Anyone seen the recent Lucinda Green video with Tom McEwan on FB?

Burnttoast said:
Rossdales sent my friend home with a flea in her ear and told her she needed to learn to ride. Her horse was diagnosed by AHT I think a year later. They stopped investigating after a while because they were finding so much wrong with his back end that it was just pointless to spend more money on a horse that was clearly going to be retired and was actually pts, but they suspected more was wrong than they found. He was still being schooled and doing small jumps up till that point. Incredibly stoic horse let down by any number of trainers and big name vets.
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I have the utmost respect for vets but this and *ahem* a previous thread that was deleted featuring a notorious vet with strong views on soundness in competition horses is yet another lesson in professionals are not gods and we need to be critical thinkers.
 
Many years ago my arab started giving a small buck during canter transitions. I had broken him myself and he was a horse who had never bucked. The vet came, had a look, said there was nothing wrong and to 'work him through it'. I ignored him, got another vet, and my horse ended up having a scintigraphy examination in Bristol to try and find the problem. Result: inflammation in multiple joints.
 
Tiddlypom said:
The late maxocob stated p1ssing off in canter.

Vet opined that it was behavioural and to ‘work him through it’ but this was new behaviour and I took him in for a lameness work up anyway.

PSD both hinds.
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I was told by multiple professionals that Polly was ‘naughty’ and needed riding through it.
I insisted on a scan and she had PSD. Mild but chronic.
She didn’t exhibit anywhere near the behaviour on this video.
 
The worst thing about this is the fact that's it's an online training video. With a 'ride through it' message for a horse showing evasions and resistance.

Even if the horse is fine (which I doubt), that is so irresponsible given the huge issue with pain, ulcers, confusion etc being ignored in favour of behavioural explanations. That 2 such influential figures have put this damaging message up for people to then apply to their own horses is beyond depressing.
 
The irony is that saying there's a physical issue without even seeing the video is actually quite a safe bet. We already know a big proportion of horses are unsound or brewing an issue. Erring on that side seems to be good practice and I'm not sure why any vet would object to any person asking for a proper workup. I find it bizarre even from a basis business standpoint that so many lame horses are apparently turned away by vets.
 
I'm sick of it all to be honest. I no longer watch racing, show jumping or pretty much any horse sport these days. Friends seem surprised when I say 'No, I am not watching the Horse of the Year Show, the Grand National, etc. etc.' Sadly it is expected these days that if you have a horse as an average Joe Bloggs rider and owner then you must enjoy watching any and every discipline horse related. You must enjoy it, you must have huge respect for those competing at highest level and so on and so forth. Sadly not, I have very little respect for a huge cross section of public figures in the Equine Industry.

That poor, poor horse and all the many others that have fallen in with these sort of people, I cannot find a difference between them and those at the supposed lower end of the horse world who abuse, starve and beat horses, both are cruel and serve only to bolster man's ego. But then I always competed in pink wellies with sparkly bits on my bridle so what would I know? :rolleyes:
 
Burnttoast said:
The irony is that saying there's a physical issue without even seeing the video is actually quite a safe bet. We already know a big proportion of horses are unsound or brewing an issue. Erring on that side seems to be good practice and I'm not sure why any vet would object to any person asking for a proper workup. I find it bizarre even from a basis business standpoint that so many lame horses are apparently turned away by vets.
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The thing is, they can't talk and modern diagnostics are good, but not that good - so many issues, like HGUs, only visible on post mortem - to the point that I think it's pretty fair to say you can never concretely rule out pain.
 
FieldOrnaments said:
The thing is, they can't talk and modern diagnostics are good, but not that good - so many issues, like HGUs, only visible on post mortem - to the point that I think it's pretty fair to say you can never concretely rule out pain.
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Which is a major issue for any animal that we expect to 'do a job'. It's bad enough not being sure about pets that live their best lives with minimal training expectations. There seems to be  more pressure to ignore the possibility of physical pain when horses have a job than for cats and rabbits, eg, which seems kinda backwards.
 
Mrs Jingle said:
Friends seem surprised when I say 'No, I am not watching the Horse of the Year Show, the Grand National, etc. etc.' Sadly it is expected these days that if you have a horse as an average Joe Bloggs rider and owner then you must enjoy watching any and every discipline horse related. You must enjoy it, you must have huge respect for those competing at highest level and so on and so forth. Sadly not, I have very little respect for a huge cross section of public figures in the Equine Industry.
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I guess with almost every other sport you look at the top athletes and you’re inspired by them.
It’s so sad that in equestrian sports so many of us can’t say the same.
 
Nicnac said:
Can't see an issue with LC clip.
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Objectively, the horse is behaving pretty much the same as Tom’s horse- landing disunited/ both hinds down together.
That big kick back and the grunting after the fence bug me.
But perhaps the narrative of her saying it’s because he’s excited probably makes people view it differently
 
TheMule said:
Objectively, the horse is behaving pretty much the same as Tom’s horse- landing disunited/ both hinds down together.
That big kick back and the grunting after the fence bug me.
But perhaps the narrative of her saying it’s because he’s excited probably makes people view it differently
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Ok. Didnt see that but may do so if I put my glasses on!
Just rewatched. Yes he's disunited but is dicking about rather than looking massively uncomfortable on both approach and afterwards as Tom's did.
 
LC's horse looks to be showing a front end pain reaction to me in that video - neck would be my first focus, but could be anywhere associated.

A horse yanking their head up and back violently on landing is not a sign of excitement or 'being pleased with himself'. The horse is throwing part of his body past the normal range of motion a calm, comfortable horse would move within, and that should be an immediate red flag.
 
I still don't think lc horse looks happy. Or excited. Rather it seems both mentally unsettled and physically tight and tense. And has a hunters bump and the flash is rather tight. If it was mine I'd want a vet out then if nothing found a bodyworker and go back several stages in fitness & technicality of the questions being asked if the horse.

I know nothing, fwiw - just those are my superficial observations as an absolute amateur who only wants her horse happy
 
That doesn't look comfortable at all. I'm beginning to think these riders are high on their own supply. Their success with tough/sound/tolerant horses makes them think of horses as training issues that they are uniquely placed to be able to deal with. Physical issues are clearly not high on the list because that's not something they can demonstrate their prowess at fixing. Assuming it's excitement allows them to continue the training process without pausing to consider what else it might be, because they have the ability to 'shape the expression' - that means 'make the horse compliant'. Horses that turn out to be unsound will quietly vanish without these training videos ever being revisited = no growth as horse people (let's face it, why would a Team GB rider need to think about growth?).
 
I see Tom's going to be latest promo face of the BHS - no actual thoughts either way, but interesting they're joining with a pro who's just got their Stage 5/BHSI.
 
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I did find both of the videos interesting, Tom sort of saying he didn't want to ride through it - as obviously he could have kept him straight but wanted the horse to be doing it, and more concerned about habits forming than Laura.

Laura previously has had a lot of stick over an early season video of London

I'm not sure I'd be making any conclusions on the back of a very short schooling video,, I kind of do want them to have behaviours and opinions rather than be too much like a automaton.
 
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