Anyone in Canada? Emigration questions....

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Hi,

Just wondered if there is anyone out there who has made the move and how they found it? Been considering emigrating for a while and been looking at British Columbia online... Just wondered if anyone has any advise on areas, whats its like there, visa's etc.. Would be looking to purchase a ranch/ farm ideally.

Also, has anyone transported there horses, would they advise it?

Many thanks!
 
post it in SB please then i can read what is said, very interested myself
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Hi,

Bandit moved to Vancouver last year. BC is higher, wetter and warmer (reputedly) than where I am on the other side of the country, although we plan to relocate to BC or Alberta when our daughter finishes High School.

Tia moved horses and other animals and can advise you best on that. Emma 69 is also over here.

Go to www.mls.ca for a look see at properties etc.

I used a company to do all my paperwork, expensive, but it took just 7 months from date of application to the day we landed in Toronto! Friends who have done it themselves have taken YEARS. We had Permanent Residency in less than 18 months.

Brilliant country to live in. If you haven't been here before the best thing to do is come over for a month and travel around, that's what we did. You might find, and some people do, that you really hate it.

Feel free to pm if you wish. I'm in all day (hiding from the rain!)
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Hi there, this may be very long, Lol!!

Where abouts in BC are you looking to move to? If you are looking around Vancouver then, as Enfys says, it is much wetter there. There are some towns along the Coquihalla Hwy which have potential to earn money, however it depends on what compromises you are ready to make. Right from Vancouver out to Abbotsford is busy and we had problems finding large acreage there - there didn't seem to be anything with more than 50 acres, and the 50 acre farms were so slim on the ground, none being suitable for us.

Chilliwack is the next place on from there, heading East, and it is a fast growing community. It is big dairy farmland out there, the valley does flood from time to time, there is often fog there and I personally think it smells a lot
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Beyond Chilliwack, next city along is Kamloops; I think this is somewhere that I would say is reaching interesting development strategies. It is VERY dry in Kamloops and rarely rains, so you need to make sure you buy somewhere with irrigation in place. When we were looking at irrigation back in 2002 and 2003, the prices we were getting for a 100 arce parcel ran at around $200,000 to install. You MUST make sure you have a good well, otherwise running out of water is a real risk. Winters are mild anywhere in the Kamloops/Okanagan region and it is technically classed as a desert.

When you leave Kamloops, you can either head on to Kelowna or Vernon or up to Salmon Arm. Out of those cities, Vernon and Salmon Arm were the ones we spent most time in. We actually spent in total, 11 months in the Okanagan and in my opinion, IF you can find the acreage (again a problem out there) to ensure a success, then my own preference is Vernon. I really like Vernon, however we found problems there too; we found a property which was 365 acres, however NONE of it was fenced! And it was half way up a mountain so rough grazing. Fencing is extortionate over here. There was one other place which interested us greatly, however it only had 65 acres which was just not enough for us.

Most farm properties in the Okanagan have 2 houses; generally the old farmhouse (which people tend to rent out) and then the new huge house which they live in. We had no success at all in the Okanagan though, we could find many properties with 200+ acres, but with only 10 or 15 useable acres, as the rest of it was up a mountain side with trees everywhere!

Forest fires are an issue in BC. If possible try to buy where there has already been a fire, this will mean you are very likely going to be safer than if you have growing trees on the property. Having rivers surrounding (close to) your property was something that was paramount to me. You will see the devastation when you go there. There was a massive fire on Okanagan Mountain a couple of years ago, just outside Kelowna. There was another one which spread from Salmon Arm, down to Vernon and over to Kamloops.

Flooding is another issue out there, so make sure you do not buy on the Flood Plains.

There are a LOT of Indian Reservations in the Okanagan - you need to be very careful if you choose to live near them.

There are bears in abundance all over BC. An 8 year old Grizzly was killed there when we were out there once, so although they say there aren't any Grizzlies, there are! Black bears and Brown bears are around, so you need to learn what to do when you come across each type. Children are all taught it in schools so the information will come home for you to learn.

Wolves and coyotes are everywhere in the whole of Canada and are just something you get used to. Be careful if you have small dogs, as they will lure them into the middle of fields and then turn and kill them. Vancouver Island has cougars/mountain lions, so you need to be aware of that if you are planning to go there.

There are hundreds of Govt websites out there where you can find this information.

MLS is the place to find properties.

As to immigration, well it depends on how you apply and what category you apply under. Generally you are looking at anywhere from 2 years to 5 years before you get Permanent Residence. We came in on a business category and it took pretty much 2 years to the day to gain Permanent Residence. You need to look on the CHC (Canadian High Commission) website and you will find all the categories under which you can apply. They have changed a lot since I immigrated here, however they still work under the point system. Simply put, if you have enough points then you can apply (make sure you don't cheat to find these points, because if you do, then you will find after your application has been in process for 2 years, you'll just get a letter one day telling you you do not have enough points and your application is being binned!), if you don't have enough points, don't bother applying and look at moving to a different country, OR try to come in via a different method, Work Permit etc. Emma and Enfys (I believe) both initially came into Canada via WPs, so they will be able to give you good advice on that.

Canada is an okay country to live in. Canadian people (in general) are very friendly and are happy to chatter away to you. You will feel very comfortable living here within no time as they are helpful and kind people on the whole. Canada is not a cheap country to live in though. When you live in the UK and you first come over here, it seems incredibly cheap because you are working on the exchange rate, however once you start earning in dollars, you will find that a lot of things are the same price, some more expensive, and the odd thing that is cheaper (land and property). Do not think you will live well here on a similar amount of earnings, because you won't - bucks are hard to come by here. Healthcare is not totally free. We do have a Healthcare of sorts, but it is not comparable to the NHS. You have to pay for many things so it would be of interest to you to look into health insurance. Speaking of that, you are not covered for for the first few months of being in Canada, so you will need to look into buying insurance for that time period.

Bringing animals over here; very simple to do. I brought 2 dogs, a cat and a horse. Dogs and cat came on the same flight as me - I flew British Airways and they were absolutely great with the animals. Horse followed 2 days later and was flown into NY State where she did her quarantine and then a month later, she was land shipped up to Ontario to our farm. Peden Bloodstock was who I used to bring her here. I paid just under 700 (pounds) to ship all the small animals, and 6,600 (pounds) for the horse.

I am busy in real life right now (just taking a coffee break right now) so am not on here as often right now, however if you want to know any extra details about any of the areas I have mentioned, I know them all very well and will be happy to tell you about them. Just PM me if you want any more info. Good luck
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Thanks so much Tia for taking the time to write down all that info! Think that maybe BC wouldn't be the best choice so will have a look at other options..

Any suggestions for areas to research much appreciated!
 
Take a look at the expats forum,theres some good info on there

Although when we were looknig the Aus lot were far more freindly than the canadian lot, and I have relatives over there!
 
WOW, maybe inexpensive britain sound quite like home to me. I love animals and seeing the odd foxe trott across the field on an early morning but oohh dear not sure that i could cope with a grizzy, wolf or a couga; a badger is scary enough.

How on earth do the horses survive or do they not touch them?

Canada looks so beautiful on the tele its hard to beleive the problems you mentioned about water in some places and fires in others. It make Britain sound boring.

Your a mind of information though, can i ask what you needed all the land for? with 1 horse moving over (i thought the land was for horses) and in your siggy is a large herd
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My brother in law is a canadian migration officer. He is canadian and loves the country. They are based in Quebec which is beautiful, if a little cold at this time of year. They always suggest you go and visit at least twice and then it might be worth leaving your horses in England for a couple of months so you can settle in.
You can emigrate "DIY", but it can often take longer. They have info on their site and are very friendly (also have a lot of Brits!). It is worth getting an honest oppion before getting your hopes up. Hope this doesn't seem like advertising - I don't get commission!!
http://www.willsbrazolot.com
 
BC is stunningly beautiful, although believe it or not, you do actually get used to the beauty and it just is ... after a while. I adore BC though. I also took time to research around Calgary (south off Hwy22x near Spruce Meadows), however we came to Ontario first, and that was it, we found our farm and bought it, so never made it out to Alberta in the end.

Ontario is not a particularly pretty Province, but it is workable and people, at least where I live, are very lovely and welcoming. I moved here in 2004 and I remember our first summer of bringing hay in - all of our neighbours came round to help get it in before the rain came. They were (and still are) wonderful neighbours and friends
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There doesn't seem an awful lot available in Calgary right now though - I know this as I was looking on MLS 2 nights ago, Lol! There is a farm for sale in Falkland, which is near Vernon BC. It has 150-odd acres, however I know this farm and it was one which had it's hay crops burned with the fire out there. All horses had to be evacuated, as did the people obviously. It's a nice farm though and has a creek running through it. I don't remember the price offhand but if you check on MLS you will find it.

Personally, if it wasn't for the forest fires in BC, we may well have kept on looking out there but they really did put me off. Well them and the bears, Lol!

Like Enfys, I also think that we will look to move out West or South to the States eventually - probably not for another 10 or 15 years, but Ontario is not somewhere I really want to see out my old age in. It is too cold here in the winters for old people, Lol! We thoroughly enjoy our farm here for the moment; it's a one in a million farm though and the location is beautiful and suits us down to the ground as we are only 2 minutes from a decent sized town, but live at the very end of a dead end lane, so have complete privacy. We're only an hour and a half away from Toronto and we are surrounded by a number of smaller cities which are between 20 minutes and an hours drive away, so it's a very accessible area.

Oh, if you don't mind freezing weather, there is a place up near Ottawa called Ashton; it seems very horsey around there and it's quite a nice area. Kemptville is where part of the agri/equine college is and another city, Kingston, is very horsey, however they are on Canadian Shield so the growth there is not good; lack of grazing, hay crops etc.

Lots of people move to the Maritime Provinces; Nova Scotia, New Brunswick etc but it never appealed to me. Could be worth looking into though?

I personally couldn't live in the Prairie Provinces; Saskatchewan or Manitoba or the eastern part of Alberta. Too flat and boring.

I would never in a million years live in the northern Provinces - too, too cold and way too much snow.

Don't dismiss BC off the bat though - it is a pretty great place. You just don't want to be near the forest fires or the bears, there are other places out there and if you don't mind being closer to Vancouver then may be worthwhile. Northern BC is not somewhere I would like to be, however you get a lot for your money up there. I looked at a ranch with cabins there. 675 acres, including all trail horses with swimming pool and nice main house and it was cheap ... however it was 100 miles from the nearest proper town.

If you give more idea of what type of lifestyle you are craving, then I would think that one of us would be able to direct you to an area which would suit you/your business best.
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http://www.willsbrazolot.com

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I'm just getting an error page from that link
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I spent a month in Vancouver last year, I found it to be a very nice place, clean, good public transport, safe, lots to see and do, and the people were friendly enough - but you have to approach them, they don't seem to respond to smiling at them when you pass them in the street.

I'd love to go back again. From what I understand it's now getting quite difficult to emigrate to Canada

british expats is the best place to look for info, they have a very comprehensive wiki and a huge message board
 
With regards to cougars, we do have them in our area however they are sparsely populated. I have only heard a cougar call once in the time I have lived here.

Bears, well we live in the White Zone, which means we are not supposed to have bears here ... however we do. I have been frightened by bears twice in the years I've been here, but it was when I first came out - nowadays I wouldn't be as I know how to get rid of them. They do not live in this area though, they just pass through, so it would be rare to be attacked by them. Mind you every summer, a bear comes into the centre of our town - it is usually a youngster who is lost - and it always ends up the same, it gets shot whilst it is trying to hide up a tree in the high street.

There are no Grizzly bears where I live.

Moose are another problem for those who live north of here. We don't get moose down here though so not bothered by them.

Wolves/coyotes; generally they won't bother you, however they will take every opportunity to eat your dogs and cats. We are okay here as we have 3 big dogs who look after our 2 medium-sized dogs. I see wolves/coyotes pretty much every day; there are loads and loads of them. My biggest dog chased a coyote off the farm this morning. She is about twice the size of them, so they run when she goes for them! Trouble is they live in our forest. They have pups right now, so they won't go (unless she catches and kills them) until the puppies are grown a bit bigger. Then they disappear for months on end, only to return one day and the cycle continues. I have another of these big dogs though; she is just a puppy right now, but once she is grown up, both of them should be able to easily handle keeping the coyotes/wolves away permanently.

None of our horses have ever been attacked by anything. There were 2 horses killed by a cougar last summer; they were about 40 miles from me. Coyotes and wolves would try to kill foals being born, or weaker newborns, but not here as I keep all youngstock/foaling mares in the field opposite my front door. I have all of our fields totally surrounding our house, so none of the horses or youngsters are ever far away from us. My dogs guard these fields so again, nothing would bother our stock.

We have about 50 horses here. We are hay farmers also, hence the need for larger acreage. Yes the photo in my banner below is one of my herds. I run 6 herds at present.
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What a coincidence! Just been looking at Ontario and liking what we see...
Ideally much as you say, we are looking for privacy and space but not to be completely in the middle of nowhere but still with 100 acres ish (don't want much!!) We were taken by the landscape in BC but I think that allot of the properties we have looked at are just a little too remote in reality. I have a web based horsey business so can really work from anywhere but do need access to Post Office/ Couriers so would need to be within reach of civilization.
Thanks for all the suggestions its really helpful!
 
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we are looking for privacy and space but not to be completely in the middle of nowhere but still with 100 acres ish (don't want much!!)

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You will find that no problem in Ontario. There are loads and loads of 100 acre farms. Most land around here is sold in 100 acre parcels. You would probably be able to lease more if you wanted a larger acreage.

My little town which is 2 minutes drive away, has all facilities anyone needs for day to day living. Most small towns have these facilities. My town, which only has a population of 3,000 has a Post Office, a number of banks, 2 ice rinks, fairground, a bowling alley, arenas, libraries, a number of schools including a high school, squash courts, tennis courts, a public outdoor swimming pool, a number of supermarkets, clothes shops, shoe shops, tractor shops (lol!) agricultural merchants and countrystores, a number of vet practices, pet shops, about 10 chemists and a very decent sized hospital. We also have a large Provincial Park and there are many boating/jetski places as we live on a huge river with many lakes in the area. Most little towns have all of these things, so it really wouldn't matter where you went, they're all pretty much the same.

We have hi-speed Internet, some places don't have this, but this was an absolute necessity for us as my husband owns an IT company in England so needs to be able to work from here.

Our farm has 3 wells and we have a tonne of water so will never run out of it.

Are you looking for this farm to make you a living? Or would it be a hobby farm? If you wish to be able to live solely from the farm then you would need to look for a larger farm than 100 acres as it would be difficult to make money on that size. If you are looking in Ontario and you want safety and privacy, yet good access to the City, then look beyond Oshawa eastwards. If you are looking eastwards, you do not want to go north of Hwy 7, as then you run into electricity problems so if you were to move there then you would need to buy a supersized generator as they have power cuts frequently. There are also water issues up there.

Kingston is a lovely city - that's where I do most of my big shopping. It's very horsey (well everywhere in Ontario is very horsey, Lol!) and Kingston is somewhere I would consider living if our farm hadn't worked out here. Kingston is a bit further from Toronto, however it is closer to Montreal and Ottawa than us. Kingston has been having major developments recently and is turning into a very decent sized city now. It is right on Lake Ontario and right next to Thousand Islands and Rideau, so is in very lovely countryside.

I don't know west of Toronto so if you are looking in that area, Enfys and Emma are the ones to speak to.
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The only place you cannot live, is Quebec. Property prices are quite good in Quebec and it's a nice place but you have to be a citizen to live there.
 
Lobelia, it isn't difficult immigrating to Canada, it just takes a long time, and you MUST have enough points. Lots of people are let down by their points and unfortunately they are not told they don't have enough, until they are at the stage where they would have been given PR, usually 2 or 3 years down the line, so then they have wasted all that time hankering to be here, and so it is a great disappointment for them when they find that the points they thought they had, they didn't actually have.

That's city folk for you. They are the same over here too. Once you get out into the country though people are very chatty and talkative.
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Yes British Expats is the place to go if seeking Immigration advice. It is free and almost every question you could possibly come up with will be answered. There are a number of immigration officers and lawyers/consultants/etc on there and they are very helpful.
 
I'm from Ontario too (though I live in the UK now)! Southwestern Ontario (the area between Toronto and Windsor) is the most densely settled part of Canada. Compared to the UK, it's still very spacious, though. The climate is widely differentiated: January temperatures of -15 and July temperatures of +30 are not uncommon, and you can get some pretty severe storms. However, you don't get these endless depressing weeks of nothing but rain, rain, rain, and it's much further south than England, so much more daylight in the Winter. I think the incidence of large predators really depends a lot on where you are in the province; we've never seen any in our area, although I'm sure the occasional one might crop up.

In that area of the country, you're never more than 2h drive from a large city, and much closer to towns of several thousand. If you feel the need for a culture fix, there are internationally-respected orchestras, theatre festivals, museums, art galleries etc. within reach, and Toronto, while nowhere near as cool as Montreal, is actually not QUITE as horrible as most Canadians make it out to be.
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For landscape and culture, Quebec may also be worth a look to you. There is the language issue, though, depending very much on where you are in the province. OTOH, there are some struggling rural areas where it may be fairly cheap to pick up a decent-size chunk of land.

Edit: I didn't know what Tia said about having to be a citizen to live there.

Tia, why on Earth would someone want to move to the US when they can live in Canada??!
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Thanks Tia that is very interesting reading and interesting to get someone living out there view of it
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Are there many shows etc over there? Also what kind of business could you do over there on say a farm of 100 acres? Would it be possible to set up a trail riding business for tourists etc? (sorry if its a stupid question
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Sorry to be the voice of dissent but I'm Canadian and am wondering why anyone would want to leave HERE and move THERE??!!!

I used to ride hunter in Canada on borrowed horses as I couldn't afford to have my own. Horses, boarding, feed, tack, EVERYTHING is WAY more expensive. I couldn't afford to live the life I do here (two horses, two stables, haybarn, field, plus quality tack) if I moved back to Canada. Hell, I couldn't even afford riding lessons there now ($50+ per group lesson?) and I own my own business and my husband makes a good wage! My private dressage lesson here only costs me £20 (about $35) for an hour!

If you DO decide to move to Canada, DON'T move to Quebec!! That is where I'm from and although I speak French there are so many problems with the English/French divide, it's not funny. I used to get verbally assaulted all the time in my job just because I was English.

I didn't find people particulary friendly in Canada, kinda standoff-ish or maybe that is just where I was from and the circles I moved in- and yes, I grew up there. No one spoke to you on the bus, whereas here, I'm always having people strike up conversations with me on buses, banks, post office, etc.

Yes, it is a pretty country but it's much nicer here!
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I would take a long visit first and see what you think.
 
To get an idea of equestrian activities, check out: Equine Canada

I know of a couple of places near my home town that do trail rides, or horsey summer camps for children (summer camp is a pretty big deal; we did it every year), but I have no idea how lucrative that actually is.
 
Lol @ spookypony
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. I used to live in the States and would go back to where I lived in a shot. It's beautiful, pristine and well manicured there ... but mainly, MUCH cheaper than living in Canada, Lol!
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Spooky did bring up a good point though - with respects to struggling rural areas, do be very wary of buying in these areas, or you could lose your shirt so to speak. It is a very relevant point to mention. Basically I think if she is looking at farms which appear to be cheap ... they are cheap for a reason!
 
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Lol @ spookypony
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. I used to live in the States and would go back to where I lived in a shot. It's beautiful, pristine and well manicured there ... but mainly, MUCH cheaper than living in Canada, Lol!
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Spooky did bring up a good point though - with respects to struggling rural areas, do be very wary of buying in these areas, or you could lose your shirt so to speak. It is a very relevant point to mention. Basically I think if she is looking at farms which appear to be cheap ... they are cheap for a reason!

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A very good point! It might depend, though, on what the predominant crop in the area was, and how the market for that crop is...so many things! Then again, re-functioning land is probably also not exactly a trivial operation!

I lived in the States for a little while---and it's true, the cheap areas are incredibly cheap. I was put off, though, by not being able to afford proper health care. I happened to live in a rather expensive area, and I was struggling, despite what should have been a very decent salary. The lack of adequate social support and the extreme parochialism I encountered really put me off.
 
Hi Skye
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Yes there are shows over here, a fair number of them; a lot are lower level than we are used to though, however if you are prepared to travel hours and hours then you can compete in some decent ones - I'm not
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, so we stick to the little local ones.

On 100 acres, you would be hard pressed to make a pile of money - well to be honest, it just wouldn't happen; not here in Ontario.

I used to have a trail riding business and yes it was very lucrative ... for 3 months of the year! If you dump horses after trail season is over and then rebuy new ones in the Spring, then yes it would be more profitable, however I kept all my horses 12 months of the year, and although yes I still made a small profit, it just wasn't worth the cost of insurance, so I sold most of the trail horses and moved my business to primarily horses and hay sales farm and a boarding farm. As I say, we have about 50 horses, however 18 belong to me; most are seller ons.

Even in the situation I am in, there is absolutely no way you could make enough money to not work if you had a mortgage or payments for anything. I can make a half decent living because I hardly have any outgoings and I am building a nice reputation for myself in the sales/production market of my youngsters.

If you wanted to make money on this size acreage, you would need to buy on a lakefront, have cabins or trailers and run it as a camping ground. However by doing this, you would need to move out into the wilderness as the wilderness is where people go on vacations like these. I have no interest in moving out to the wilderness Lol!

You know, even if you were to grow cash-crops, you still wouldn't make much money on 100 acres. I worked out that to make a decent living purely on farming, you really need to have +1,000 acres.

Bed and Breakfasts are big business. And campsites. That's about all I can think of really that would make you money in this type of recreational aspect.

Mind you this is based on Ontario. The success would likely be greater out in BC or Alberta.
 
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I'm Canadian and am wondering why anyone would want to leave HERE and move THERE??!!!


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Lol! Blame it on my husband! It was him who wanted to come here - I wanted to go back to Pennsylvania ... actually I was quite happy living on the Berks/Hants/Wilts border
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Yes Canada is a very expensive country to live in - sadly you only find this out once you move here, so that's why a lot of people end up leaving as they didn't realise the cost and the struggles that they would encounter on being here.
 
Where did you live Spooky? I used to live out in Chester County, just outside of Philadelphia. Beautiful houses there, pretty gardens, fantastic scenery, gorgeous stables, great restaurants, plenty money in the area (just what you need for a growing business). My best friend (and my younger daughter's Godmother) lives there so I still go back every year to stay with her ... and every time I go there, I come back wishing that Ontario was just a bit more preened
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I lived in Boston and then near Sacramento. Both areas are hideously expensive, and especially Boston made me aware of a depth of class and racial divide that I'd never encountered before. And at $90/lesson and $600+/month for livery, I could never ever have afforded a horse in either place!

It's true though: in Canada, I'd have a hard time affording a horse, and being able to hack to two show venues? Forget it! Not to mention XC: we never did XC, which scared the pants off me last summer, but now I can't wait to learn more!
 
Ooh I love Boston
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. I had a boyfriend who lived there and I loved going up there to visit him. Down in the MainLine outside Philly, the racial divide isn't really that noticable except in Philly itself really. Anyone who lives on the MainLine has money, regardless of their colour or religion, so I didn't really see that when I lived there.

Yes I miss XC. There are a couple of courses around here, but they are tiddly little things and I just wouldn't be bothered trailering all the way there. Further afield there are some that look okay although I've never been there so am just going on photos. This summer we are planning on showing in a different area - we are located between 2 competition areas, and for the past few years we've always gone north, but this year we are planning on going south to see what they are like.

Where do you live now?

Thanks for the conversation by the way; it's been great
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. I only came on here to reply to BMs PM and now have been sucked into this really good chat. It's been pouring rain here all afternoon so kept me clean and out of mischief, Lol!
 
Thanks Tia and everyone else your input has been really helpful!
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Certainly given me a lot to think about as i have family members in Oz who are trying to persuade me to go over there but doesnt appeal as much as Canada or the states
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Was looking at the States but would have absolutly no idea where to go! I loved New York but know that i would probably end up in a tiny little apartment in a horrible area miles away
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Unfortunatly its different going on holiday and staying right in the centre of NY by Times Square and actually moving out there
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If only i had mega millions...
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