Anyone tried this?

[Ceriann]

Saw this on another thread and intrigued. My mare is lovely but can get excited away from home - lessons and school hire. She’s not naughty but it can take time for her to settle and work (more so as my riding/confidence has improved and I’m asking more). I might give this a try just to see. Has anyone done it and if so how (repeated over a short period or used as part of weekly routine) and has it worked?

http://peterdecosemo.weebly.com/blog/he-pulls-like-a-bloody-train1

 

[Red-1]

Yes, as part of training Police Horses. They would learn to stand and be groomed, stand tacked up, stand before mounting, stand after mounting...

When we started nuisance training (flags/noise/fire) I would make it my business to be on the school 1/2 hour before the training started. At first the horse would be 18.10 hh (ha ha) and I would have ears in my nose. After some time checking my emails, sending texts "I am sitting on a horse in a school and I can feel his heart pumping" etc then by the time I had done that, checked facebook etc etc, when I next looked up the horse would be nose down and resting a leg, ready for work.

It was very important that they learn to rest on a loose rein even in the midst of a crowd. Find peace where you can. Be able to breathe. Horse also had to know that when I am busy writing a ticket he has to stand and mind his own business too. Also the same if I am eating my packed lunch!

 

[ShowJumperL95]

Interesting,

Would this work on a horse who refuses fences? So if he refused the fence we stand at the base of the fence for a period of time until he got bored then come back around rather than turning around straight away? Or could this making the stopping worse?

He is not scared of the fence just likes to be a brat and I don't like having to smack him as it winds him up so this could be a different approach

 

[Red-1]

Interesting,

Would this work on a horse who refuses fences? So if he refused the fence we stand at the base of the fence for a period of time until he got bored then come back around rather than turning around straight away? Or could this making the stopping worse?

He is not scared of the fence just likes to be a brat and I don't like having to smack him as it winds him up so this could be a different approach

I don't see it working in that way. I would imagine he would enjoy stopping so he could have a relaxing break!

 

[Birker2020]

Interesting,

Would this work on a horse who refuses fences? So if he refused the fence we stand at the base of the fence for a period of time until he got bored then come back around rather than turning around straight away? Or could this making the stopping worse?

He is not scared of the fence just likes to be a brat and I don't like having to smack him as it winds him up so this could be a different approach

If a horse continually refuses fences and is not scared, or feeling like it is being over faced then I would be questioning why he is refusing it. Horses aren't generally 'brats' and there is normally a reason behind such behavior. I think a quicker and more reliable solution would be to get the vet out to do some tests to check the horse isn't in pain with his back or hocks for example.

OP if a horse has nothing to pull against, i.e. the riders hands then there is no reason for it to tank off. So by dropping the reins he has no reason to run against the hand. So it seems that it could work in this situation, but its not something I have ever tried.

 

[ShowJumperL95]

If a horse continually refuses fences and is not scared, or feeling like it is being over faced then I would be questioning why he is refusing it. Horses aren't generally 'brats' and there is normally a reason behind such behavior. I think a quicker and more reliable solution would be to get the vet out to do some tests to check the horse isn't in pain with his back or hocks for example.

OP if a horse has nothing to pull against, i.e. the riders hands then there is no reason for it to tank off. So by dropping the reins he has no reason to run against the hand. So it seems that it could work in this situation, but its not something I have ever tried.

He is not in pain his teeth and saddle get checked regularly and has monthly Physio without fail and recently passed a 5 stage vetting. He is still very green to jumping but RED i can see how he may see it as a relaxing break but he has the attention span of a nat so thought it might work but I see what you mean.

 

[Ceriann]

Yes, as part of training Police Horses. They would learn to stand and be groomed, stand tacked up, stand before mounting, stand after mounting...

When we started nuisance training (flags/noise/fire) I would make it my business to be on the school 1/2 hour before the training started. At first the horse would be 18.10 hh (ha ha) and I would have ears in my nose. After some time checking my emails, sending texts "I am sitting on a horse in a school and I can feel his heart pumping" etc then by the time I had done that, checked facebook etc etc, when I next looked up the horse would be nose down and resting a leg, ready for work.

It was very important that they learn to rest on a loose rein even in the midst of a crowd. Find peace where you can. Be able to breathe. Horse also had to know that when I am busy writing a ticket he has to stand and mind his own business too. Also the same if I am eating my packed lunch!

Thank you. Had mine over a year and standing so much better - especially to tack etc. She definitely wasn’t taught this. She’s relaxed at home for all of this but away mounting and post mounting is a work in progress (as is standing generally at lessons (unless it’s a halt)! I want to compete her but this is the one niggle. I’m definitely trying this and I’m sure my instructor will let me use her school to do this there too.

 

[Queenbee]

I can't comment on this approach but I can say the best tip I ever had with regards to refusals and run outs is this...

I was told that a horse that stops straight on is ok, but it is not ever acceptable for a horse to run out to left or right. Hence when a horse refuses the last thing you want to do is circle as this potentially gives the green light to run out. What I mean is the horse knows that if he stops he will be turned away from the jump. The tip I was given was rein back. When the horse refuses you need to make damned sure he remains square on, if his body begins to turn square him up to the jump and rein back with him constantly facing the jump, then go again... the horse must always be locked on/looking at a jump. If the horse is green then wariness of jumping is to be expected - its not a horse misbehaving per say, its most likely wariness, always keep the focus on the jump - perhaps break the jumps down and build the horse up, with that its confidence will build up too.

When I started with the beast we would go from a pole on the ground to a diagonal (1 pole of the cross pole) to a cross pole, to a cross with a straight bar, then add fillers as wings, then over 3 stages gradually bring them into the centre... this happened lesson after lesson, slowly reducing the steps until we could put a straight and fillers up from the get go... beast became an established and confident jumper (or so I thought) but when the height he was jumping and the complexity changed we would encounter these moments of nerves, under confidence and over caution... no refusal was ever allowed but no smack was ever needed, just centre, rein back and ask again... if the horse learns he can not evade this jump he will go over it... in the meantime, we used the previous strategy but on a grander scale to build confidence over the complex and bigger jumps we were asking him to face. Worked very well because not only was the beast set up to succeed but he remained calm and felt no pressure throughout.

If a horse is green, sometimes we as riders need to take a step back and reassess our approach. We may think the horse is confident and we may know that the horse can easily jump it but for the horse its not always that clear.

 

[Cowpony]

My mare has gone through a phase of swinging her bum away from the mounting block, which we've got past by me giving a treat from the saddle once I'm on board. A couple of weeks ago she tried it on again, and she gets quite stressed if you do the whole backing-up thing. Just as I had her lined up and was standing on the block somebody came over for a chat, so I stood on the block to talk to them and ignored my horse. After the conversation was finished (about 5 minutes) I turned back to find she hadn't budged and was standing calmly, getting a bit bored. I got on with no issue at all. So it can definitely work!

 

[ShowJumperL95]

I can't comment on this approach but I can say the best tip I ever had with regards to refusals and run outs is this...

I was told that a horse that stops straight on is ok, but it is not ever acceptable for a horse to run out to left or right. Hence when a horse refuses the last thing you want to do is circle as this potentially gives the green light to run out. What I mean is the horse knows that if he stops he will be turned away from the jump. The tip I was given was rein back. When the horse refuses you need to make damned sure he remains square on, if his body begins to turn square him up to the jump and rein back with him constantly facing the jump, then go again... the horse must always be locked on/looking at a jump. If the horse is green then wariness of jumping is to be expected - its not a horse misbehaving per say, its most likely wariness, always keep the focus on the jump - perhaps break the jumps down and build the horse up, with that its confidence will build up too.

When I started with the beast we would go from a pole on the ground to a diagonal (1 pole of the cross pole) to a cross pole, to a cross with a straight bar, then add fillers as wings, then over 3 stages gradually bring them into the centre... this happened lesson after lesson, slowly reducing the steps until we could put a straight and fillers up from the get go... beast became an established and confident jumper (or so I thought) but when the height he was jumping and the complexity changed we would encounter these moments of nerves, under confidence and over caution... no refusal was ever allowed but no smack was ever needed, just centre, rein back and ask again... if the horse learns he can not evade this jump he will go over it... in the meantime, we used the previous strategy but on a grander scale to build confidence over the complex and bigger jumps we were asking him to face. Worked very well because not only was the beast set up to succeed but he remained calm and felt no pressure throughout.

If a horse is green, sometimes we as riders need to take a step back and reassess our approach. We may think the horse is confident and we may know that the horse can easily jump it but for the horse its not always that clear.

Wow thank you very much, will definitely try this at home, it does make complete sense reining them back so they are still looking at the fence then they will know the only way forward is over that fence. Thank you little bit of a light bulb moment

 

[RoberTST90]

I didn't have any idea that it can be done like that.

 

[Landcruiser]

That rein back is exactly what I do with good success when doing TREC. We get penalised for circling in front of obstacle anyway. My horse is western trained so it's pretty easy to shoot back a distance and go again after a little sneaky sniff at the scary jump, and generally we pop over and off we go.

 

[Queenbee]

Wow thank you very much, will definitely try this at home, it does make complete sense reining them back so they are still looking at the fence then they will know the only way forward is over that fence. Thank you little bit of a light bulb moment

No problem, hopefully it will help you. Another little gem (tip from the same chap) that may be of use is never take a horse head on to look at a jump - for years I did this, it never occurred to me to do any different, I used to walk the horse calmly up to the jump to let him have a nose and familiarise himself with it. Problem is that once you have walked up to that jump to let them take a peek and desensitise, you then have to turn them away from the jump - again - the horse should never ever be put in a position where he is facing a jump and turned away and this is seen as acceptable. So, I was taught a new way, lets say you are in the arena at the yard with your instructor or at a competition and there is a jump that you think is a bit of an ask for your horse - perhaps its a bit bigger or wider than he would normally do, or the filler is new, whereas your old technique would be to take him over, probably on a long rein, have him stand, sniff, relax see there are no crocodiles, give him a coo and a pat then take up the reins and turn him away. Change your tack to this - just start walking around aimlessly, circles, serpentine, fig eights (this works particularly well with the flighty hot horses as you can creep bit by bit closer without raising their blood to boiling point) within your aimless circling repertoire - walk past the jump - parallel to it, get as close as possible, I would walk past with a couple of feet to spare, they will still see it, it will still desensitise them if needs be, but it will never put the horse in a situation where they are facing the jump and are turned away - they can complete the entire presentation, desensitisation and exit task without ever facing the jump.

If you happen to be anywhere in the south west I would be happy to pass on the instructors contact details, he is honestly a god, he is an excellent rider and inspirational rider in his own right and the kind of instructor you dream about, He methods include tactics you never even considered and the second he mentions them they just make so much damned sense and yield such great results.

 

[buzyizzy]

Ours have learnt from an early age that they stand to be groomed, tacked up, stay put while mum goes to fetch forgotten stick or phone or whatever, stand to be mounted however long I faff about and stand waiting to be told to move off. They also have the ability to stand and chill out if I meet a friend who is on foot and we have a natter. We've been complimented several times by people saying, you are so lucky, mine would never do that. Some yards of course won't let me leave him loose whilst I go back for forgotten item, which is a pain.

 

[cundlegreen]

I can't comment on this approach but I can say the best tip I ever had with regards to refusals and run outs is this...

I was told that a horse that stops straight on is ok, but it is not ever acceptable for a horse to run out to left or right. Hence when a horse refuses the last thing you want to do is circle as this potentially gives the green light to run out. What I mean is the horse knows that if he stops he will be turned away from the jump. The tip I was given was rein back. When the horse refuses you need to make damned sure he remains square on, if his body begins to turn square him up to the jump and rein back with him constantly facing the jump, then go again... the horse must always be locked on/looking at a jump. If the horse is green then wariness of jumping is to be expected - its not a horse misbehaving per say, its most likely wariness, always keep the focus on the jump - perhaps break the jumps down and build the horse up, with that its confidence will build up too.

When I started with the beast we would go from a pole on the ground to a diagonal (1 pole of the cross pole) to a cross pole, to a cross with a straight bar, then add fillers as wings, then over 3 stages gradually bring them into the centre... this happened lesson after lesson, slowly reducing the steps until we could put a straight and fillers up from the get go... beast became an established and confident jumper (or so I thought) but when the height he was jumping and the complexity changed we would encounter these moments of nerves, under confidence and over caution... no refusal was ever allowed but no smack was ever needed, just centre, rein back and ask again... if the horse learns he can not evade this jump he will go over it... in the meantime, we used the previous strategy but on a grander scale to build confidence over the complex and bigger jumps we were asking him to face. Worked very well because not only was the beast set up to succeed but he remained calm and felt no pressure throughout.

If a horse is green, sometimes we as riders need to take a step back and reassess our approach. We may think the horse is confident and we may know that the horse can easily jump it but for the horse its not always that clear.

Exactly what Lucinda Green says at her clinics.