecary for their horses & not have umteen different things that dont even get used. If they did that then any slight increase in feed prices would be covered. I bet you still buy your hard feeds even though they have gone up as well but you are not complaining so much about them.
Mike007 I agree with you that the price has been too low for a long time.
I am sorry for my rant but I just thought it needed to be said.
----and you are quite right!