charmaine
Well-Known Member
I need to know what is the definition of someone trading in horses. Do they need to sell more than a certain number of horses per year? I need to prove to a court that someone is masquerading as a private seller.
anyone here with legal knowledge - help desperately needed
- Thread starter charmaine
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BarmyC
Well-Known Member
I think its got something to do with a "main source of income" i might be wrong though.
WoopsiiD
Well-Known Member
Dealer
someone who deals in property as a business; involving himself in buying and re-selling of property or goods for profit-making. The trade involved is not occasional hence the need for licenses, registration with tax department, etc
got that from
www.legal-explanations.com
someone who deals in property as a business; involving himself in buying and re-selling of property or goods for profit-making. The trade involved is not occasional hence the need for licenses, registration with tax department, etc
got that from
www.legal-explanations.com
PeterNatt
Well-Known Member
Anyone that sells more than 5 -7 horses per year is treated as being a horse dealer as far as the magistrate courts are concerned.
cariad
Well-Known Member
It is a question of fact in each case. If, for instance, you set yourself up in business as a horse dealer, then you are a dealer from the word go as that is what you are are what you intend to do. If you are a mother whose 5 children all outgrow their ponies at once and you need to sell them on to get them new and bigger ones, then just because you are selling a number of ponies at once does not necessarily make you a dealer.
Some people inadvertently make themselves dealers - a riding school for instance which periodically sells on horses it no longer has any use for, or proves unsuitable for the school.
You are looking for a consistent pattern of buying/selling, advertising, making a profit on each sale, intention of dealing, promoting yourself as a commercial enterprise ( though not always), buying for sale on, selling on behalf of others, regular turnover, a " commercial feel" for the yard, that sort of thing. Do they buy from horse sales and then the horses turn up later in adverts? Do the staff school the horses for a period before sale? Are the horses trimmed up, freshly shod, fittened etc with the potential for sale? Get evidence if you can from other buyers, local knowledge - i.e. does the local riding club/riding schools/ horse community think of them as dealers? Check on their adverts - are they fairly regular? Do Trading Standards know of them and how do they see them?
This is not conclusive nor exclusive, but I hope it helps.
Some people inadvertently make themselves dealers - a riding school for instance which periodically sells on horses it no longer has any use for, or proves unsuitable for the school.
You are looking for a consistent pattern of buying/selling, advertising, making a profit on each sale, intention of dealing, promoting yourself as a commercial enterprise ( though not always), buying for sale on, selling on behalf of others, regular turnover, a " commercial feel" for the yard, that sort of thing. Do they buy from horse sales and then the horses turn up later in adverts? Do the staff school the horses for a period before sale? Are the horses trimmed up, freshly shod, fittened etc with the potential for sale? Get evidence if you can from other buyers, local knowledge - i.e. does the local riding club/riding schools/ horse community think of them as dealers? Check on their adverts - are they fairly regular? Do Trading Standards know of them and how do they see them?
This is not conclusive nor exclusive, but I hope it helps.
FMM
Well-Known Member
As far as a court of law is concerned, it is purely down to the number of horses sold in a period of time. I am not sure of the number - but not that many - something like 5 in 12 months I believe. You do not need to be registered to be seen as a horse dealer, it doesn't matter if you make ALL your money from another job and sell all your horses at a loss - if you sell more than 5 then you are a dealer and therefore have certain obligations as far as the court is concerned.
cariad
Well-Known Member
Can you let me have your authority for that - case law or whatever? It's because it's a question of fact in each case that you plead "in the alternative" - i.e., if the finding is that they are a dealer, then one set of laws apply; if the finding is that they they are not, then other laws apply. (Sale of Goods, Trading standards etc as against mistatement and misrepresentation). Is frequently practically the first line in any defence "The Defendant is not/does not admit to (being a dealer -there is more technical wording) and the Claimant is put to strict proof of the Defendant's status" or words to that effect.
Thanks.
Thanks
Thanks.
Thanks
CBAnglo
Well-Known Member
I agree with Cariad. It is a question of fact and is mostly argued in tax cases - i.e. the "dealer" ought to be liable to tax on the income from dealing in horses.
The most common test is the 7 badges of trade. This requires frequency of transactions, motive, improvements etc etc if these are shown then it is unlikely that the person in question can argue that they are not in fact dealers.
For example, I know someone who has sold 4 horses in one year. She made a sizeable profit on 1, and sold the others for more or less what she paid. Reason? she overestimated her riding ability (yes, she did this on 4 occasions) and now has decided after the string of beautiful green dressage warmbloods and show cobs that she really just ought to get a 14hh plod. I dont think she would be considered a dealer at all.
The most common test is the 7 badges of trade. This requires frequency of transactions, motive, improvements etc etc if these are shown then it is unlikely that the person in question can argue that they are not in fact dealers.
For example, I know someone who has sold 4 horses in one year. She made a sizeable profit on 1, and sold the others for more or less what she paid. Reason? she overestimated her riding ability (yes, she did this on 4 occasions) and now has decided after the string of beautiful green dressage warmbloods and show cobs that she really just ought to get a 14hh plod. I dont think she would be considered a dealer at all.