Anyone else not watching Crufts this year?

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lilyoftheincas

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I have decided against it after watching the documentary 'Pedigree Dogs Exposed', and especially after losing my beautiful flat coat to cancer aged only 6. IMO, I think that even the dogs that look perfectly healthy may have something wrong inside (eg flat coats with cancer). I have now completely changed my views about dogs in general, and in future I will opt for the rescue cross breed instead of the pedigree. Have currently got a gorgeous cross breed rescue dog who I adore. Just my opinion, does anyone else agree/differ? Would be interested in other people's opinions.
 
Shame you didnt watch it otherwise you would have heard that cross breeds are no healthier than pedigree, there was lots more but have to go as I want to watch the pastoral group.
 
The thing is if you buy a pedigree you know what your pup is going to look like and what sort of temperment. If you buy from a responsible breeder who health checks their breeding dogs you are more guaranteed to get a healthy dog. A lot of pedigree dogs are bred by byb and puppy farmers who are only in it for the money and would not waste their money on health testing the parents as their only interest is your money.

Some pedigree lines do have problems health wise so it pays to do your research.

At Crufts they were talking about cross breeds who will have had no health testing done and people are fooled into thinking they will be healthier which is not the case.

I am sorry to hear your dog died of cancer at a young age and I dont know whether it is prevelent in the breed, but cancer can be caused by all sorts of things food for example.
 
I am yet to meet a healthy long lived flatcoat although I'm sure they exist. I have one friend who has repeatedly put herself through heartbreak with flatcoats, they just dont seem to last, very sad.
DG is right, you are certainly under no guarantee of health in a x bred dog. Just suppose you get the unhealthy part of each breed in the mix? So for example you cross a breed predisposed to HD with a breed predisposed to heart trouble, you could well end up with a dog with heart problems and HD and of course its far less likely that a breeder producing a cross bred litter have done all the relevant health checks to produce dogs without problems, therefore the risk of health problems is actually higher.
 
Vizslak said:
I am yet to meet a healthy long lived flatcoat although I'm sure they exist. I have one friend who has repeatedly put herself through heartbreak with flatcoats, they just dont seem to last, very sad.
DG is right, you are certainly under no guarantee of health in a x bred dog. Just suppose you get the unhealthy part of each breed in the mix? So for example you cross a breed predisposed to HD with a breed predisposed to heart trouble, you could well end up with a dog with heart problems and HD and of course its far less likely that a breeder producing a cross bred litter have done all the relevant health checks to produce dogs without problems, therefore the risk of health problems is actually higher.[/QUOTE

Well said^^^^
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Are you talking more about so called designer crosses, first cross between breeds?? Our vets are now advising people at work that what they have been told by breeders is wrong, they are no healthier than a pedigree dog.

However proper Heinz 57's we hardly see any of!
 
lilyoftheincas said:
I have decided against it after watching the documentary 'Pedigree Dogs Exposed',
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As much as the problems do exist this was a rather biased program, hence I didn't watch the follow up "Pedigree Dogs Exposed 3 Years On". Of course it's not going to seem like the KC or the breeders are doing anything after 3yrs, you can't undo all that in such a short space of time. It works in generations which is actually not a fast process, I've had JRTs for 10yrs and am only on my 2nd gen.

Echo the above, if you go to a reputable breeder they've had all the health tests and know what is behind each line and which to not double up on or go too close on or to avoid completely.

Things like cancer, epilepsy and something milder like allergies aren't actually breed specific either. Our breed did a health survey and although a few things cropped up, it was actually the allergies that were most common, nothing major per se. The breed is actually quite a healthy one and generally makes it to 10-15 years of age, the two we lost were 13 and 14 both just shy of their next birthdays.

Crossbreeds only seem healthier because their health problems are unknown, it's like humans, nothing wrong with smoking in the 1920s because everyone did it - they didn't have the knowledge to be told other wise.

Although there's nothing wrong with a bog standard cross breed (NOT a designer) I'd have one.
 
The follow up programme was an improvement not as biased I thought. I was really pleased to hear prof crispin say tonight that f1 crosses could have as many problems as purebreds, hopefully the puppy buying public will take note and stop falling for the inaccurate sales talk.
 
Supertrooper said:
Are you talking more about so called designer crosses, first cross between breeds?? Our vets are now advising people at work that what they have been told by breeders is wrong, they are no healthier than a pedigree dog.

However proper Heinz 57's we hardly see any of!
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I have a first cross dog, but see what you mean. I ride a Heinz 57 horse though! :D
 
I am watching it - there's much more to crufts (and the televised programme) than just showing. How about all the cross breeds that are doing agility? What about the canine partners thing? Or the YKC grooming competition? In fact, there's so little about the actual showing that I find myself recording and speeding thru some bits I find boring (talking to all the trade stands for example - having been there and worked in stands - it's just a bit too much to bear watching it on telly) just to watch the two segments of showing. And they do address health issues as highlighted by the program the other week. They want to address the issue with puppy farming and so on.
 
PucciNPoni said:
I am watching it - there's much more to crufts (and the televised programme) than just showing. How about all the cross breeds that are doing agility? What about the canine partners thing? Or the YKC grooming competition? In fact, there's so little about the actual showing that I find myself recording and speeding thru some bits I find boring (talking to all the trade stands for example - having been there and worked in stands - it's just a bit too much to bear watching it on telly) just to watch the two segments of showing. And they do address health issues as highlighted by the program the other week. They want to address the issue with puppy farming and so on.
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Very good point! The displays are always really good :)
 
I also think that it is very commendable that they have disqualified the BOB of 5 breeds so that they did not enter the group judging as they didn't pass independent vet checks. I hope that this is not just a publicity thing and that they are taking it up at a deeper level with the breed societies involved so that all breeders alter their breeding programmes.

They should really stop these dogs from getting this far in the showing world - they must have won under many judges before getting to Crufts BOB. Judges will need educating and breeders will then stop breeding extreme examples because they won't win.

This is a massive step in the right direction though IMO.
 
Crufts is a money making machine. As with all showing, from mice to horses it's all about kudos. People will go to great lengths to achieve kudos and that sort of attention can become addictive to them regardless of the damage caused to their chosen breed. I don't believe the hype, after showing there as a young girl I had my eyes well and truly opened by some of the exhibitors and the judges. I hated it, the dog hated it, the falseness and disregard for their dogs repulsed me.
 
blazingsaddles said:
Crufts is a money making machine.
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money making for who? I certainly doesnt pay out to the exhibitors. Prize money is virtually none existent so NO-ONE goes into dog showing to win money! Breeding isnt a money maker either, puppy are darn expensive to rear well.


I will add that we had a beautiful Springer cross Collie who was a result of two working farm dogs having an incognito one night stand.
She died of a stroke aged 14 and during her life had been diagnosed with bone cancer, multiple lipomas, cataracts and arthritis. Whilst she was the best temperament dog i have ever met she by no means had crossbreed vigor - she seemed just as susceptible to illness and disease as any dog, be it pedigree or not.
 
I don't like Crufts, I never stated that I didn't like pedigree dogs. I also didn't state that the exhibitors are in it for the money, the kudos, yes. Prize money may be poor, but if a dog wins at Crufts, stud fees go up. We've all seen the adverts stating bitch/sire Crufts champion and the price tags to match.
 
blazingsaddles said:
I don't like Crufts, I never stated that I didn't like pedigree dogs. I also didn't state that the exhibitors are in it for the money, the kudos, yes. Prize money may be poor, but if a dog wins at Crufts, stud fees go up. We've all seen the adverts stating bitch/sire Crufts champion and the price tags to match.
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do you have any experience of the dog showing world? Winning BOB at crufts is no different in reality to winning BOB at any other championship show of which there are many every year.

Also i have never known of any instance when stud prices went up due to winning at Crufts. Stud fees are normally the the price a pup will sell for, ad being sired by crufts winners does not automatically increase the price you can charge for your pups.
My dog was sired by a multiple crufts BOB winner but he was cheaper than my bitch (of same breed) who hadnt a Show Champion in her immediate parentage.

Crufts is high profile in the public eye, hence why people think it is the most important show each year but I dont think it is. I put as much weight on the other Champ shows i attend as i do on Crufts. It is only special because of all the other stuff going on and the fab trade stands etc.

But that is just my opinion, others may have a different view (of which i respect :) )
 
I showed my long departed Whippet at Crufts. He had a CC which I can't take the credit for, his breeder achieved that! As I stated earlier, I, nor he, enjoyed the experience. After he died, I got into lurcher showing for several years which I enjoyed , but then that too got increasingly bitchy and facey and to be frank, the credentials of some of the judges used, left a lot to be desired.:)
 
I've no great love for Crufts but it is just another show, albeit a very big one, some of us are out every weekend showing or trialling or doing some sort of activity with our dogs, it just isn't broadcast on such a large scale. You like showing or you don't.
There are egos, personalities, personality clashes, corruption, dodgy dealers, shortcuts to success, nice people, super people, in any hobby, especially where money is involved.
One can moan about it from the sidelines or try and change things.
 
I took my veteran Borzoi bitch for Discover Dogs. Two years since she has been and she was thrilled to be going out and then overjoyed when she realised we were at the NEC. The walk past the lake is unmistakable.
She was always difficult to show as rather than the elegant, graceful long striding hound she was more a thing on a spring and full of exuberance but she is used to wheelchairs, children & an ideal DD exhibit.
If a dog doesn't like showing it is foolish to campaign it but some really relish the attention. There can be much more money in lurcher shows than at any KC show.
 
s4sugar said:
I took my veteran Borzoi bitch for Discover Dogs. Two years since she has been and she was thrilled to be going out and then overjoyed when she realised we were at the NEC. The walk past the lake is unmistakable.
She was always difficult to show as rather than the elegant, graceful long striding hound she was more a thing on a spring and full of exuberance but she is used to wheelchairs, children & an ideal DD exhibit.
If a dog doesn't like showing it is foolish to campaign it but some really relish the attention. There can be much more money in lurcher shows than at any KC show.
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There are some lurcher shows that give a small amount of prizewinning money but they are few and far between, you are more likely to receive a bag of dog food instead. So, I doubt anybody goes home on a profit. But, of course, if your dog has won a prestigious show then demand for his or her services goes up.
 
CaveCanem said:
I've no great love for Crufts but it is just another show, albeit a very big one, some of us are out every weekend showing or trialling or doing some sort of activity with our dogs, it just isn't broadcast on such a large scale. You like showing or you don't.
There are egos, personalities, personality clashes, corruption, dodgy dealers, shortcuts to success, nice people, super people, in any hobby, especially where money is involved.
One can moan about it from the sidelines or try and change things.
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I've got better things to do in my life , like spend my time with my dogs in an enjoyable way than waste it spending time with people who think that the be all and end all of life is winning a red rosette (the yellows and blues get thrown in the bin). No, I shall carry of giving an opinion (or moaning) than try and change a system that brings out the worse in some people.
 
Wow, you must have been to some really crappy shows. I don't really like showing any more but I do help organise (and what a thankless task that can be :p)
I have never thrown a rosette in the bin. I still have a third place in junior handling from 1984 :p
 
CaveCanem said:
Wow, you must have been to some really crappy shows. I don't really like showing any more but I do help organise (and what a thankless task that can be :p)
I have never thrown a rosette in the bin. I still have a third place in junior handling from 1984 :p
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I have witnessed rosettes being thrown away in the ring if they're not red! Just puts a sour taste on things. You go out for the day, hoping for a pleasant time and you witness that and other unsportmanlike behaviour. No thanks, I still enjoy my dogs whether I show or not and they couldn't care less if they're paraded round the ring. MIL still shows regularly and some of the stories!:eek:
 
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