Anyone Else Rather Sick of It?

[QueenOfCadence]

Sorry for the rant... but here goes... I'm so sick of "natural horsemanship" supporters downing anyone who rides with a bit, whoever's horse is shod, whoever rides with a saddle which has a tree and whoever doesn't let their horses sleep out (I know it's not all of you NH supporters, but the extremists instead)

I recently posted a pic of my golden boy in a South African forum over run by NH extremists and nearly got beheaded for riding my boy in a flash, I've also received a hell of a lot of problems for riding my horse in a bit because it's apparently abusive and by riding bitted I clearly don't care about my horse's well being

I also WONT let my horse live out 24/7, I live in South Africa and it's impractical (as we have VERY bad lightening storms, often in the middle of the night) and my boy is shod (because he is naturally pigeon toed and if he weren't correctively shod the angle of his feet would put pressure on his joints), so he would act as a lightening rod - I'm also not prepared to let the legions of bugs we have eat him in his sleep

I seriously do not understand the mentality. Here's the type of comments I recieved TODAY for riding with a flash (some words tweaked as to keep the identity of the person who posted it anonymous - though I wish I could name and shame):

"why would you ride such a handsome and clearly obedient pony in a restrictive flash? Do you know how it interrupts his respiration and how uncomfortable it must be for him???? Don't you care about how your horse feels or only about how many rosettes you can hang on your wall? I honestly feel sorry for your horse"

Am I the only one getting these remarks or have any of you experienced them before? Or is it maybe just a South African thing (as I have seen some other people being hounded by the NH Nazis )?

As for the very pro-NH people here, please know this isn't directed at you but rather those among you who bash anyone who doesn't share your views

So tired of all this judging and bitching in the Equestrian world

 

[team barney]

Don't take any notice, they probably ride in rope halters which are far from gentle, they are positively barbaric in anything but the softest of hands and can and often do cause far more pain than a flash noseband!

 

[amandap]

Good to get it out.

Tbh, there are a lot of NH despisers who are very,very anti bits etc. Think yourself lucky you're not 'piggy in the middle'.

 

[maggiesmum]

Sadly I have discovered that in their quest to be open minded many horse people only succeed in becoming more narrow minded.
What starts out as a journey into NH turns into their way or the highway!

I'll be honest i'm not a great fan of flash nosebands but hey if it works for you and your horse is happy and healthy what does it matter to me, people who interfere usually lead very boring lives and have bugger all to do - smile sweetly, ignore them and carry on.

 

[Shantara]

In all honesty, I would love is everyone could ride bitless and saddleless...galloping across open fields into the sunset on a horse that would never ever think of spooking or tanking off...but that's just a nice dream world I go to when I'm upset.

I ride with a bit, saddle with a tree and carry a whip (Try not to use it, but heyho, sometimes needs must)

I'll all for natural horsemanship to a point, but after watching anti-bit videos and even anti-riding videos...some of it is stupid.
(Not getting at anti-bit people, but some of those videos are crazy! One even said you'd kill your horse if you rode in one LOL!)

 

[QueenOfCadence]

Here's the photo I posted (some of you might recognize it because I have posted it on here before to show off my handsome boy):

I don't personally think it's an offensive photo. His noseband isn't wrenched shut and I always check it (I like to be able to get a finger or two underneath it, so that I know it isn't going to cause him discomfort). It's loose enough for him to actually still be able to munch grass while he's wearing it

Maybe I'm just being over sensitive but I hate being told that I'm not doing the absolute best for my horse

 

[Puzzles]

There are idiots in every branch or horsemanship, be it traditional, NH or otherwise. It's a shame that some people give the whole group a bad name. I am more NH-orientated, but whatever people think and believe, the whole point is for a healthy, happy horse. If that's what you have then hats off to you! It always depends on the individual horse - whether people like it or not (even I am only just coming round to it) some horses genuinely really do enjoy being stabled, and some genuinely really do feel more supported and comfortable in a flash. Not everyone is able to give 24/7 turnout etc but we all do our best. You're obviously doing the best you can for your horse. Chin up

 

[Ruto]

I would love nothing more to have my pony bitless. But tried it and it just didn't work for us! She also gets ridden in a grackle and sometimes flash, I'd rather have her with just a nose band but she knows how to evade the bit when she's not got her grackle/flash on therefor I end up with more or less no control. If bits were that bad and horses found them so painful then large animal like that wouldn't allow it near them.

 

[Flicker]

OP, I am South African and I totally agree with everything you say. We kept our horses just outside J H B, and ours slept in every night because of the horse sickness midges, the thunderstorms and the fact that the grazing was so poor that we needed to supplement it with teff and extra feed. In summer, we even brought them in during the day to get them out of the heat, shock horror!!! I did flat work in a snaffle with a drop nose band and jumped in a Pelham.

Sounds like you had the misfortune to post on a forum controlled by the NH mafia - I am sure that there are many 'traditional' riders out there too.

Where in SA are you based, just out of interest? I miss it so much sometimes: the off road outrides, the clear and still winter days, not having everything wet all the time...

 

[Flicker]

PS the pic is lovely!

 

[Ibblebibble]

i don't like evangelical followers of any description, be they of the NH bitless, treeless, shoeless type or the gadget crazy strap 'em up brigade if people can't see that all horses and riders are different and require different methods/equipment etc then those people are really not worth listening to
I'm one of the 'try anything brigade' lol, i ride my barefoot horses in treed saddles and all manner of bit/bridle combinations

 

[soloequestrian]

my boy is shod (because he is naturally pigeon toed and if he weren't correctively shod the angle of his feet would put pressure on his joints)

Um, sorry, I know this isn't what you were after, but this doesn't make sense....

 

[QueenOfCadence]

I'm in PTA east ! It really just isn't practical to have horses out in SA 24/7... It reached 40 degrees celcius here not too long ago and the horses HAD to be brought in early as well... The worst part about the SA NH Nazis is that it always seems to be the same people causing fights with their cattiness. So tired of it because it COMPLETELY puts me off of having anything to do with anything NH orientated

 

[QueenOfCadence]

Um, sorry, I know this isn't what you were after, but this doesn't make sense....

Solo his feet turn in, A LOT naturally. With the correct farriery it improves A LOT, without the correct shoes/trimming the joints in his forelegs are put under pressure (as his legs start to turn in with his hooves). I'll try to find a photie of when we just got him (before the proper shoeing) so that you can see what I mean

 

[amandap]

The worst part about the SA NH Nazis is that it always seems to be the same people causing fights with their cattiness. So tired of it because it COMPLETELY puts me off of having anything to do with anything NH orientated

This is what is such a shame with very judgemental people it just puts people off every aspect!

I was born in SA, perhaps best I've never been as an adult by the sound of it.

 

[Flicker]

I'm in PTA east ! It really just isn't practical to have horses out in SA 24/7... It reached 40 degrees celcius here not too long ago and the horses HAD to be brought in early as well... The worst part about the SA NH Nazis is that it always seems to be the same people causing fights with their cattiness. So tired of it because it COMPLETELY puts me off of having anything to do with anything NH orientated

If your NH lot are anything like the NH lot where I am, I wouldn't bother... Yeah, totally get you - those Highveld summers are brutal! And my friend's horse has pigeon toes and is correctively shod for it.

Sounds like you are doing everything right by yours lovely horse

 

[soloequestrian]

Solo his feet turn in, A LOT naturally. With the correct farriery it improves A LOT, without the correct shoes/trimming the joints in his forelegs are put under pressure (as his legs start to turn in with his hooves). I'll try to find a photie of when we just got him (before the proper shoeing) so that you can see what I mean

But that's back to front - the leg and the angles of the joints are fixed, assuming your horse is an adult, so to have correct and even pressure through the joints, the foot has to match them (shod or unshod). If you shoe to 'correct', you get uneven concussive forces through the joints which will lead to arthritis in the long term. One of the best ways to get the perfect hoof FOR THAT LEG (as opposed to the perfect textbook hoof) is to allow the horse to wear its feet the way it needs to ie a bare foot with lots of work on harder surfaces. It's possible to achieve this with a shoe on, but very very difficult. It sounds as though your horse is being shod so that it's legs look straighter than they should, which I would be very wary of for the long term.

 

[QueenOfCadence]

But that's back to front - the leg and the angles of the joints are fixed, assuming your horse is an adult, so to have correct and even pressure through the joints, the foot has to match them (shod or unshod). If you shoe to 'correct', you get uneven concussive forces through the joints which will lead to arthritis in the long term. One of the best ways to get the perfect hoof FOR THAT LEG (as opposed to the perfect textbook hoof) is to allow the horse to wear its feet the way it needs to ie a bare foot with lots of work on harder surfaces. It's possible to achieve this with a shoe on, but very very difficult. It sounds as though your horse is being shod so that it's legs look straighter than they should, which I would be very wary of for the long term.

He's been correctively shod since he was a young horse (since LONG before I had him), his previous owners with rather ****** and left him in a stable to rot after he had a nasty jumping accident - during this time he was left unshod and it caused his feet to turn in (naturally). You'd have to discuss it with my farrier, since I don't have a degree in hooves xD - but my boy is on the verge of being 17 years old and hasn't been lame a day in his life since he's been with me . So no worries, I wouldn't do something that would negatively impact my horse solo - that I can promise you

 

[QueenOfCadence]

If your NH lot are anything like the NH lot where I am, I wouldn't bother... Yeah, totally get you - those Highveld summers are brutal! And my friend's horse has pigeon toes and is correctively shod for it.

Sounds like you are doing everything right by yours lovely horse

Thank you Flicker! The summers are brutal - but we go swimming with the horses when it gets too hot to ride, so it's not too bad

 

[MrsMozart]

I would have two words for the NH extremists - the second would be 'off', the first they would have a choice of...

My horse. My investment. My love. I determine what/how/and why, and it's all for the good health of my horse.

And as an aside, my horse will not go bitless - looks at the rider in absolute disgust and sits on her ar&e in protest. Sometimes it is not kinder to have pressure on a sensitive nose .

I'd rather have them all unshod - I have no great wish to have metal nailed to my horses hooves or to fork out all that money, but one horse was shoeless for two years and her hooves will not grow in good order, so we're back onto trying shoes; one gets very footy unless I keep her totally off the grass, which is, in my view, cruel as she is an outdoor horse and stresses when in for too long. The two others are fine shoeless at the moment

 

[QueenOfCadence]

This is what is such a shame with very judgemental people it just puts people off every aspect!

I was born in SA, perhaps best I've never been as an adult by the sound of it.

It is lovely here in SA (even the lightening storms are beautiful )... If we had a better government I'd be more keen on living here too... Unfortunately we're governed by a bunch of baboons.

It is a shame how one or two people can ruin something completely for someone else

 

[springer1021]

Here's the photo I posted (some of you might recognize it because I have posted it on here before to show off my handsome boy):

I don't personally think it's an offensive photo. His noseband isn't wrenched shut and I always check it (I like to be able to get a finger or two underneath it, so that I know it isn't going to cause him discomfort). It's loose enough for him to actually still be able to munch grass while he's wearing it

Maybe I'm just being over sensitive but I hate being told that I'm not doing the absolute best for my horse

He's lovely and looks happy, ignore them.

When I went to SA on a riding holiday the lightining frightened the life out of me, it wasn't even up in the sky but at ground level and nearly every night, I honestly thought I wouldn't be coming home. It started on one ride as well and the guide said we were going straight back as it was to dangerous.

After hearing about AHS and how many horses die from it I would do anything to protect my horse if I lived there.

 

[QueenOfCadence]

After hearing about AHS and how many horses die from it I would do anything to protect my horse if I lived there.

It is a really horrible disease and it ends in the horse basically drowning in it's own mucus - so most of us do our best to avoid it... But then you still get NH extremists that insist on keeping horses outside 24/7 and some even refuse the AHS vaccine (because it's not natural)... Silly what people will do to prove a point

The lightening scared me when I was younger too and when we lived on the Isle of Man a while back I was astounded at the lack of lightening . Living here you get use to it, but you definitely do not want to be on horseback (or a horse for that matter) when a storm kicks up

 

[VixieTrix]

Sadly I have discovered that in their quest to be open minded many horse people only succeed in becoming more narrow minded.QUOTE]

I agree with this!! Natural way can be fantastic in some ways but only if it suits your horse. Each person knows their horse and what works best

 

[QueenOfCadence]

For those of you who've never seen an SA lightening storm in full throttle, here's a photo that was taken of one (off of the topic now but just to show you why my horse wont be living outside):

 

[springer1021]

It is a really horrible disease and it ends in the horse basically drowning in it's own mucus - so most of us do our best to avoid it... But then you still get NH extremists that insist on keeping horses outside 24/7 and some even refuse the AHS vaccine (because it's not natural)... Silly what people will do to prove a point

The lightening scared me when I was younger too and when we lived on the Isle of Man a while back I was astounded at the lack of lightening . Living here you get use to it, but you definitely do not want to be on horseback (or a horse for that matter) when a storm kicks up

I guessed it was serious when the guide just said we were going back and looked worried, she didn't have the "worried" look when we went by Rhino
In fact I would go as far to say she was panicking.

One of mine gets sweet itch and I was always complaining about the midges but never complained again after hearing about AHS.

 

[MrsMozart]

The thing about Natural Horsemanship is - there is nothing natural about humans climbing aboard a prey animals' back...

 

[QueenOfCadence]

lol. You know it's time to get worried when the guide has that "run" look on their face

We don't have a lot of sweet itch here (strange because we have a lot of midges). Luckily for the rest of the world AHS is restricted to SA, unlucky for us it makes competing internationally nearly impossible because of the strict quarantine!

 

[QueenOfCadence]

The thing about Natural Horsemanship is - there is nothing natural about humans climbing aboard a prey animals' back...

THIS is true! If we wanted to be 100% natural we should load up our horses, drive to some uninhabited area and drop them off. Horses in the wild only live to be about 6, we have a pony at our yard who is 38 ... Natural is good to an extent, but as soon as it is AT COST of the horse - it is no longer okay

 

[Foxhunter49]

I live in the UK and my horses hate being out in the wet and mud.

I loose barn the six youngsters and if it is a miserable day and I open the door for them to go out they walk to the hard track, turn around and come back in!

In the summer they stand at the gates waiting to be brought inside if it is hot and the flies are bad.

My ridden horses haven't been turned out for a couple of weeks and were pleased to go out this morning but, after a couple of hours they were waiting at the gates to come in.

I have watched and studied NH but can see nothing to give me an advantage over traditional training. The only thing I have used is 'Join-up' with nervous horses.

As for riding with treeless saddles I tried one on my cob and found that it slipped around to either side so I had to girth up extra tight and even then it slipped badly.

I would like to see the bitless fans riding a strong horse out hunting!