AP McCoy to ride Denman in Gold Cup

As a huge Denman fan, I have to say I am not over the moon about AP replacing Sam...

Sam knows the horse inside out, and took him to second place last year, after surgery and a shortened training schedule, and imho, that is in no small part due to Sams knowledge of, and 'feel' for the horse.

I will reserve judgement until Saturday I suppose....
 
Caledonia i didn't say you were AP bashing, just that perhaps we should wait until Saturday.
i don't really see where i have put words into your mouth either but never mind.

some people on this thread have been AP bashing, but not you.

and yes, we must watch very different AP rides, or perhaps we just see them in a different light?
 
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i have seen him plenty of times allow the horse to pop a fence in the home straight; you seem to be determined to make out he forces all horses to stand off fences when they are tired?


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That's where you put words into my mouth.

However, it may turn out to be the best jockey choice ever, who knows? I hope for Denman's sake he doesn't realise my worries, but, we won't see those materialise (if they do) until the GC.
 
You've brought this thing about him pushing for long strides a few times before. You've discussed it in the past but i can't remember which ride it was.. Anyway it was another case of you seeing him pushing for a long one yet no one else did! Neither did he, i recall...!
 
Jackdaws, this forum would be a messy place if threads and old comments were brought up time and time again...... please, read what I've written, not what you want to see.
And if you don't think AP over-asks sometimes, I take it you missed the Petit Robin ride??
 
That AP is a great jockey cannot be in dispute. In my opinion, and it is only my opinion, he may not be the right jockey for Denman.

This weekend will hopefully go without a hitch for the partnership and they will learn a lot about each other. I hope that when the chips are down towards the end of a championship race AP retains his cool and doesn't overpush.
I personally don't like the idea that the horse is better on the floor trying to win, than staying on his feet and coming a galant second.
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Surely if this happens too often, the horse will loose the will to even try and race!! Just my opinion though - and I know I couldn't do the job!!!
 
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.... I think he might bully him too much. Denman's strength is his ability to dominate and jump in a relentless gallop at the end of the race, but on his own terms when he's jumping within himself....
.......he will want to win the GC, and I think forcing The Tank might prove his undoing.........
......I am not saying AP only bullies and scrubs, but when he really wants to win he expects the horses to answer some serious calls....
......he does push harder than any other jockey to get that win.......
.........He was only put under serious pressure between the fences, not at them. My worry is that AP would push for the long one in those circumstances, and it could rattle the horse's rhythm.....

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some of the bits which make it look like you are saying AP always pushes and it makes it sound like he always asks for long strides and never pops fences on the run in like Ruby does.

using words like 'bullying', 'forcing' and 'rattling the horse's rhythm' make it sound like he rides races with no regard for the horse or the way the horse likes to run.
 
Ah, so you now are saying I am AP bashing?

Make your mind up. I'm perfectly clear on AP being a brilliant jockey, whose chink is to ask too much of 'some' horses 'sometimes', and that I think Denman may be one that those methods, if employed, would not suit. I have also said, I might be wrong.

Why oh why are you making such an issue of this?
 
not saying you are AP bashing am i?

if AP does not always look for long strides, not always bully, not always push tired horses- why cannot he not ride Denman well?

what i am trying to say is while i have seen AP pushing horses that need pushing, i have also seen him countless times sitting motionless, letting the horse pop fences depending on what suits the horse.
 
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That AP is a great jockey cannot be in dispute. In my opinion, and it is only my opinion, he may not be the right jockey for Denman.

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That is what I was trying to say, but you put it so much better. I think that was what Caledonia has been trying to say too.
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I also, would rather see Denman return safe and well, no matter what position he finishes in.

As horsey people, we all know that there are partnerships that work, and there are ones that don't.
Sam Thomas and Denman work, so I don't understand why the boat has been rocked, especially so late on.....

AP is arguably the best NH jockey of our life time. But I am still on the fence as to whether he will be the right jockey for Denman.

It could go horribly wrong - remember Gloria Victis and the fallout from that. Or it could go fantastically right, like so many of his rides have.

I suppose Saturday will give us all a better idea, and we can argue about it after that.
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Sam Thomas and Denman work, so I don't understand why the boat has been rocked, especially so late on.....

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Exactly. Why fix what's not broke
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It's just the way things work in racing - jockeys get jocked off in favour of the better jockeys. It's the way it's always been and i really don't understand the fuss tbh.
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It's not unusual to be jocked off a horse half an hour before the race, in favour of someone like AP or Richard Johnson. They're freelance, just because Sam Thomas has ridden Denman before doesn't mean he has rights to ride him again. It's up to the owners of the horse, and naturally they want the best jockey available on the day.
 
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It's the way it's always been and i really don't understand the fuss tbh.
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Because it's Denman, who is a legend, and a Gold Cup is at stake!
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At least if he loses, I can blame it on the jockey....
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Nooo don't do that
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Honestly, i really wouldn't worry about the change in jockey. If he's going to win he's going to win regardless. From what i've heard, Denman doesn't pay much attention to the bloke on top whoever he is!!
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Totally agree with Dubs, its different with a special horse like Denman, and given his history, I would hate to see such a genuine horse pushed beyond his limits. It would be heartbreaking to see him suffer the same fate as Gloria Victis. I was going to mention him earlier, but wireless connection is playing up
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If he's going to win he's going to win regardless. From what i've heard, Denman doesn't pay much attention to the bloke on top whoever he is!!
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If thats the case, then why not stick with Sam?
 
Because, as i said before, you're going to pick the best jockey available. I was saying that it doesn't matter who the jockey is 'lightly' if you know what i mean, not literally...
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Once again, HHO Humour Failure strikes...!
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Nooo don't do that
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I SO will!
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Honestly, i really wouldn't worry about the change in jockey. If he's going to win he's going to win regardless.

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That's really interesting. I take it from your name, that you have more insider info than the general public like me, so I will look forward to watching the race on Saturday.
I have no problem with having my fears proved wrong, in fact, I hope they are!
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From what i've heard, Denman doesn't pay much attention to the bloke on top whoever he is!!
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I know the feeling...
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What i mean is that... whilst obviously jockeys ARE important and they CAN make or break a race, Denman is such an impressive jumper and stayer that really this race will be of his making. He's got a hell of a horse to beat in Kauto Star - whom, in my opinion, the choice of jockey is far more important due to his, erm, 'sporadic' jumping style
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Ruby has learnt to sit to his stumbles and this could come in so useful. Denman is actually a lazy horse, yet at the same time when he gets going takes a massive hold. So AP, i think, could suit him as he'll drive him through his lazy patches and also let him jump and run once he's running. AP cares immensely about all the horses he rides. Believe me, i've seen him crying when one he's ridden has died. Actually, i've seen plenty of jockeys crying after fatal rides... NH jockeys are notorious for giving off a very hard exterior but i promise there's a lot of heart and compassion for the horses underneath that
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Yep, I agree 100% that AP truely cares about the horses he rides.

I read his biography, and was moved to tears by his obvious sorrow at the loss of Gloria Victis and Valiramix. He really struggled, and even questioned whether he should leave the sport.

I still have the book, if anybody wants to read it.
 
There is not much competition in the race - nine declared and two probably won't run - so I'm sure AP will have a nice ride round.
 
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There is not much competition in the race - nine declared and two probably won't run - so I'm sure AP will have a nice ride round.

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Only nine??
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Surely there will be more added..... unless connections aren't bothering because they think it might be a two horse race....
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Is that info on the racing post site?
 
Don't really know as much as you guys about racing but - OMG, can't wait!!!!
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I am more of a Denman fan, not sure why but Kauto was sooo impressive in the KG. I just want them to come 1st and 2nd!
 
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