Anyone's horse WORSE on Magnesium?

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Grey Haven

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Don't wish to open too large a can of worms here, but Echo is on Cool Calm and Collected at the moment (mag free) as he gets 6g of Mag Ox per day in his balancer.

Had a chat this morning about whether some horses might be sensitive to Mag. He's not mag deficient as I've had him tested and also our forage is ok in Mag, so I'm wondering if he's getting too much - making him stressy and spooky.

I've had him on up to 10g per day (barefoot diet and all that) and any mag-based calmers made him MUCH worse - think of Shaggy in Scooby Doo where EVERYTHING was scary!

Going to drop the additional mag from his balancer and see if it helps at all as the increase in spookiness does seem to be around the time I upped his mag levels.

Any experiences with horses being loco on too much mag??

Thanks
 
I would be interested to hear the outcome of this. Mine is on forage plus balancer which obviously has magnesium in it so I wonder if that could be making her more spooky.
 
Yes - OH's cob reacts very badly to too much magnesium in his diet.
Some years ago we took him to a local show and as it was the first of the season we gave him a magnesium-based calmer paste. He went absolutely hyper - not just spooky but really bad-tempered too and couldn't relax at all.
We didn't know what had caused it but thought the magnesium calmer was a possibility. When we started to use a chop with added magnesium, his behaviour worsened considerably. Apparently some horses are sensitive to mag and don't cope well with large quantities.
He has always been barefoot. The extra mag didn't have any impact on his feet at all so now he has Winningedge mag free and is doing just fine.
 
It made my horse's droppings very loose, but that was on the max dose only.
Apparently it does have a laxative effect in some horses.
From a temperament POV, I don't think it made any difference: spookier or calmer.
 
Grey Haven said:
Don't wish to open too large a can of worms here, but Echo is on Cool Calm and Collected at the moment (mag free) as he gets 6g of Mag Ox per day in his balancer.

Had a chat this morning about whether some horses might be sensitive to Mag. He's not mag deficient as I've had him tested and also our forage is ok in Mag, so I'm wondering if he's getting too much - making him stressy and spooky.

I've had him on up to 10g per day (barefoot diet and all that) and any mag-based calmers made him MUCH worse - think of Shaggy in Scooby Doo where EVERYTHING was scary!

Going to drop the additional mag from his balancer and see if it helps at all as the increase in spookiness does seem to be around the time I upped his mag levels.

Any experiences with horses being loco on too much mag??

Thanks
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I was recomended magnesium instead of magic for my boy it was totally useless so went back on magic.
 
Yes it's becoming well known now which is why there is quite a bit of controversy about MagCalm, Stressless and other Mg based products being so freely available on the tackshop shelf.

I will let you do your own research on absorption of vitamins and minerals in horses and it's effects. It's a real minefield.

I had a horse that needed more Cu than Mg, but now have a horse that seems ok on nothing whatsoever. I used to really rate Mg but not so much now, or at least I will use with caution.
 
He's on the Equifest Cool Calm and Collected at the moment, loading period, but it's not really kicking in like it should, hence why Malcolm and I were discussing if he was getting too much!
 
Grey Haven said:
He's on the Equifest Cool Calm and Collected at the moment, loading period, but it's not really kicking in like it should, hence why Malcolm and I were discussing if he was getting too much!
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If you're seeing symptoms after feeding, I would say that your boy already has adequate Mg and probably lacking in something else. Leave off.

From what I have gathered (laminitis has been a hard learning curve) and from what I understand, Mag and Calcium need each other equally so a spike in one will inhibit the other. Both are needed for normal metabolism. Manganese inhibits Magnesium so if you're low in that then Mg will be high still.

It's a fine ol' balance all this mineral balancing malarkey it really is and gives me headaches still I tell you. In your case, I wonder if things are fine just the way they are so the extra is tipping the balance.

The only to know for SURE is to test everything you feed AND also what is in the blood (if you can find a vet bothered enough to do a full test). It's the only absolute proof in this day and age.

It's expensive so many people learn to 'read' just like you are by the reactions. Some also use skin, eyes, hooves and mucus in the mouth to tell... sounds old wives tales-y but the former will cost you well over £150 to do and worth it of course but since there are easy indications, they are worth looking out for.
 
tallyho! said:
If you're seeing symptoms after feeding, I would say that your boy already has adequate Mg and probably lacking in something else. Leave off.

From what I have gathered (laminitis has been a hard learning curve) and from what I understand, Mag and Calcium need each other equally so a spike in one will inhibit the other. Both are needed for normal metabolism. Manganese inhibits Magnesium so if you're low in that then Mg will be high still.

It's a fine ol' balance all this mineral balancing malarkey it really is and gives me headaches still I tell you. In your case, I wonder if things are fine just the way they are so the extra is tipping the balance.

The only to know for SURE is to test everything you feed AND also what is in the blood (if you can find a vet bothered enough to do a full test). It's the only absolute proof in this day and age.

It's expensive so many people learn to 'read' just like you are by the reactions. Some also use skin, eyes, hooves and mucus in the mouth to tell... sounds old wives tales-y but the former will cost you well over £150 to do and worth it of course but since there are easy indications, they are worth looking out for.
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You can test a urine sample. Very reasonable to do. My herbalist/homeopathic supplier does a test for me if I'm not happy about any of my horses. Its very interesting to see what comes up. I then get a supplement made to correct the deficiency, and so far, this method has worked well.
 
My mare went completely the other way! After 3 weeks of Mag, she was so lethargic that even the neighbours commented as we set off on our hacks. I stopped the Mag and she soon perked up and was back to normal. I wasn't giving it to her as a calmer but for her general well-being.
 
I read a bit about this (albeit from a biased source) and what little research I can find implies that too much magnesium is just as bad as too little. Having too much magnesium means it "competes" with other substances (I believe mainly calcium) that are needed for proper nerve function. This then means you have the same problem you started with... So, yeah, magnesium can make horses worse.

Having said that, the research in this area is poor. Owners are far too easily influenced by what they think they see/what they believe so it's not like you can just ask a bunch of people and get an answer (true of forums too but I was thinking more of self-reporting in surveys). And then you need to know where the horse started out to make a comparison and follow it over time so really you need a controlled trial... But on top of that there are so many competing interests with all these companies selling calmers.

What I think it's safe to say is that too much of something is likely going to be a bad thing. If your horse is not deficient in something, don't give it more.
 
cundlegreen said:
You can test a urine sample. Very reasonable to do. My herbalist/homeopathic supplier does a test for me if I'm not happy about any of my horses. Its very interesting to see what comes up. I then get a supplement made to correct the deficiency, and so far, this method has worked well.
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Yes you could do that and if they have reference levels for Mg then it's useful and also you can detect other things that may be going on.

However, I think in practice serum level is still the gold standard for mineral testing and you can check to see if theres any inflammatory markers and assess liver health at the same time. Whereas if you saw signs in a urinalysis, you still have to do a blood test in addition to the urine sample.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
My mare went completely the other way! After 3 weeks of Mag, she was so lethargic that even the neighbours commented as we set off on our hacks. I stopped the Mag and she soon perked up and was back to normal. I wasn't giving it to her as a calmer but for her general well-being.
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Thats the desired effect for some! :D
 
I feed mine magnesium from forage plus. Unlike the other brands on the high street its in a much purer form and he is so much more relaxed. He's barefoot too and his already good feet are looking superb
 
gingerthing said:
I feed mine magnesium from forage plus. Unlike the other brands on the high street its in a much purer form and he is so much more relaxed. He's barefoot too and his already good feet are looking superb
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Purity could have something to do wit it too so definitely worth looking into bioavailablity and intolerance to certain isotopes.

There is a lot to mineral balancing, far too much to go in to here but if interested enough it's worth delving deeper as you have to consider many factors.

Some horses just don't need Mg no matter how pure due to sufficiency or underlying condition, it may be that it's another mineral altogether that needs trying e.g. copper.

Some are lucky enough never to need a thing apart from dr green!
 
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