anyone elses horse have laminitis? can hay cause it? or lime?

amandaco2

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I have 2.
They are on less grazing than in summer, in on hay for 8 to 14 hours daily. Hooves trimmed regularly. Fed fast fibre plus pro balance. Condition score 3/5.
Worked 2-3 x week.

Obviously now they are in on box rest. Xrays show little change luckily caught it early. 1 horse has mild chronic changes the vet thinks he's been mildly lamanitic for some time. He does go footy on stones sometimes so thinking back these were probably times he had laminitis although he wasn't lame on smooth going. This horse has not got any Raised digital pulse. The only time he got one was at the time time the other horse had her attack in the summer.

The other horse has its first attack in the summer, xrays showed very mild changes. It resolved slowly at first until I changed their hay. Within 48hrs of swapping hay off the yard hay, the pulses went.

No digital pulses since, kept out muzzled all the time until November.

They've been out all year until the start of December when I brought them in during the day to dry off and have some bought in hay.

The gelding went stiff looking a few weeks into December.then after a week off work to see if that helped he started to look like he had pulled something as he was walking on 3 tracks. Then a few days later acute lame on front. Suspected hoof abscess.after a few more days the vet came and was rather stumped. No digi pulses or hoof tester reacts, no swelling or joint issues on flexing etc. Xrays show chronic laminitis changed.
The horses all then stayed in much more to keep the gelding company, fed on small bale hay and after a 10 days the mare who had lami in the summer looked lamanitic!

I've stopped feeding the same small bale hay hay in case its that. Either sugars or some kind of toxins...

The only thing applied to the field was some lime, can this cause laminitis??

The geldings Cushing test is due back this week.

Both horses are sound looking, no pulses in their stables on the new hay.

The unaffected mare has no digi pulse....
 

amandaco2

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The horses changed fields too about 6 weeks after the mares summer laminitis resolved. They have been on current field for about 6months.
The small bale hay they have been eating in Nov and December is from a different supplier to the hay they had earlier in the year (the hay I swapped to after the mares summer lami had none in stock so I bought some from another supplier)
I'm getting some big bales from the usual supplier today (the supplier I swapped to after the summer lami)
 

TGM

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If you still have the original hay, I would send it off to get it analysed to find the sugar content. If the hay has a high sugar content then it can certainly trigger laminitis in susceptible animals, hence it is often suggested that hay is soaked for laminitic animals to remove some of the sugars. I did have a Cushings pony a few years ago who stayed much more sound on short chop hay replacements with a known sugar analysis, than she did on hay. (This actually suited the fact that she had dental problems as well, and the cost wasn't too enormous because of her small size).
 

amandaco2

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Yes I was going to check if it was high sugars. Although even I its low it could still be the cause if it has some kind of toxin on it?
I also lost my oldest mare suddenly to colic a few weeks into December. The vet said the obstruction was due to a lipoma.....
Feel like I cant take much more!
 

_HP_

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Late Laminitis can certainly be a sign of Cushing's. Are they showing any other signs. The Cushings test is not the most reliable and needs to be used alongside clinical signs.
Lots of info here
http://www.thelaminitissite.org/ppid.html

What are the chronic Laminitis changes/mild changes and have they been addressed? Have the hooves been trimmed accordingly

Do they have thin soles? This can be assessed by measuring the collateral grooves and can certainly make a horse loom laminitic.
http://www.thelaminitissite.org/reading-the-foot.html
 

ester

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Is the gelding the older schoolmaster-type you have the big bay?

which of your mares is unaffected?

iirc I think yours are bare? had the angle of growth started to account for the new pedal bone position?

Sorry to read about your old girl :(.
 

amandaco2

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The coloured mare and schoolmaster are the poorly ones.
The hooves have been trimmed as per the xrays on the coloured and they are all trimmed very regularly to make sure they aren't getting long toes.
The farrier is coming Thursday, which was the soonest possible date to trim them all.i will bring the xrays for him.
The vet says the hooves look good, there is excess toe to come off.
The query Cushing horse has a slight change to the tip of p3. No rotation. Soles are thick on his xrays.
The coloured had very slight rotation and no signs of previous lami on her summer xrays.ive not had them xrayed again as the vet looking after the case is off until Thursday. She has thinner soles.
Thanks for the site links will study them later....
The gelding is in his 20s, good weight. He does get a curl on his coat if he sweats or gets wet, no problems shedding coat, he did have orbital swelling in November but he had started having some veteran vitality so I cut that out and the eye orbital is normal again now.he can pick up mud rash on his pink skin but nothing that takes much to clear up.
Thanks for ur wishes. My old girl was so special had her 25years.she was dragging me out to the field the day before bouncing about. It was a real shock.

They are all unshod.
 

amandaco2

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The coloured is only 12 and has no signs of cushings, her test was negative in summer which the vet was surprised about as she had very low risk factors.
In summer, spring, autumn they get worked nearly everyday.
 

ester

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Any chance of EMS in the mare? I am guessing she doesn't really have any of the usual signs. It certainly is a bit of a conundrum and would be interesting to get the hay tested at least, hope you can get to the bottom of it.
 

Pinkvboots

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Hay can have an effect on a laminitic horse my mare was on box rest from a bout on old soaked hay she was almost sound and had heart bar shoes on, my supplier was running out of old stuff so I started mixing the new with it and soaking for longer and within a few days she went down with it again, my vet said it may not have been the hay it could have just been a coincidence as they often have a relapse with lami, unfortunately I thought she had suffered enough with the first bout and she was in so much pain again I had her pts 2 days later.
I can totally sympathise with your situation it's just the most awful condition it may be worth testing yours for ems as well as my mare had cushings and ems and because of a tendon injury could not be ridden so it was very hard to keep her weight down, she also went through a stage of having reoccurring foot abscesses so it can be a sign the foot is not healthy, I also know if they have underlying metabolic issues without the proper medication you won't get the laminitis under control so once you get your cushings results if they are positive you can start him on prascend will will really help.
 

_GG_

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Give the Animal Health Trust a call on 01638 750659 and see what they say. They are running a big research study at the moment and have the best access to advice and information at the very least.

Good luck and sorry to hear you lost your other horse xx
 

Tiarella

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I had my connies shoes off on 20th November and has gone a little footy in the last few days. Judging from the rings on his feet he has had laminitis before so I've taken him off the grass and keeping him in 24/7 for the next few days with soaked hay and see what happens. They feel warm and he is a little pottery. Just hard to tell if he is foot sore or not!
 

CazD

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My EMS mare only ever had laminitis in the winter when she was fed hay. We had to soak all her hay although in the summer when she was strip grazed along with the rest of the ponies there were no problems.
 

amandaco2

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Thanks, will get hay checked so I can see I its high sugar at least.
They are all improved, no digital pulse to be felt on them again today and I've got my usual big bale hay :)
I'm not sure re ems I will ask the vet to consider this as its not been mentioned:)
 

amandaco2

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His Cushing test is positive. Was 134.
So he's going on prascend which will hopefully keep him well and I'm going to have to muzzle him in the field now too!
I'm also thinking of restarting copra cool as he was on this until about 4months ago....i stopped it as he was getting too round....
 

_HP_

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Thanks, will get hay checked so I can see I its high sugar at least.
They are all improved, no digital pulse to be felt on them again today and I've got my usual big bale hay :)
I'm not sure re ems I will ask the vet to consider this as its not been mentioned:)
You can be pretty sure that if your horse has endocrine Laminitis , that it has ems...but its not a disease...more a condition and its diet and exercise that will solve that.
A blood test will show you how insulin resistant he is so you can work out how much sugar he can cope with (or not)
 

amandaco2

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Hes fed hay, grass and fast fibre so the only diet i can restrict is the grass.....he normally does 7days week work or 2 days in winter. He also droops weight very easily so i will have to restart his copra if i restrict grass (he was on copra for ages but got a bit over round so i stopped it)
hes starting his meds and im reading up on ems and cushings....
thanks all, ive really appreciated everyones replies.
 
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