Anyone got a 'van' horsebox?

Regarding payload I found a local weighbride (at a chicken processing plant) and weighed my van myself - I wouldn't take anyone's word for what it could carry without seeing it with my own eyes. Many features that are for safety are heavy (steel reinforced bulkhead / aluminium floor etc) plus all the extras of passengers / fuel / water container / spare wheel / saddlery all add up
 
I have a Renault master conversion and carry a medium weight 16.1 + tack etc and stay well within the law. He loads and travels well, it's lovely to drive, cheap to run and cheap to maintain. I love it. having had an Ifor trailer and 2 x 7.5ton lorries in the past, for me it's perfect . If there was sufficient headroom, I could carry a bigger horse and stay within the law but although it would carry 2 horses of 16hh easily, with tack etc, I'd be over weight. I had mine weighed before I bought it, so I knew it would be OK. However, I did look at several conversions that were appallingly flimsy and wouldn't touch one with extras in the jockey area eg cooker/sink as I'm sure they would put it over weight.
 
One thing that I'd love to know (maybe ROG could input here?)' with these 3.5t rear facing vans, how does the load ie horses weight affect the axel loading limits? I would have thought that with vans, the load ability percentage is over the back axel. When a horse is rear facing that looks to carry that extra weight nearer to the front axel which will have less available percentage????

Any thoughts on this? I'm looking at a 3.5t box possibly myself so this thread is really interesting.
 
Tiddlepiddle said:
One thing that I'd love to know (maybe ROG could input here?)' with these 3.5t rear facing vans, how does the load ie horses weight affect the axel loading limits? I would have thought that with vans, the load ability percentage is over the back axel. When a horse is rear facing that looks to carry that extra weight nearer to the front axel which will have less available percentage????

Any thoughts on this? I'm looking at a 3.5t box possibly myself so this thread is really interesting.
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The seperate axle weights will always add up to more than the GVW to allow for some flexibility of where the load is placed


The only way to be certain that either the axles or the GVW is not exceeded is to have it weighbridged
 
Thanks ROG, have you ever come across a box where the front axel weight is over limit?

It has been suggested to me that many 3.5t'ers will only have about 300kgs in hand for the front axle which when traveling a horse backwards suggests there could be an issue? All the adverts focus on total available payload but that not the whole picture is it???
 
Sorry to hijack but I am thinking of getting one in around 2 years time for my 16.2 1/2hh ISH. He would be the only one in it and we were thinking of an Equitrek or Alexanders type so new. Would this be okay?
 
Tiddlepiddle said:
Thanks ROG, have you ever come across a box where the front axel weight is over limit?

It has been suggested to me that many 3.5t'ers will only have about 300kgs in hand for the front axle which when traveling a horse backwards suggests there could be an issue? All the adverts focus on total available payload but that not the whole picture is it???
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That sort of question can probably only be answered by VOSA or traffic police as they will have any data on these issues
 
Quite frankly, I love mine. I have had my horse section separated from the living to save hay from getting over my stuff and also due to the fact my last horse was prone to rearing so I didn't want him getting his legs up over the partition. It works really well as I have then got my saddle racks in the back under the shelf that the horse puts his head on.

I mainly carried my fine 15.3h by himself, but also have taken my friends 15hh out with him and both were fine weightwise (in fact they drive better with two on). I also used it for my 16.2hh occasionally who was also fine height wise - my friend loaded her 17hh tb onto it just to see and she was ok but I wouldn't personally put anything bigger than 17hh in mine as they don't have the headroom.

Everything loaded fine, my friends 15hh mentioned above wouldn't load/travel on anything else so now they have bought one too. The ramp is very shallow. All travelled fine and never had any problem about it tipping round corners or anything? In fact the centre of gravity is very low compared not high as mentioned above? Think of those ifor bodies on transit chassis - those centre of gravitys are high!!

As above, if they are built sturdily and safely with suitable reinforcements like mine (steel reinforced bulkhead etc plus my full partition into the living which is heavier) they definitely don't have the payload for 2 x 16.2hh. Some companies manage to get the payload, but I would worry about how reinforced these boxes are.
 
Sick of peoples old fashioned views on these boxes. I have one that we had built ourselves by a very reputable person! Honestly the safest thing I feel to travel my horse in! Im only 19 and a fairly rubbish driver, but I find it really easy to drive and have had no trouble going up hills etc.. I have also seen a horse having a fit in one of these and it hardly moving, opposed to a horse in a big 7.5t that looked like it might tip!! I easily take one fat 15h warmblood and another 15.2 easily in my 1.3t payload and they have loads of space. Had trouble travelling my mare for years on anything except this she loves it that much!
 
These vehicles are vans rather than trucks. A truck has got a far stronger chassis and is higher off the ground.
The axel width is shorter than a truck so the vehicle is less stable.
The van type body/container is not as strongly built as a custom made container so in an impact will crumple up.
The disadvantage of a 3.5 van type is that the horses are lower down so in the event of an impact from another vehicle are more likely to be injured.
It would be interesting to see the accident test results of these type of horse transporters as I would suggest that they would not offer much protection to the horses they are carrying.
 
In reply to OrangePepper, some things to take into consideration are:

Fact: Height of travel (of floor) is almost exactly the same as a trailer, if not higher (negating your issue about height/crash impact)
Many are built on long wheel base (LWB) which does spread the load and makes them far more stable than you would think.
The level of protection on a built 3.5 is (IMHO) as good if not better than a trailer.

:)
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
In reply to OrangePepper, some things to take into consideration are:

Fact: Height of travel (of floor) is almost exactly the same as a trailer, if not higher (negating your issue about height/crash impact)
Many are built on long wheel base (LWB) which does spread the load and makes them far more stable than you would think.
The level of protection on a built 3.5 is (IMHO) as good if not better than a trailer.

:)
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This. The sides and front of most trailers are a single sheet of fibreglass or thin metal on a frame.
 
This is mine...
http://www.marlboroughhorseboxes.co.uk/sport.html

I bought it this time last year and it has been fantastic. I often carry my own boy 14hh nf pony and my friends 15hh horse at the same time. I did take my friends 16.1 horse once but didnt like it as horse just felt 'too big' even though well below the weight limit.

I would make sure you buy one from a proper company such as marlborough horse boxes rather than companies called 'can van' and other names like that as they really dont sound very reputable.
 
This thread has inspired me to get my 3.5 re-weighed at a weighbridge as although I know what it's payload is supposed to be (1.2), I've had work done to it since then that will have added weight AND I have no idea whether the original weighing included the spare tyre, full tank of fuel etc. I'm also going to fill it with all my usual competition stuff, two sets of tack etc. so I know *exactly* how much I have to play with for horse (or horses), passengers or staying away gear.

It's possible that some people who are quoting big horse payloads on this thread *might* not be allowing enough for fuel, water, rugs, tack, people etc.
 
sidewaysonacob said:
This thread has inspired me to get my 3.5 re-weighed at a weighbridge as although I know what it's payload is supposed to be (1.2), I've had work done to it since then that will have added weight AND I have no idea whether the original weighing included the spare tyre, full tank of fuel etc. I'm also going to fill it with all my usual competition stuff, two sets of tack etc. so I know *exactly* how much I have to play with for horse (or horses), passengers or staying away gear.
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Everyone should be doing this because without doing so it all comes down to guesswork and speculation which is not a good idea where the law/safety is concerned
 
georgiaziggy said:
Sick of peoples old fashioned views on these boxes. I have one that we had built ourselves by a very reputable person! Honestly the safest thing I feel to travel my horse in! Im only 19 and a fairly rubbish driver, but I find it really easy to drive and have had no trouble going up hills etc.. I have also seen a horse having a fit in one of these and it hardly moving, opposed to a horse in a big 7.5t that looked like it might tip!! I easily take one fat 15h warmblood and another 15.2 easily in my 1.3t payload and they have loads of space. Had trouble travelling my mare for years on anything except this she loves it that much!
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May be an old fashioned view but there is no way on earth I would be travelling anything larger than a small pony in one of those, especially a home made conversion.

I don't believe that the weight is sensibly distributed on the axels or that the chasis is capable of holding two horses. Sorry, I wouldn't pick that over our 7.5t any day and I would far rather put myself through the tests.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
In reply to OrangePepper, some things to take into consideration are:

Fact: Height of travel (of floor) is almost exactly the same as a trailer, if not higher (negating your issue about height/crash impact)
Many are built on long wheel base (LWB) which does spread the load and makes them far more stable than you would think.
The level of protection on a built 3.5 is (IMHO) as good if not better than a trailer.

:)
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Exactly I think there is a big difference comparing one of these to a truck than comparing them to (arguably more what they are like/other vehicle most likely to have) a trailer and know plenty of people who feel safer in them than they would a trailer (which many of us use day in day out).
 
Megibo said:
Thanks Montanna, where did you buy yours from ?
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Gosh there is a LOT of generalising on this thread!!

We bought our van and had it converted.

We did a lot of research and looked at loads and loads of boxes... for a lot of these so called 'reputable' companies - they were charging silly money (think £13k plus!) for an 04 plate van with 150k+ miles and not great workmanship... a lot of the materials were flimsy, and although the finish looked flashy, they were actually not that great underneath. It is amazing how a flashy paint job and a swish interior can hide a multitude of sins. My dad wasn't happy with the bulk heads, and reinforcements on a lot of them. He knew that he was putting his daughter (and quite nutty horse!) in one of these so wanted to make sure in case of an accident, that I was as safe as possible, with the horse coming a close second. No way did we want half a ton of horse coming crashing through into the cab in case of an accident!!

I wanted my horse area separated from the living for a few reasons that I listed previously.. a lot of companies wouldn't entertain this or if they did offer it, it would be in the way of anti weave grills (not a fan of these as danger of horse breaking their neck) or a removable breast bar (no way did I want to be going into the back when the horse was thrashing around over the bar to let down a blinking breast bar!! - I know the ifor's have them dropped by allen key from the OUTSIDE which is much more preferable - but I wanted to eliminate the possibility of the horse climbing out altogether (mine was a nut and prone to rearing). A lot of people tried to dissuade me from this at the time saying the horse wouldn't have enough room, I would take up my living space yada yada yada, but I stuck to my guns and I wouldn't change a thing about my box whatsoever. I get loads of compliments on it.

I love it to bits, all horses I have had travel fantastically. It is cheap to insure, tax and fuel and sits on my drive all year round and starts first time every time. I know mine is as safe and reinforced as it could possibly be, and we have probably sacrificed a bit of payload, but so be it.
 
sidewaysonacob said:
This thread has inspired me to get my 3.5 re-weighed at a weighbridge as although I know what it's payload is supposed to be (1.2), I've had work done to it since then that will have added weight AND I have no idea whether the original weighing included the spare tyre, full tank of fuel etc. I'm also going to fill it with all my usual competition stuff, two sets of tack etc. so I know *exactly* how much I have to play with for horse (or horses), passengers or staying away gear.

It's possible that some people who are quoting big horse payloads on this thread *might* not be allowing enough for fuel, water, rugs, tack, people etc.
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It would be really interesting to see the results.

Some people may think that those of us worrying about weight and safety are old fashioned (!!!???) but safety of yourself and your horse should be more important than whether the horse simply fits in and you find it easy to drive!!

I would be really interested to know, from those that feel they are totally safe and legal to carry larger horses in these, how much your horses and tack actually weigh compared to what the van should be carrying. And also whether you have ever weighed your horses or loaded van properly (we weighed our horses on a weighbridge this summer and they were both a fair bit heavier than our weight tapes estimated..)?
 
Mine weighs 2340KG - this is including my dad and a full tank of diesel, so I have 1160kg after this for horses and tack etc.

I can therefore take two smallish horses as long as I take minimal equipment :)
 
I have one of these - not sure my opinion would count for much on this thread as my pony is only a 13.2hh Fell so we don't have height issues (however much he likes to think he's 16hh!). I have to say, we bought mine second hand last winter and it is fab. Ours is a quality conversion; reinforced floor, bulkhead etc. The only thing I would say is make sure there is adequate ventilation, I have 3 windows, 2 roof vents and a fan in the roof as well. My pony travels well but he is a warm pony and whilst he is fine I think if I had 2 of him in there is might get a bit steamy without the level of ventilation we have. We have been up to about 4 hours away from home in mine, I've slept in the back at camp and Equifest and I do it all on my own. There is a lot of overpriced rubbish out there - we were looking for months before we settled on mine. But to the people make wide ranging statements about how flimsy they are and how cramped and small and not fit for anything over 10hh - I'd challenge you to measure the space in a trailer vs. one of these boxes. To be honest trailers give me the heebie jeebies and scare the life out of me - but that's personal preference, I know plenty of people that safely travel their horses all over the country in them.
 
I'm very lucky in that my OH was a mechanic and auto electrician in the past, and he's done a lot of work on our van.

There are parts of it that don't look as pretty as some (including various parts that have been re-inforced) but I am happy in the knowledge that it's a safe vehicle for the purpose we use it.

Which is carrying our 12.2hh pony.

If/when the next pony comes along who will no doubt be 14hh, the van will go off to the weigh bridge.

Personally, I can't see you getting any change out of 800-900kgs for two ponies of this size, leaving only 300kgs (at best) for x3 humans, x2 lots of tack and everything else carried inc tools, spare wheel etc.... I will need quite a bit of convincing that that payload would be ok - and if necessary, I will trade up my vehicle at that point.

A trailer wasn't an option for us, as my OH was involved a long time ago in an accident on the motorway, whilst towing a caravan, when the caravan wheel burst, and the caravan flipped (luckily onto the hard shoulder, but a good few serious injuries were incurred). Therefore OH would not entertain a trailer. And a 7.5 tonner isn't really necessary for a 12.2hh pony!

Our van is perfect for us, and I disagree with anyone quoting stability issues, and also the issues regarding what height the horses are travelled at. Mine is a long wheel base, high top, and is the most comfortable vehicle I've ever driven. It never feels unbalanced and is a pleasure to handle.

I refer to this type of vehicle as a "pony box" and personally think the issues arise when they are used for more than they are capable of carrying. Sure, mine would "take" most likely up to about 15.2hh, but I wouldn't be happy with that.

I wouldn't compromise safety for convenience - it's like anything, if things are used for what they're made for (and have been made well) then all should be fine. If things are pushed beyond their limits (or poorly made) then there's a risk.

And when people and ponies are concerned, I won't take risks.

Just my opinion :-)
 
rachaelstar said:
This is mine...
http://www.marlboroughhorseboxes.co.uk/sport.html

I bought it this time last year and it has been fantastic. I often carry my own boy 14hh nf pony and my friends 15hh horse at the same time. I did take my friends 16.1 horse once but didnt like it as horse just felt 'too big' even though well below the weight limit.

I would make sure you buy one from a proper company such as marlborough horse boxes rather than companies called 'can van' and other names like that as they really dont sound very reputable.
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I had a look at this company and wondered if the boxes were very good. Is it sufficiently reinforced etc? :)
 
have a look at burley horseboxes - Tony makes you visit to see how he reinforces the box - he takes out the original bulkhead (bit between people and horse bum) and totally replaces it so you can see from the cab it has not been bodged but is a thick purpose built bulkhead. Pics in my profile of mine - love it and feel totally safe in it.
 
Honey08 said:
It would be really interesting to see the results.

Some people may think that those of us worrying about weight and safety are old fashioned (!!!???) but safety of yourself and your horse should be more important than whether the horse simply fits in and you find it easy to drive!!

I would be really interested to know, from those that feel they are totally safe and legal to carry larger horses in these, how much your horses and tack actually weigh compared to what the van should be carrying. And also whether you have ever weighed your horses or loaded van properly (we weighed our horses on a weighbridge this summer and they were both a fair bit heavier than our weight tapes estimated..)?
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As previously stated in my earlier post - van taken to weighbridge with worst case scenario - haynets, all crap in it, and full tank of fuel and weighed with driver in (my OH). Only thing missing was horse. I was left with 980kg payload. My TB weighed 538kg at her last weighbridge weigh in - so with one horse in, it's perfectly fine and drives very very well. Now I have travelled two in it - once. I took everything out, including the spare wheel as it was for one 45 minute journey from A to B - didn't need any tack/water/rugs - they were going away for their holidays. So I reckon I increased the payload to at least 1030kg. I took the big TB and a 13.2hh New Forest. So yes, I was definitely "legal" . The van strangely was far more balanced with two horses in.........however.......it's not something I would want to do again - not because it was illegal but because it increased the braking distance so much that I didn't feel safe. As it was mostly a quiet motorway journey I was able to drive and leave a very long gap in front of me, but I wouldn't have wanted to have to drive it on a busy motorway or in a long line of fast moving traffic.
I love mine, it does the job for me fine, but I totally do understand the concerns and they are valid concerns. As for the comment earlier about them crumpling in a collision situation - vehicles crumple for safety - the are designed to crumple - it's actually far better than lorries in some situations, which actually fold, rather than crumple.
 
My ex other half had one (a renualt master) and it was lovely to drive. Frequently took my 14.2 and my friends 15.2 long backed mare very comfortably and handled well - not that I ever drove it due to being to young but always felt safe in it - but other half said was lovely. When I sold my pony I then used it for my 16 mare, again fitted lovely in it and even travelled with said 15.2 mare - again with plenty of room.

I think it depends on who converts them, ours was a little bit more spacious than others I've seen. I'd deff get another, being young I would never be able to afford a lorry or trailer and tow vehicle, especially as you now have to spend so much on tests to drive them.

One negative I would say is ours had a very weak seal on the top "ramp" and actually broke (luckily there were no horses in at the time) and fell on top of us when we were undoing it so if you are getting one I would look at one with hinges as opposed to just a seal.
 
Black_Horse_White said:
What you should also remember if you are unlucky enough to be involved in an accident and you are found to be overweight, your insurance would almost certainly be void.
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Agreed - that's why it's so important to know how much payload you have. The worrying thing is that some converters say that they have a 1.3t payload, but generally they are weighed with no fuel in, no spare wheel, no tools and I even heard of one, which took the partition out prior to taking it to the weighbridge to get the weighbridge certificate!!
 
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