Anyone experienced this? (sudden collapse)

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TBmare92

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Hi

My horse had the dentist today, half way through having his teeth done he collapsed. I'm just wondering if stress may have caused this?
he had been given 5ml of the oral sedative- Acepromazine 35g in a ten ml tube- an hour before this happened (he weighs over 650kg so this is a low dose, vet advised nearly twice this and said I could increase if needed as it was a safe drug). I gave My mare 4mls from the same tube and she had no adverse affects so it wasn't a dodgy tube. My gelding has also had this sedation before at a higher dose and been fine. he didn't appear to be particularly sedated up to the point of collapse, he was more subdued but still putting up some resistance to his teeth being done (ie leaning back, raising his head but nothing serious). Then all of a sudden he just wobbled and literally keeled over, a few seconds later we manged to get him standing but he was very wobbly -he's fine now and eating in the field heart rate temp all normal.
Nothing like this has happened before.

I must add that the last time he had his teeth done the vet (I used a specialist dentist this time not vet) left the rasp in my horses mouth (vet thought he was going to be naughty) and my horse who was heavily sedated using iv sedative lost his balance as he had been leaning into the rasp lunged forward and hit his mouth on the stable wall, causing the rasp to be driven into the soft pallet at the back of his mouth, he ended up in equine hospital for a few days. it's taken the last few months to get him to trust people near his mouth again but he's been pretty much back to normal now.

(I spoke to vets she said to keep an eye on him and to call her if he acts strangely again, she just said it was very strange and wasn't sure what caused it)

Sorry for the essay but could he have acted this way because of stress? The dentist suggested he might have just shut down due to stress but it's a new one on me!

Thanks for reading
 
My dentist told me a donkey collapsed and died on him the other day, just after he had finished doing its teeth. The donkey had appeared calm throughout, and was not sedated. Poor little thing.
 
FfionWinnie said:
Just wondering if, with hindsight, a similar thing could have been the cause of the accident last time?
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I was thinking the same.

I wonder if it was stress, but I would also ask for the tests to be done to see if he is an early stage wobbler? The vet has a raft of tests, including going up and down hill with the head raised.
 
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Wagtail said:
Some horses can lose consciousness if they throw their head right up.
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really!? see my boy collapsed a few years back, gave himself a fright and flung his head right up, then fell flat on his side stiff as a board then got up a minute later and went back to eating as if nothing had happened. I thought he was dying infront of my face but he was fine and its never happened again!
 
Thank you for your replies- he's been tested for most things he came to me with a strange hind gait and 101 other issues- we now know it's due to a si injury and that he doesn't have wobblers . He could have a neurological problem that's one thing we haven't looked into but he doesn't show any other symptoms.

That's really interesting How high do they have to throw their head? I was there today and last time and he didn't raise his head that high more leaning back on head collar, he didn't make a sudden movement either just wobbled then literally keeled over stiff as a board? Iv never seen anything like it!

Xx
 
I have seen a couple of highly stressed horses have the equivalent of a human faint. A pony started rolling in a field next to mine and ended up with her head and part of her neck under the wire which stopped her raising her head enough to get up. She then appeared to have fainted. A friend and I managed to slide her along the ground enough for her to be clear of the fence and she got up and carried on grazing. The other instance occurred when my one of my cob' s hind feet dislodged a length of wire fallen in long grass and as he went forward the tight wire rode up his leg and started cutting into him. I tried to make him go backwards to release the tension but instead he collapsed and again appeared to faint. I ran to the house and came back with wire cutters, he was still lying where I had left him but got up immediately after I cut the wire. The 'faint' probably saved these two horses from the serious injuries they would have sustained had they struggled and I assumed it was the equivalent of the 'playing dead' some wild animals exhibit when threatened?
 
I would want the vet to come and give the horse an examination especially after last time too, I would especially want them to listen to heart rate at rest and after exercise/when stressed, also to check the pulse.
 
One of my horses appeared to faint once, she was perfectly healthy and just collapsed down in her stable. I had just bought her in, it was a very hot day and she had a drink then collapsed. She lay flat out, I thought I was going to lose her. I had the physio at my yard treating another horse and she waited with me for the vet to arrive. Just before the vet arrived, my mare regained consciousness, stood up and started eating her haynet as though nothing had happened. I owned her for 20 years and this happened when she was in her late teens. I was never aware of her doing anything similar again. We wondered whether the cold water she drank had given her a sharp stomach pain or something like that which made her faint. We never found any problems with her heart or anything neurological which could have caused it.
 
He's had his heart rate done when he's done strenuous exercise and when stressed nothing's come up so far. I spoke to vet after it happened but she didn't seem too worried as heart rate was normal etc but said to keep a close eye. But after the incident before (a much longer story I just gave a very brief overview), I have changed vets so still getting to know them etc. He was really poorly and has had so many tests over the last year and a half and he's also spent the equivalent of 2weeks at arundel equine hospital over this time too. Nothing's come up bar the old SI injury. It does sound a lot like the head lifting thing but then again he lifts his head all the time and doesn't collapse. I probably will get the vet out again just to be sure for my peace of mind- they were only out a couple of weeks ago and all was fine but better to be safe than sorry. Cx
 
I had my tb pts recently. When under stress he started to have a fit in a way and would lie down. Once in the middle of the road. I'd say that because of the previous incident, fear, anxiety and sedation caused him to fit and pass out.
 
My horse once fainted when he was a youngster and was taken on a walk in-hand not far from an airport. He saw a plane landing from a relatively close distance, was spooked by the sound, reared, then stood still for a second with a glazed look in his eyes and collapsed. He got up instantly and this has never happened again.
 
One of mine went down on the beach, vet put it down to watching the water move while standing still.

She then went down in the stable. Vet thought it was the heat.

Finally blacked out over a cross country jump and nearly killed us both. At that point assumed to neurological and she was retired and eventually pts.

My advice would be not to put yourself into a dangerous situation until neuro issues have been ruled out.
 
I had a little Shetland foal collapse while having her feet trimmed once. It was like a faint...she was stressing, then went quiet, then just lay down. The farrier finished the trim and we have her a gentle prod and she woke and got up and never did it again
 
My mare had epilepsy and I used to gather information about other cases from wherever I could, so my horsey dentist was an excellent person to tap for information. We had to stop part way through doing my girl one day because she suddenly seemed to go blank and very still. We let her have a break for a moment then continued carefully. While we were waiting he told me that he had had several horses completely collapse while being rasped so he was very alert to it. He also said the majority were arabs. Other posters have noted that raising the head can cause collapse and this is true - one of the neurological tests is to push the head up and back. The only seizure my mare ever had that was out of the ordinary pattern was when she was tied up and she heard horses coming down the lane, and threw her head up suddenly.

OP, the sedative could indeed have had an effect. Normal sedatives such as ACP lower the seizure threshold and make it easier for a seizure to break through. Horses have an incredibly strong "firewall" which protects against seizures normally. I remember your accident though and I don't blame you for using a sedative under the circumstances. A drug in the valium family would be ok to use, but your vet would have to administer it.
 
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