Rollin
Well-Known Member
What about a Criollo?
Anyone know any Dun (not Buckskin) Stallions at stud 15hh mark?
- Thread starter Cpt Stumpy
- Start date
Cpt Stumpy
Member
Wow didn't realise so many people would be interested.
Pure Highlands have in there gene pool, Black and Chestnut, with Modifiers Agouti (Bay), Dun, Silver and Grey.
There is a friend of mine intending to write a article in hopes of getting it published in the H&H about the extinction of colours in pure breed stock.
The motivation for the article was influenced quiet recently, as the H&H don't have a colour choice of 'Buckskin' all Buckskin's had to be listed on this site as 'Dun' and the seller had to describe there animals as Buckskin in the long description to correct the advert.
Recently H&H made a article called '8 Delightful Dun's for sale' the lady who wrote the article, had linked photo's of 8 horses for sale on the site described by the site as 'Dun' in colour (even when the sellers had described Buckskin in the long description) all 8 horses she'd found were buckskin's.
The article was also on facebook, and as you could expect the debate started, the genetically educated were less than impressed that the H&H got all the colours wrong. The less educated insulted the educated, using my favourite argument of ignorance fallacy.
H&H's first response blocked all commenting on the article and added the disclaimer that they couldn't be held responsible.
Oddly that was short lived, the article had its name and description changed to Dun's and Buckskin's. and H&H on the facebook side of the comments said they would add in 'Buckskin' as a colour.
( http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/feat...ForSale&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social )
Her other motivation is she's one of the last owner's of True Dun Pure Welsh ponies, there are only 4 left in the EU to the groups combined knowledge, and one more in the US, possibly more they've yet to find, though they have been looking for some time now. It was previously believed Dun in welsh ponies was already extinct. she's hoping the article will educate some to the plight of the colours. Highlands I believe are also at risk of loosing 'Silver' gene.
As far as Red (Chestnut) Dun's they don't display the marking that well, but I've found a couple with clear markings:
I don't really fancy going though the AI frozen semen direction, its expensive, comes with risks and at the end of the day the foal would never be worth the combined price and effort just to make it. There was going to have to be some kind of effort to create something that is currently lacking in the English breeding pool, but financially I can't risk a significant loss. even assuming I could produce a Dunalino Colt (which would be best outcome) his colour wouldn't be truly appreciated in this country, and not having the broodmare capable of producing a event type foal. he'd be limited in ability and prospects.
Pure Highlands have in there gene pool, Black and Chestnut, with Modifiers Agouti (Bay), Dun, Silver and Grey.
There is a friend of mine intending to write a article in hopes of getting it published in the H&H about the extinction of colours in pure breed stock.
The motivation for the article was influenced quiet recently, as the H&H don't have a colour choice of 'Buckskin' all Buckskin's had to be listed on this site as 'Dun' and the seller had to describe there animals as Buckskin in the long description to correct the advert.
Recently H&H made a article called '8 Delightful Dun's for sale' the lady who wrote the article, had linked photo's of 8 horses for sale on the site described by the site as 'Dun' in colour (even when the sellers had described Buckskin in the long description) all 8 horses she'd found were buckskin's.
The article was also on facebook, and as you could expect the debate started, the genetically educated were less than impressed that the H&H got all the colours wrong. The less educated insulted the educated, using my favourite argument of ignorance fallacy.
H&H's first response blocked all commenting on the article and added the disclaimer that they couldn't be held responsible.
Oddly that was short lived, the article had its name and description changed to Dun's and Buckskin's. and H&H on the facebook side of the comments said they would add in 'Buckskin' as a colour.
( http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/feat...ForSale&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social )
Her other motivation is she's one of the last owner's of True Dun Pure Welsh ponies, there are only 4 left in the EU to the groups combined knowledge, and one more in the US, possibly more they've yet to find, though they have been looking for some time now. It was previously believed Dun in welsh ponies was already extinct. she's hoping the article will educate some to the plight of the colours. Highlands I believe are also at risk of loosing 'Silver' gene.
As far as Red (Chestnut) Dun's they don't display the marking that well, but I've found a couple with clear markings:
I don't really fancy going though the AI frozen semen direction, its expensive, comes with risks and at the end of the day the foal would never be worth the combined price and effort just to make it. There was going to have to be some kind of effort to create something that is currently lacking in the English breeding pool, but financially I can't risk a significant loss. even assuming I could produce a Dunalino Colt (which would be best outcome) his colour wouldn't be truly appreciated in this country, and not having the broodmare capable of producing a event type foal. he'd be limited in ability and prospects.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I suppose the thing is that if you don't import you are really restricting the type you are going to be able to breed just for the colour. Icelandic perhaps?!
One of Rara's chestnuts does look a bit red dun, though it could just be countershading- dorsal stripe, leg barring and a slightly odd colour for a chestnut. He's a dutch riding pony with a high arab percentage. Hopefully she won't mind me adding a pic
I think you can kind of see the leg shading on this one.
One of Rara's chestnuts does look a bit red dun, though it could just be countershading- dorsal stripe, leg barring and a slightly odd colour for a chestnut. He's a dutch riding pony with a high arab percentage. Hopefully she won't mind me adding a pic
I think you can kind of see the leg shading on this one.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
I found one! 
http://www.aqha-uk.co.uk/classified-adverts/stallions-at-stud/2014/07/08/hawkwood-arizona/
He's in North Wales.
Also a chestnut Dun colt for sale. http://www.aqha-uk.co.uk/classified-adverts/foals/2014/11/12/billy-buck-hollywood2/
http://www.aqha-uk.co.uk/classified-adverts/stallions-at-stud/2014/07/08/hawkwood-arizona/
He's in North Wales.
Also a chestnut Dun colt for sale. http://www.aqha-uk.co.uk/classified-adverts/foals/2014/11/12/billy-buck-hollywood2/
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Cpt Stumpy
Member
Gold Star for Faracat!!
Cpt Stumpy
Member
I found one!
http://www.aqha-uk.co.uk/classified-adverts/stallions-at-stud/2014/07/08/hawkwood-arizona/
He's in North Wales.
Also a chestnut Dun colt for sale. http://www.aqha-uk.co.uk/classified-adverts/foals/2014/11/12/billy-buck-hollywood2/
That is a awesome find, but I think the contact details are old :/ I've had no response. and a baby red dun is a little young to do the job I want
tabithakat64
Well-Known Member
They have a faceache page, which there are some recent posts on, you could try that...
honetpot
Well-Known Member
T
Also http://www.brownbreadstud.com/page5.htm
I have a double dilute Connemara, which used to be culled as they had no understanding that the dilute gene produced the dun Connemara, and often the greying gene had masked the dilute gene, which has been present in the breed way back in the stud book. Its sad that now everyone thinks a Connemara should be grey, I have three bay mares.
Colour genetics is complicated, but the greying out gene washs out the horses base colour, so my pony was the product of a grey mare who obviously carried the dilute gene and a dun stallion , who's dilute gene was obvious.
There are chestnut Highland ponies, which usually come from Rhum blood lines, they tend to be smaller in size and have some beautiful colour shading including silver manes. FB Highland pony group has a photo of one of these. https://www.facebook.com/groups/4626919367/
Also http://www.brownbreadstud.com/page5.htm
I have a double dilute Connemara, which used to be culled as they had no understanding that the dilute gene produced the dun Connemara, and often the greying gene had masked the dilute gene, which has been present in the breed way back in the stud book. Its sad that now everyone thinks a Connemara should be grey, I have three bay mares.
Colour genetics is complicated, but the greying out gene washs out the horses base colour, so my pony was the product of a grey mare who obviously carried the dilute gene and a dun stallion , who's dilute gene was obvious.
Cpt Stumpy
Member
The Rhum bloodlines are legend to the rare colour obsessed, but not for chestnut those mares are Silver black.
I didn't realise till this year (after hunting for a red-dun through the Highland's FB groups first) That silver even existed in the Highlands. though its fast loosing ground there isn't a Silver highland stallion or colt to be found anymore. and those mares aren't young. their are odd silver's still about in the breed (both Black base and Bay) but for showing they are heavily looked down upon
I didn't realise till this year (after hunting for a red-dun through the Highland's FB groups first) That silver even existed in the Highlands. though its fast loosing ground there isn't a Silver highland stallion or colt to be found anymore. and those mares aren't young. their are odd silver's still about in the breed (both Black base and Bay) but for showing they are heavily looked down upon
keenbean
New User
dianchi
Well-Known Member
Silly question here.......
Why are you trying to breed a colour?
Seems the breed of horse here is irrelevant which i find a different approach to "usual" breeding.
Noo right or wrong here, was just intrigued by this colour need?
Why are you trying to breed a colour?
Seems the breed of horse here is irrelevant which i find a different approach to "usual" breeding.
Noo right or wrong here, was just intrigued by this colour need?
Cpt Stumpy
Member
Sorry Patchy White is a Buckskin (no dun's in Connemara or Thoroughbred)
The Mare I'm using isn't a pure breed, she's a beautiful animal her only visual fault is slightly pigeon toed at the front, (I notice it but when she was shown locally the judge & assistant for her class didn't) She moves straight her legs are straight, with a easy and friendly personality. Placed on her first time showing.
Being crossbred means their is no standard to breed her towards, her personality doesn't need improving on, Her minor fault wasn't passed on to her last foal. And if she had seen a farrier in her younger years I believe she wouldn't be pigeon toed.
I have a passion of colours and in the UK Real Dun is rare, only found natively in Shetlands, Highlands and 4 Welsh A Pure Ponies. Your more likely to see True Dun in American/European imports.
Dunalino is what I want to breed, because their aren't any in the UK certainly none you can find anyway. People like pretty colours, but they don't always like to be corrected. The Dun Welsh Ponies are facing extinction. There are no Dun Welsh Stallions or Colts.
If I Did breed one, its bringing back a colour we're loosing in our native animals, Highlands are nearly all grey, and facing their own colour extinction (Silver gene) Shetlands are never really going to be a adults working horse/pony, and true dun's are still unusual. The Dun Welsh ponies are on the brink of extinction when you can count how many are left on one hand its safe to say they're beyond hope.
If this thread has proven anything else other than I'm a fuss-pot for colour and genetics. its proven just How rare Dun really is.
The Mare I'm using isn't a pure breed, she's a beautiful animal her only visual fault is slightly pigeon toed at the front, (I notice it but when she was shown locally the judge & assistant for her class didn't) She moves straight her legs are straight, with a easy and friendly personality. Placed on her first time showing.
Being crossbred means their is no standard to breed her towards, her personality doesn't need improving on, Her minor fault wasn't passed on to her last foal. And if she had seen a farrier in her younger years I believe she wouldn't be pigeon toed.
I have a passion of colours and in the UK Real Dun is rare, only found natively in Shetlands, Highlands and 4 Welsh A Pure Ponies. Your more likely to see True Dun in American/European imports.
Dunalino is what I want to breed, because their aren't any in the UK certainly none you can find anyway. People like pretty colours, but they don't always like to be corrected. The Dun Welsh Ponies are facing extinction. There are no Dun Welsh Stallions or Colts.
If I Did breed one, its bringing back a colour we're loosing in our native animals, Highlands are nearly all grey, and facing their own colour extinction (Silver gene) Shetlands are never really going to be a adults working horse/pony, and true dun's are still unusual. The Dun Welsh ponies are on the brink of extinction when you can count how many are left on one hand its safe to say they're beyond hope.
If this thread has proven anything else other than I'm a fuss-pot for colour and genetics. its proven just How rare Dun really is.
millikins
Well-Known Member
I sympathise. I have a real dun, grulla though not chestnut and I too would like to find a dun stallion to breed her to. Before anyone jumps on me I would intend to keep a foal If you can only find a couple of adult sized stallions, there are none at all in the 11-13hh size.
If you can only find a couple of adult sized stallions, there are none at all in the 11-13hh size.
Kallibear
Well-Known Member
The problem with Rhum ponies is that, although they are technically a Highland Pony and do come in interesting colours, they're not very 'highlandy'. They also often have white markings 
They tend to look more like large Eriskay ponies. And therefore don't do well showing so aren't hugely sought after and therefore not 'mass produced'. I've spent quite a lot of time at Highland Pony shows over the last couple of years (the problems with having Highland Pony friends!) and have see ONE potential chestnut (a dun filly foal who looked like she was greying out)
They tend to look more like large Eriskay ponies. And therefore don't do well showing so aren't hugely sought after and therefore not 'mass produced'. I've spent quite a lot of time at Highland Pony shows over the last couple of years (the problems with having Highland Pony friends!) and have see ONE potential chestnut (a dun filly foal who looked like she was greying out)melbobineau
Well-Known Member
So have you found any True Dun stallion for your mare.
Indeed there isn't a lot of them.
They are quite frequent in Fjords, Quarters, Highlands, Mustangs.
But also 2 french breeds:
- the henson (a saddle breed from the Baie de somme region with high influence of fjord blood crossed with saddle horses and thorowbreed. Hence a lot of them are bay dun without pangare or silver gene.
- the Poitevin. This a draft horse breed from my parents region (poitou charente) which share origine with shire/clyd as origine come from europe northem great horse cross with the local breed. The dun colour which is encouraged (specially grulla colour) comming probably from the spanish invasions. As they are bony instead of "meaty" they weren't made really heavier for the meat market after war. Altough this lead them to near extinction. And cross breed with other french draft horse to avoid inbreeding lead to make some of them a bit on the too heavy side. However by breeding a lighter one to a saddle horse or better a hot blood they made very good warmblood kind of horse but this cross is rare as most of the mare are used in the breeding of the breed or traditional mule poitevine (with a poitevin donkey).
Indeed there isn't a lot of them.
They are quite frequent in Fjords, Quarters, Highlands, Mustangs.
But also 2 french breeds:
- the henson (a saddle breed from the Baie de somme region with high influence of fjord blood crossed with saddle horses and thorowbreed. Hence a lot of them are bay dun without pangare or silver gene.
- the Poitevin. This a draft horse breed from my parents region (poitou charente) which share origine with shire/clyd as origine come from europe northem great horse cross with the local breed. The dun colour which is encouraged (specially grulla colour) comming probably from the spanish invasions. As they are bony instead of "meaty" they weren't made really heavier for the meat market after war. Altough this lead them to near extinction. And cross breed with other french draft horse to avoid inbreeding lead to make some of them a bit on the too heavy side. However by breeding a lighter one to a saddle horse or better a hot blood they made very good warmblood kind of horse but this cross is rare as most of the mare are used in the breeding of the breed or traditional mule poitevine (with a poitevin donkey).
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