Anyone else got terrible lower leg position?

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acw295

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Am thoroughly depressed after tonight's lesson - not my RI's fault at all but arrggghhh just so frustrated :(

My lower leg has always been shocking and I just can't seem to improve it. I've been doing all the usual things for years (and I mean years) to try and help it but there is nothing doing. It is not helped by having a very wide but small mare (she is not at all fat but has the most enormous barrel shaped middle).

I know even good riders struggle to have good leg position on my pony as it is nigh high impossible to really wrap leg around her but even so, I feel very despondent. I just can't seem to use my legs at all without drawing them up and back and tensing and it looks just so terrible. I can sit there with them looking fine until I actually have to use them.

Has anyone ever successfully tackled this? (Please don't just say no stirrup work - this makes no difference at all after 4 years!!). Or do I just accept that as I don't fall off and usually have fun that it really doesn't matter a jot what my legs do??! :o
 
I regularly ride my share owners 16.2hh IDxTB mare - a big change from the Sect D X 14.2hh mare I share!! :o
my lower leg is AWFUL on the big girly. Her strides are so big that I find myself tipping forwards and thats what causes a lot of my wrong leg positions. I get her working forwards in a good trot then concentrate fully on sitting straight, shoulders relaxed and think about where my legs are and what they are doing. After a lot of trot work - rising, sitting and on circles so I have to move my legs to get her to bend - I find that my leg position is a lot more secure.
Have you tried having a lunge lesson? If you can ride so that you don't 'have to concentrate on the horse' too much if you see what I mean you can devote your full attention to your wandering legs! :)
K x
 
Have you had an instructor teach you with no stirrups for 4 years? If so its impossible not to improve unless they're not picking up on a problem with balance/ position. I'd also say ride bareback. Lots & lots. If you try to lift & tense your leg bareback you'll quickly realise you lose balance. Also, how schooled is your horse? If you can't get any response from her without lifting your leg she won't be helping, maybe getting her some schooling may help. And finally, the saddle. Whilst it may fit her, it might not be the best fit for your position. Sounds minor but can make a huge difference as to whether you can sit correctly in it.
 
Ride bareback!! I have been doing some work exp. at a lovely yard and I ride the horses there bareback :) I have only been 3/4 times and already I am getting told by people that my position in my share horse is a lot better :p I feel it has really helped me make the most of him too as he is working nicely :D
If your a little nervous to try bareback then you could always out a neck strap on
 
yes me! I had a lesson a week or so ago and it was very obvious! I ended up with knee rolls coming off my saddle, stirrups up two holes and having to practise standing up in my stirrups for as long as I can at walk and trot. It helped loads but I have to keep practising all the time.
 
My lower legs are ok.. its my heels - Im forever lifting them up which then tips me forward!... Just put my stirrups down a hole to see if that makes me lenghten my leg...
 
I have this problem on my cob, and for years to use my legs on him I have been doing this:
S7300718.jpg


However my new instructor has started to get me doing it differently and it is making a huge difference - I call it 'flapping'. We started by doing halt-walk transitions, lift your legs away from the saddle then drop them back on. Depending on how responsive your mare is you can either lift them away a little or a lot.
When your mare gets the hang of you using your legs this way you can lift them less and less, my boy now goes forwards when I lift my legs as opposed to when I drop them.

Hope this makes sense :)
 
BBH ur legs are like that because your stirrups are about 4 holes too short and your are being tipped onto your fork :o you never want to be lifting your legs away and flapping them about what a bizarre thing for a RI to suggest.

OP most of it will be down to your saddle and where the stirrup bar is, also how short your leathers are and overall position. Suggest you look for an enlightened equitation teacher near you who will fix this in a few weeks nevermind 4 yrs!!!
 
TT- that photo is about 4 years old so things have improved a lot since then :)

My instructor is certainly 'different' but he is effective and I am happy with the progress we have achieved over the last few weeks. I don't think I have explained it very well, I don't 'flap my legs about' I lift them away from the saddle then drop them back in the same place. I believe Princess Sparkle uses the same technique although I have a backwards thinking cob so I over exaggerated the movement a bit to start but he is reacting better to it so I don't have to anymore.
 
Me.. recently my lower leg has decided to do it's own thing.. it's awful.

I need to drop stirrups a couple of holes, stop tipping forward and get my leg back underneath me.

Easier said than done :rolleyes: .. have to do it though.

In my defence, I blame my saddle a little bit, my horse a little bit (can be stuffy) and my lack of 'proper' riding for several months (been hooning about falling into bad habits) ..

I *will* fix it though.
 
Thanks all for the comments, I was feeling very down about it last night but more positive today - have got it back in perspective!

Just to clarify a few things as realise my initial post wasn't very detailed - RI has been brilliant, she has really turned me and pony around over the past 4 years. Molly is very forward going, used to rush around with her head in the air and had an "upside down" neck. We've worked very hard at improving her without the use of gadgets (the RI's I had tried before wanted to force her head down and I refuse to do that). We've gone from 47% at Prelim to 61% and starting to think about schooling at Novice. She also now jumps normally instead of hurdling things at speed! We have tried lots of different approaches, not just stuck at one thing, it really isn't due to RI's lack of input or ideas.

Now pony going much better we are working much harder on me, RI says I have improved lots already -she is just now getting tougher. We haven't just done work without stirrups for 4 years, I only mentioned that as it seems to be the stock answer whenever I ask for advice on legs and it just isn't working for me!

Saddle - yes it isn't ideal for me as is 17 and really I need 17.5 but she can go no bigger and the stirrup position isn't ideal. I'd like a dressage version as well as the GP I have got but another saddle is not an option. She is very hard to fit and this is the only saddle that has not given her issues so I won't change that - I have to work with what I have.

My leg issue seems to be because of my hips - I can't open them out enough so I have tension there which makes me grip up. When I ride a narrower but taller horse it is much easier and my leg position much better. Somehow I need to get the hip to open up more I think - but I have some previous injuries that I see a chiro for regularly which I'm sure aren't helping - may ask chiro if she has any ideas.

To illustrate how wide in barrel pony is - remember the "legs away" exercise we did when we were kids? I literally can't do this on my pony, my legs do not open any wider than they are when in saddle. If I try and force it I have to grap pommel and am in cramping agony in the hip area. This is not good! :o

I wrestle with stirrup length - if I put them longer I lose them as I grip up when using leg. If I put them shorter they feel better but when leg is in right position they feel too short. Is rather a vicious circle at the moment.

I will try and find some pics to illustrate the terribleness
 
Broke_But_Happy said:
TT- that photo is about 4 years old so things have improved a lot since then :)

My instructor is certainly 'different' but he is effective and I am happy with the progress we have achieved over the last few weeks. I don't think I have explained it very well, I don't 'flap my legs about' I lift them away from the saddle then drop them back in the same place. I believe Princess Sparkle uses the same technique although I have a backwards thinking cob so I over exaggerated the movement a bit to start but he is reacting better to it so I don't have to anymore.
Click to expand...

We have done this exercise too! it is very good :)

Molly is very forward going - I dont need leg to get her forwards but she needs tons of leg for bend and to get her off my inside rein. Sometimes though to evade she ignores my leg completely and we've used this approach to get her back off my leg! :)
 
Have a look at heather moffetts new flexee saddles £350 stirrup bars in correct place. Half an inch length wise won't make any difference to ur position unless you sit on your pockets or have put on a lot of weight. It's all stirrup bar position and a wide angle not acute at the knee.
 
Have you tried doing exercises to open your hip when you are not in the saddle? Maybe some pilates or yoga would help with flexibility.

I do think that you need to persist with working with no stirrups, letting your leg hang long and loose from what you are saying about gripping, tension and balance. Bareback would help too. So would working out of the saddle, with your knees away from the saddle slightly and all your weight into your heels.

If when you are working without stirrups or bareback you are finding you are having to lift your leg to keep your horse forward then the horse needs to be more responsive. You should be able to give a squeeze with your calf that will keep your horse going, you should not need to dig your heel in. If the horse doesn't respond to light leg aids then a flick with the schooling whip is needed.
 
Kat said:
Have you tried doing exercises to open your hip when you are not in the saddle? Maybe some pilates or yoga would help with flexibility.

I do think that you need to persist with working with no stirrups, letting your leg hang long and loose from what you are saying about gripping, tension and balance. Bareback would help too. So would working out of the saddle, with your knees away from the saddle slightly and all your weight into your heels.

If when you are working without stirrups or bareback you are finding you are having to lift your leg to keep your horse forward then the horse needs to be more responsive. You should be able to give a squeeze with your calf that will keep your horse going, you should not need to dig your heel in. If the horse doesn't respond to light leg aids then a flick with the schooling whip is needed.
Click to expand...

I'll try the exercises out of the saddle definitely - but horse does not need to be more responsive. She is too responsive if anything, we've worked on stopping her shooting off my leg. Bareback and without stirrups really doesn't seem to do anything, just makes my hips hurt and tense more as she is so incredibly big and bouncy in trot :(

I don't need leg to get her forwards at all, but she needs lot of inside leg to get her into outside rein and off the inside and to help her bend. If I flicked with a schooling whip I'd end up in the next county - she is very whip shy and I rarely ride with one as she won't bend properly if I carry one as she moves away from it in a panic.

But no matter how much I try and use my inside calf my leg shoots up and back and I end up using my heel. Infuriating!! I think you're right that it is my hip that is causing it. My left side of pelvis is tilted back making my left leg shorter (chiro is working on this) will ask her at my next appointment for ideas on hip exercises.
 
I have this problem, too! What I have found helped the most was actually lengthening the stirrups a notch or two (as some previous posters have suggested). Also, if I imagine my legs wayyyyyy too far forward, they are actually nicely in the right position. I now have that position in my head and try to keep in it (doesn't always work, though!)

Also, 'The Classical Seat' by Sylvia Loch REALLY helped (little book, avilable off the internet)
 
Stirrups down a hole or two and legs away then placed back in correct position. My instructor did this with me every lesson (when I last ride a few months back on another barrel shaped animal) and my god did it hurt but I think your muscle memory won't help, you need to build up your muscles differently.

Can you borrow a dressage saddle for a bit Hun ? Have you any of the wedge stirrup treads? I used to use these and my god did they help
 
To be honest, if you've been doing no stirrup work for years and not seen a difference, I'd be switching to a new instructor. Even if just for a while. It's not that your current instructor is bad - it's just that everyone explains things slightly differently. I struggled with my heels for years, until my current instructor said that I should think of pushing my heels forwards rather than down. Suddenly it clicked. A change might bring a different wording that will help.

Echo the others - your saddle might not be helping. I know a beautiful dressage rider who's position, when in a wintec, falls apart.

Finally, it's also worth pointing out that everyone's body is different. Not everyone can manage to achieve a perfect position. You may have reduced flexibility in your calf muscles or something similar which is affecting this. Consider taking up something to improve muscle strength and flexibility and also your awareness of controlling all the muscles in your body, and it might make a difference. Pilates is the common one; personally I went with ballet and it has made me much more aware of keeping my hips open and level, which in turn has helped my riding.

Good luck! It's not easy to change habits, but you'll get there :)
 
Agree with all tigertail & may have said. It's hard to judge from one photo especially with your jacket in the way, but I really don't think that saddles doing you any favours. It looks as tho it would be almost impossible for you to have shoulder, hip, heel alignment with stirrups from where i'm guessing the bars are.
Could be a one off pic, but I think a lot of the problem could be your upper body. You appear to be tipping forward which is pushing your leg back to balance yourself. I think from here you'd benefit from working on your upper body strength in & out of the saddle to strengthen your position. If I was teaching you I'd have you on the lunge with no stirrups focusing on sitting deep & tall with no focus on your legs other than letting them hang loose until your upper body is secure enough to start correcting your leg. I'd also want you riding bareback for at least 20 mins a day, even if its just in walk at first.
In honesty tho I think you'll struggle until you get a saddle that helps, only way you could sit correctly in that one is no stirrups really.
 
I really would recommend an Enlightened Equitation Teacher. They are trained to look at the smallest of details in the rider, and really can solve even those well-established faults.

For me it was like a light-bulb moment, when suddenly everything came together and made sense. My horses have never gone better too!
 
Another suggestion that it might be your saddle...

I've been told time and time over how bad my lower leg is with my current horse, and despite lots of lessons and exercises they haven't improved the level I would ideally like. Recently, I had to ride another horse for a university project... people (and I!) were shocked at how still my legs suddenly were.

Unfortunatly some of them just don't help at all!
 
my leg position is dramatically better (although far far from perfect) a. from hunting (need good positiion to stay on haha) and b. from long boots ....

buy yourself some long boots - they need to be uncomfortably in the back of your knee when you first try them on - they will drop to become the right length - but - if you dont keep your heel down they will make themselves known in back of knee reminding you to lower heel. You dont need to spend a fortune although I have moutain horse boots - second hand off ebay about £65 (although not a mark on them)

It sounds simple, but it works !!!!

same theory applies elsewhere - I had whiplash and was dropping shoulder forward - to remind me to pull it back the physio put tape across my shoulder which pulled tight if I dropped it forward !!
 
Are your hips properly soft? I had massive groin strain after slipping and doing the splits at 16, continued riding, and it had pulled my hips out of allignment. The long muscle that goes from your hip bone over your hip joint was stiff as a board and would keep me up at night in agony.

I see an osteopath very regularly for my back and hips and now my hips can soften and I stopped gripping with my knees and inner thigh! Also- Lots of bare back hacking and cantering!! (use a neckstrap for balance!)
 
Thanks all for comments - will read and digest when I am home. A few more pics here taken at various times:

MKEC3.jpg


dressage2.jpg


MKEC7.jpg


The tipping forward I do when I am tense (I go foetal) - unfortunately the only pics I have are ones at shows when I am very tense, but it is much less of an issue when schooling although obviously I'm sure I do it a bit.

I do always ride in long boots though (and I already have MH ones) that get me inthe back of the knee as I have short legs so its not that!

Will have to do what I can within the saddle I have though - anyone with hard to fit natives will know that once you get a saddle that your horse likes and doesn't slip, cause her pain, can be altered to cope with her weight gain and loss and allows her shoulders to move you won't change it - even if it causes me to sit a bit wrong!

After my lesson yesterday my left side of pelvis is killing me - so will see what chiro suggests first as don't want to do anything to upset my existing issues.
 
Saddle looks pretty awful for your position, it looks as though it is trying to put you in a nasty chair seat, and the tipping/leg gripping is a result of that. I have ridden in one of these saddles and it was horrible, felt awful..... I bet that is part of the reason that you ride better on other horses.

I'd still suggest pilates, but i suspect that until you get a saddle with better alignment you will continue to struggle. Maybe PM Sbloom on here, she specialises in fitting rotund natives......
 
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