Anyone know anything about the French Trotter horse

[Poppys Nannan]

As in title really, what are they like to handle, look after, care for
what sort of height are they and what sort of weight do they carry
do they tend to mature early or late etc etc

cheers x

 

[minkymoo]

I don't know a vast amount, but my best friend has one and she events her (took her to Badminton Grassroots last year).

She is a lovely kind mare and super to ride, but I know it took her an age to teach her to canter even though she never raced.

Other than that, I don't know alot about the breed, sorry.

 

[Shantara]

I ride a trotter X and he's brilliant! He's such a nice horse and great to ride.
Archie can carry quite a lot of weight and he's not that tall. I think he may be crossed with a Welsh horse? Perhaps. I have no idea, but he's only about 15hh, roughly.

 

[Mahoganybay]

Don't know too much about French Trotters, but i have a Standardbred mare who is from a Danish mare and American stallion. She is 15.1 and copes fine with carrying me (i'm 5'7" and weigh 10 stone).

She does struggle to canter and at present can only really canter in straight lines, but she is a work in progress. She is a lovely natured mare most of the time but can have her 'mare' moments. She has solid feet although they are quite small (Cleveland Bay in her i am told).

I have had a number of stop/starts with her due to injuries (fractured pedal bone & at present she is recovering from a chip fracture at the end of her tibia), so we are not as far on in her education as i would have hoped.

There was a lady at our yard who did have a French Trotter, she was about 16hh and was very very fast in all gaits.

 

[Sauerkraut]

Not much about French trotter but I too have an American standardbred. He was a pacer but retrained and yet not seen him pacing

He canters fine, jumps and is a lovely horse. Carries his head quite high tho.

 

[Mahoganybay]

Not much about French trotter but I too have an American standardbred. He was a pacer but retrained and yet not seen him pacing

He canters fine, jumps and is a lovely horse. Carries his head quite high tho.[/QUOTE

My mare's Great Grandsire was quite a famous harness racer in the US and won quite alot of races, he was called Speedy Crown.

She will pace if she gets too excited and it feels really strange to sit too and boy is she fast.

Hopefully when she gets over this latest injury we will be able to 'crack on'.

Do you have a photo of your Standardbred HelloKitty?

 

[nikCscott]

I had a French Trotter x TB he was only 14hh but he had 2 full brothers of 16.2hh He took ages to learn to canter and it was always and awkward canter but wow could he jump JA in a couple of years.

He was a joy to own and the most loyal horse I have ever had - horse/pony of a lifetime

 

[Captain Bridget]

I've shared a French Trotter, he's in my sig. He's 16.2hh, more lightweight than anything else but not lightweight like a TB.. He can be totally grumpy but that's just him, generally he's lovely, not very cuddly but does like a fuss now and again. He's fairly easy to care for, lives out most of the time, does pretty well on a bit of chaff and comp mix, hay and grass.

He has a fab jump, when he wants, loves to gallop, hunting is his thing. He's not got the best conformation, he's long but upright so really working through is difficult for him but again, that's just him. He loves his job and really tries for you, just sometimes he doesn't understand. He's still quite babyish even though he's 8, he's not done a lot other than hunting. He came over from France aged 4 and we don't know what he did before then. I doubt he raced because of his confo issues.

He does carry his head high and because this hadn't been corrected he had a lot of muscle on the underneath of his neck but I schooled him for a while, getting him working long and low a lot and this really improved. I think if his owner was more committed to this, or I hadn't moved, he'd eventually have gone quite nicely!

If you want any photos or more info on him feel free to PM me.

 

[Miss L Toe]

French trotters are big TB types, if they have been trotting they will pace, and this is very difficult to "get rid of", I have been involved with one, she had a lovely nature, but needed an experienced and sympathetic rider. Was sold for a small amount to a good home, where she came on and did very well.

 

[Captain Bridget]

Just to add, once you asserted yourself he was a lamb to handle, but could take the pee if he felt he could. He was a speedy horse, walk was quick, trot was either glacial or zooming and canter was just wall of death in the arena, out hacking or in the field he was fantastic. He enjoyed straight lines more than corners.

I'm 5'8 and 8 stone 7 or something and he worked well for me, his owner is taller and heavier and he didn't work so well through his back for her, but he was long backed. I think if he had better conformation he'd have been a fantastic horse.

 

[Sauerkraut]

Not much about French trotter but I too have an American standardbred. He was a pacer but retrained and yet not seen him pacing

He canters fine, jumps and is a lovely horse. Carries his head quite high tho.[/QUOTE

My mare's Great Grandsire was quite a famous harness racer in the US and won quite alot of races, he was called Speedy Crown.

She will pace if she gets too excited and it feels really strange to sit too and boy is she fast.

Hopefully when she gets over this latest injury we will be able to 'crack on'.

Do you have a photo of your Standardbred HelloKitty?

This is Buddy:

 

[classicalfan]

Think TB and you're almost there. It can take a while to get a good trot/canter transition. They don't pace. They trot. If they paced they woun't be trotters. But the hind legs can often come foreward enough to rach outside of the foreleg so they don't track up (or over-reach in the conventional sense), obvisoulylike a conventional trot when they are going at full tilt (often faster than other horses canter).

I know someone that show jumped at Grade C and did Grand Prix, all on the same french trotter.

 

[ElvisandTilly]

I have a 16.3hh French trotter. He's 9 now but didn't stop growing till he was in his 7th year!

He is fab to handle and is more like owning a puppy than a horse!

He never raced but has the big wide behind trot that has taken some schooling to get him engaging from behind but now he has the idea he really can move lovely. French trotters don't pace they trot diagonal when racing but their trot is wide behind and on forehand. Watch some vids on you tube of French trotters racing.

If you have a look at the forum http://frenchtrotters.freeforums.org/viewforum.php?f=6&start= you will find lots of owners blogs with lots of info on the day to day life of a French trotter!

 

[Queenbee]

This is Buddy:

HK, I love buddy, I fell in love with him when i saw the above pictures while you had him on trail, glad it worked out for you P.S. wasn't he being a little 'testing' to catch? How is he now?

 

[Lanky Loll]

To get an idea of how far a French trotter can go - Jappeloup is an excellent example Jappeloup at Hickstead GP.

For those of you with Trotters or Standardbreds this site Sukuposti is a great database with pics where they've been able to get them, for example here's Speedy Crown's page for HelloKitty.

 

[minkymoo]

Pacing v trotting (courtesy of Wikipedia!)

The Pace is a lateral two-beat gait. In the pace, the two legs on the same side of the horse move forward together, unlike the trot, where the two legs diagonally opposite from each other move forward together. In both the pace and the trot, two feet are always off the ground.

As far as I am aware ( and as I mentioned - I don't know a vast amount about the breed) a pacer & trotter aren't the same and a French Trotter is pretty much a tb. My friends is a big girl, much broader than most normal tb's I know of and boy is she fast! She only Trots when she's tired or she doesn't like the ground.

 

[Sauerkraut]

Sorry can't quote with the phone. @queensbee: haha yes the catching! Just answered on another post about it. We got much better until yard owner had to get him in one day and he wouldn't have it. We were back to square one. Had to give up yesterday for the first time as I had to get kids back from school. Tonight no problem!!! Cheeky bugger lol

 

[Queenbee]

Sorry can't quote with the phone. @queensbee: haha yes the catching! Just answered on another post about it. We got much better until yard owner had to get him in one day and he wouldn't have it. We were back to square one. Had to give up yesterday for the first time as I had to get kids back from school. Tonight no problem!!! Cheeky bugger lol

PMSL! Ebony is so like that, she has a 'select few' I refer to them as 'the chosen' who her holyness will deign to let catch her, I think she as probably been a cow about 3 times in the last 9 months, once was the other day when her old owners came to see her and she was having none of it, then came quiet as a lamb waiting at the fence for me like butter wouldn't melt as soon as they had left her field and driven from the yard!

Wherever there is a dark cloud I can always find the silver lining though... NO ONE can ever get close enough to catch her and steal her from the field

 

[JCWHITE]

Nothing to do with original question, there is a film being made about Jappeloup, as he was bred near me.I went to an audition to be part of the crowd scenes!
Otherwise my experience of French trotters is that they can make good hacking horses.

 

[Trotter81]

French trotters even tho raced will not pace simply because they are trotters not pacers x

 

[Georg33]

Hi just wondering if u know anything about standard bred freeze markings as my horse sounds similar to yours mall feet and possibly Danish breeding? He has DK92047 on his neck thanks x

 

[kandor]

I've had my French trotter for 13 years, bought him when he was 3. He's had standard trotter training but never made the time so was sold cheap on the famous market at Lessay.
Once they're trained, you'll probably need a professional to teach them a collected canter again unless you're a good rider. I assumed he would get the nice canter back with time. He was my first horse and I was clueless... years on he canters all right but it might have been better... we do no competitions but just hack around and do trails and stuff.

A few useful facts:
I couldn't recommend a better natured horse.
Trotters are extremely tough, many people do endurance with trotters.
Because of their muscular hindquarters they're usually good jumpers.
Trotters were not bred as riding horses so don't expect a beautiful body type or standard conformation: they often have a typical trotter shoulder and hind legs, and a Roman nose.
They can develop spavin (my horse has) because of the pressure put on the hocks during their racing career/training.
Trotter training is quite brutal: in the worst case they take a youngster and fasten it to a sulky without any warning, I've heard of one that was so frightened that it had to be driven into a pond to slow it down and it drowned... Their heads are fastened horizontally (aerodynamics?) and sometimes their tongues are tied to the side of their mouths so that they don't 'swallow' it during racing. Their mouths are submitted to constant pressure during the race, so trotters don't usually react to bit pressure by slowing down: it's the opposite they understand. You see many French trotters with a pelham and their heads held high. The trotting movement (after training) isn't a regular parallel one anymore: to avoid hitting their front legs with the back ones, they have to reach out crab-like with the back legs. Hard to explain but very unpleasant. Some do this but not all.

Retraining a trotter consists in riding him slowly, lungeing him often do teach him vocal orders and particularly over poles to help him into a canter, using a light bit instead of heavy stuff, long-reining him, encouraging him to put his head down etc.

But if you buy one as a baby, or retrain him immediately after he's been 'race-trained', you'll have the loveliest horse. I adore mine even if he's a bit break-neck sometimes. I would put a picture of him here but I don't know how... I'm useless!

 

[niagaraduval]

I have owned one for the last 10 years, he is 13.

I have also ridden many as they are a very popular breed over here.

What would you like to know ?

Here is a picture of my boy.


http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2014/35/1409303166-263642-226471214041052-4466661-n.jpg

Kandor - I think that's a really good post you made and sums them up exactly !

 

[Dave's Mam]

I have looked after many Standardbreds. Kandor's post sums up Trotters & Pacers brilliantly, especially the Roman nose. One of ours was a Champion racer, but he was no oil painting! I also remember the wonderful nature, we had an entire stallion, who, at an imposing 17 hands, was an absolute kitten to handle & would hack out in busy urban traffic. Crikey, the memories that are flooding back!

 

[Lanky Loll]

I have looked after many Standardbreds. Kandor's post sums up Trotters & Pacers brilliantly, especially the Roman nose. One of ours was a Champion racer, but he was no oil painting! I also remember the wonderful nature, we had an entire stallion, who, at an imposing 17 hands, was an absolute kitten to handle & would hack out in busy urban traffic. Crikey, the memories that are flooding back!

Kandor's post is a good summation of trotters but not so accurate on the training - at least that which I've done and witnessed in the UK. Our pacers were broken in the same manner to which we'd approach riding horses - hours of long reining, starting with simple harness and building up to going in a cart, hardly "brutal".

Also their assessment of the way of going is rather in accurate.

Head's are high for balance - especially for pacers where we usually use an overcheck, and also because a horse dropping it's head as some do to evade the bit can be rather dangerous when hopples are being used (again this is for pacers rather than trotters). But the overcheck is introduced slowly along with the rest of the tack, and will often only be used for fast work at home and at the races, ours always had it removed as soon as a work out was completed so that the horses could relax and stretch out in walk.
Tongues are tied on occasion - some trainers do it all the time, we only ever did it for horses that got their tongues over the bit. They're not tied to the side though and it's rather kinder than it's made to sound in K's post....
Also the mouths being constantly hung on to... that depends on the horse and driver, some do run on a strong contact, some don't, because they're driven rather than ridden you can't exactly use your seat and leg aids to get the same responses so hand and voice have to work together, but again this will be down to individual trainers.

Can't beat a good standardbred and there are starting to be a few out and about SJ and BE. There's a half standie that we bred (Standie x Appaloosa) out at Novice at the moment Like French Trotters they were originally based on a pure TB but were bred for their gait - the pace - so eventually became their own breed.

 

[kandor]

Lanky Loll,

I'm glad your training method is more humane, and I hope trotters' training isn't as harsh as I described everywhere in the world. However as racing trotters constitute a huge income particularly here in Normandy the horses are seen as an industry, and I have heard many such stories and seen some of it first hand. I don't like to dwell in trotters' stables for long, they look unhappy and after their effort are just thrown back into their field, often without a shelter or rug, still soaking wet... and when you consider that their tongues are often tied with a chain...
Once again, I hope it's not done everywhere.

Another indicator of the consideration these horses are given: out of all the trotters that are born, two thirds (or three quarters?) aren't qualified and are sold or - mostly - sent directly to the knackers. If they don't make money, they cost money, and no Norman trainer in his right mind would keep a useless horse.

Here's a link to the page of a woman who rides and promotes side-saddle riding, she loves trotters too and has a few lovely pictures of the stuff that's put on trotters' heads (note the bicycle chain) and in their mouths... enjoy (you have to scroll down a bit):

http://amazone2000.free.fr/race/trotteur.htm

PS all I've talked about concerns trotters, not pacers. I don't pretend to know anything about pacers.

 

[kandor]

But things are changing slowly and trotters are treated diffently in other countries, as you've shown LL. In Sweden they have trotters too and there they're ridden in dressage as well as racing.
And to put things into perspective, let's just say that whatever is done to trotters it can't ever be as bad as the soring etc that Tennessee Walkers are submitted to.

 

[Lanky Loll]

Unfortunately K there are harsh conditions the world over if you know where to look. A lot of the "Trotting" over here as opposed to pacing is done within the travelling community, and whilst I do know that some are well cared for, for others the life is rotten We don't have so many trotting races here so the legal racing is few and far between, many are raced on roads with big money changing hands on the betting side and it's getting more and more out of hand, to the point that the one family we knew that were involved in it have given up after their son was badly hurt in a malicious "accident".
When we tongue tie it's usually with a stocking or occasionally a purpose made leather or rubber tie.
Some of the kit can look horrendous but much of it is used by riding horses too - I noticed one of the pics is of a prickle brush, not the prettiest of instruments BUT can be a useful tool in the right hands and used correctly, sadly like many of these things it's all too frequently abused and/or misunderstood.
I know it's much bigger business in France, where it's the other way round regarding more trotters than pacers and where the racing is probably more comparable to flat racing in the UK in terms of prize money, over here a big race is £10k, most weekends it's £200 - £1000 max when under rules and far less for the "unaffiliated" racing.
You say that 2/3 don't make the grade and I can't help but think that's probably not a dissimilar statistic to TBs in the UK. And AWFUL as it is, there are far worse fates for some horses than ending up in the knackers yard if they're not good enough That is a major issue across the horse world unfortunately and goes far wider than just the racing community on either side of the water.

 

[kandor]

Yes LL I know, what you've said is true.
All I'm saying is that their training is, here at least, mostly brutal. And the only reason it is brutal is because trainers are getting the horse to do something which is not natural i.e. trotting faster and faster, and this ugly gait cannot be obtained without forcing the horse with the aid of such methods. Naturally, when a horse wants to go faster, it breaks into a canter then a gallop. In Normandy if the horse does this it is beaten until it won't canter anymore because it's frightened.

I'm not going to say I don't judge this practice because I do, I think horses are too sensitive and I also dislike the way you only ever get racing on French TV just because so much money is involved and the public want to know how much €€€€ they've won as opposed to seeing a horse perform something artful and beautiful with his rider as a partner. What about, I don't know, eventing and other disciplines? On the other hand, the original post just asked if anyone has information about French trotters, so I gave the information I had on trotter training in Normandy.

So no need for an argument

 

[Crosshill Pacers]

I was present at York Harness Raceway in July when a consignment of 27 French Trotters came over as part of a new trotting series in the UK. I was able to check each horse over as they were being verified against their paperwork and can safely say they come in all shapes and sizes.

The old style FT is generally heavy boned (more so than Standardbreds) with a roman nose and large feet. However a lot of FTs have been bred to be slightly smaller and finer boned like the American trotters (which you see across other European countries).

I have a friend who does endurance on a pacer and her husband competes alongside her on a FT. Good weight carrying horses, if they've raced then they're likely to trot faster and faster and faster without cantering however as with pacers, canter can be encouraged. The gait is there, they've just been trained to work mainly in another one.

Re pulling and harsh bits and hanging off mouths (slight aside), I have been training a pacer this year who had no concept of slowing down. Not once have I been hanging out the back of the cart or yanking in the saddle - we just went back to basics and did walk walk walk before I taught him to trot (not pace) when at home. I now drive him with two fingers and he stops on voice command both driven and ridden. Patience is the best method of training, which is why all our retired racehorses will never show us, or themselves, up when we sell them on for riding.