Anyone into pugs?

[Equi]

As per title. involves colour/genetics etc so please PM if you're interested

(not for me i dont have a pug lol but seeking info for family and thus don't want to put out the dogs info publicly)

 

[Bellasophia]

Pugs...wonderful characters but woefully plagued by ill health ,due to years of inbreeding.
healthy pugs can exist but they tend to be built taller than the standard,with faces ” too long” so they can actually draw a breath.I met one black pug in USA ,years ago,,that fitted this description and ran every day with his young owner.i remember this dog well as he was such a rarity.


http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.com/2018/09/pugs-end-is-nigh-well-as-we-know-them.html


“A study by Imperial College, London, showed that the 10,000 Pugs in the UK are so inbred that their gene pool is the equivalent of only 50 individuals.”

and pug colours...
http://tussilagopugs.co.uk/pug-colours/4594402247

http://www.petpugdog.com/pug-dog-colors

https://sites.google.com/site/dhoderny/pugknowledge

 

[islander]

I have kept mostly rescue pugs, only one had chronic breathing difficulties, none had longer noses, which l agree would have been better for the breed. All were not allowed to become overweight and loved their exercise. Black pugs are said to be more feisty and outgoing which l must say is my experience, though limited to ones l have had at home or have met.

 

[Bellasophia]

And here are some outcrossing programs to save the pug from extinction..

https://retropugclub.com/about-the-irpc/

https://pugdogpassion.com/genetic-diversity/

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/disc...gs-such-as-pugs-and-bulldogs-from-poor-health

https://www.gesunde-bulldoggen.com/outcross/

 

[ihatework]

They can be lovely little characters but I’m afraid I just cannot really buy into these flat faced breeds.

Whilst not wanting one myself I’d be more open to consideration of a crossbreed. My clueless neighbour bought what he was told was a pug x chi, he was done over on that front, looks more pug x staffy - but he has also struck gold - the dog has a delightful temperament and despite his woeful ineptitude around animals the dog is adapting ? Looks like mutely mind, with its undershot jaw. Puppy farmed for sure.

 

[Equi]

Quick question then for those that know, pug is Black and Tan which I know is not a recognised colour so to speak, and the papers just say black - is this a bit sneaky or does it matter?

 

[blackcob]

Sneaky in that it should have been registered as ‘Colour Not Recognised’; I think the KC have not long overhauled this system though and it would now be registered as ‘Non Breed Standard - Black and Tan’.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I wouldn't support a breeder that deliberately breeds for non standard colour, of any breed.

 

[blackcob]

I think the question you haven’t quite asked is ‘are there potential pitfalls to buying a pedigree dog of a non standard colour’ which would be a really interesting discussion for after work if someone would please ask that. ?

 

[Equi]

Fire away lol

it doesn’t effect me personally it’s just an interesting topic. I’m fond of breed standards but know zero about the breed.

 

[Cortez]

I absolutely love pugs, but will never buy a purebred. The crosses, or "retropugs" are lovely and I plan to have one as my "Old Lady" dog.

 

[Bellasophia]

Not an expert on pugs but I suspect the pug has perhaps pincher in his breeding..
the link above on retro pugs is a group of serious people who have been introducing other breeds into the first crosses ( even jack russels) to improve the phenotype and health of the breed.
I would hope they are paying a modest sum for the pup,which in every respect is a cross breed.

Quote from link..
“The amount of donor breed in a Retro Pug is about 20-5% and the donor breeds allowed are Parson Russell Terrier, leggy Jack Russell Terrier and Miniature Pinscher. These breeds are generally very healthy and have a low inbreeding coeifficient. They can give the Pug anatomical characteristics that it lacks, such as more slenderness, a firmer connective tissue, embedded eyes, longer nose and good nostrils and a longer back and neck as well as greatly improved genetics.”

 

[blackcob]

Non standard colours frequently comes up as a topic on the dog show pages and causes much gnashing of teeth. Arguments include...

The dogs can't possibly be purebred, something has been crossed in to introduce the colour. Likely true in many cases, in others the colours have always been naturally occurring in the breed, it's just that they were either historically culled or left unregistered and placed in pet homes. You might argue that a sneaky infusion of outside genes actually benefits an otherwise closed gene pool and especially in something as trainwrecky as a pug but this is unthinkable in those circles. ?

People fib and put a standard colour on the registration to avoid 'Colour Not Recognised', which at best might lead to a few surprise colours popping up in litters further down the line but at worst risks health and welfare consequences (thinking unknown merle, dilutes, white factors etc.) As mentioned above the registration criteria have recently changed so that even if branded 'Non Breed Standard' it will now list the actual colour, whereas before everything got lumped under the single heading of CNR.

In some breeds more CNRs or at least 'undesirable' colours are registered than standard colours - I remember seeing that in a recent year 68% of Staffordshire bull terrier registered were blue, which is permitted in the standard but obviously symptomatic of breeding for fashion/popularity/£££.

Talking of which, people can be swindled into paying over the odds for colours that are viewed as fashionable, exotic or rare. This demand fuels those breeding solely for colour. If someone was looking to purchase a registered pedigree of a non standard colour they ought to ask themselves why it was bred, because unfortunately these days the answer is likely 'because I can sell it for more' which doesn't fill you with confidence about the potential health or temperament of the dog.

Playing devil's advocate, outside of health issues associated with certain colours a lot of colour issues in breed standards are pretty arbitrary. I have one breed which has no restrictions on colour at all. I have another breed which can only be exhibited in black in Europe and the US, but which allows cream or gold (genetically yellow) in the UK. Despite this, there's plenty of UK judges that won't consider a cream dog. Livers crop up from time to time too. ?

 

[Cortez]

Breeding for colour alone is a problem in breeding ANY animal, I would think. There has recently been a craze for dilute colours (creams, duns, etc.) in PRE horses which has led to some distinctly questionable practices, and dodgy conformation, emerging in the breed. "Pedigree" breeding is a fairly recent idea anyway, another Victorian idea that has led to extremes.

 

[Bellasophia]

In Victorian times it is true dogs were bred for a purpose,but they had a purpose and did it well.
In modern day weve bred for purpose without giving the lifestyle..leading to neurotic dogs ill fitted for suburban lifestyles.
Now they breed for colour ,“rare colours ”that years ago were culled out of a litter as they often were associated with serious issues such as deafness ,skin ailments and even blindness.
Size is another thing..the standard of a breed states size and weight..how many dysplastic dogs carry the “royale” size description?
My Rottweiler ,from red pedigree German dogs , was 42 kg ....in USA we met dogs twice her size..most with hip issues.
My mini schnauzer is from a Belgian / russian line,all ch titled..how many times I’ve been told she’s too small...I reply she’s to standard..but the minis we see are all like tiny ponies,so they become the new normal.
Minipinchers now are crossed with chihuahua ...advertised here as mini,mini,toy sized...lux pats ,bulging eyes, certainly not fit for a days ratting..
it goes on and on.
..yet the breed clubs are reticent to allow controlled input of the very dogs that once created a breed to be reintroduced to a limited breeding program to bring back diversity ( example using pointers in Dalmatian breeding )

https://www.vin.com/apputil/content/defaultadv1.aspx?pId=11340&id=5101841&print=1
Certainly a ramble on my part but I do roll my eyes at the rare colors and inflated prices ,usually going hand in hand with future big vet bills for the unsuspecting new puppy buyer.