Apology loose stallion

I suppose you're far, far away from Manchester city centre?
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Otherwise i'd have jumped at the chance! I'd ignore Brandysnap if i were you, very unfairly critical IMO.
 
Hi all,

I feel I have to explain myself a little.

The fact is that: We had a loose entire at an affiliated BE HT, which could have caused serious injury/death.

This should never have happened, + if you read my comments a little more, it was a criticism of BE's dealing with entires competing (together with a comment on a BSJA stable tragedy, resulting from an entire getting loose), rather than a criticism of the owner of the entire, who gave an apology.

And while i remain critical of the entire's owner, subsequent comments from forum friends appear to suggest misunderstanding of my comments.

We ALL know that we are dealing with horses. But i am asking for stricter regulations on competing entires.

I'm also concerned that the lady riding the horse (owner? rider? not sure) is advertising for a junior post. If she advertises on this forum, please could she include details of payment? (Ie, minimum wage, hours worked, accommodation, etc, etc...)

Well, i work hard for what i earn, spent lots of unpaid years learning it, so it's up to you if you listen to me.

I only hope that enough of you have listened, + that you all remain safe, as i've done, touch wood, in your equine careers. It's a dangerous profession, but i wouldn't have done it different. Just be careful who you work for - i've made a lot of mistakes.

I think we need to think of Vicky, her Mum + her mare right now, to be honest. Stallion + owner are unscathed. BS x
 
Hi JustHelen,

I'd like to see minimum BHSII level rider, minimum BE Intermediate (which excludes me, obviously!)

Just want to avoid what happened to Vicky, her mare + her Mum ever happening again.

I, too, want nothing confrontational (we all get enough hassle in life anyway), just want to do my bit to help stop entires causing chaos, as they so easily do, + have done, through no fault of their own, but rather look at handlers, + that's the issue that i believe BE/BSJA/BD need to address as a matter of urgency, before we have a fatality.

That's my view, anyway, friends, and i wish you all well. I appear to have caused offence, for which i wholeheartedly apologise, but my remaining comment has to be that having an entire running amock at a horse trials + trying to mount a mare, is an occasion which we have to prevent in future, and i hope that we all agree on this. BS x
 
We also have yobs running riot in town centres when they come out of the pubs, Then the boy racers & idiot drunk drivers that cause mayhem on our rds often leaving an entire family wiped out. Many horses get out of fields or throw their rider & finish up knocking a child or adult to the ground, even worse they go through the windscreen of a car maiming the driver & passengers. Some horses spook whilst being ridden on the rds with riders who have no real control. Again causing accidents to people who are simply going about there daily business.
The point I am making is simple. This is not a perfect world, it is the real world & without a shadow of a doubt there always will be accidents. It's called life!
Whilst I am delighted that the 3rd parties suffered no real injuries I also believe that any one involved with horses & goes out competing should know & understand the risks involved to both themselves & others. If you want to wrap up in cotton wool you are involved in the wrong sport. The person concerned has apologised profusely. What is she supposed to do, take 10 lashes, slit her wrists?
We have owned & managed up to 7 stallions at any one time. so far without incident but who knows what is round the corner. No, we do not have any of the qualifications you suggest we should have to be competent & in all truth I know of very few BHSII's that have come through the BHS stages ever having any dealings with a single stallion. I have read most of your posts regarding the incident & think it's time you back off & learn to live with horses in the real world. Alternatively there are of course other safer sports. Remember there but for the grace of god go you or I . It could have been your friends pony that had a freak & caused injury to someone. That is a possibilty next week or maybe next month
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Hi Freshman,

You've misunderstood my meaning, friend. And am i glad i don't live where you do, with all those boy racers + horses getting out of their fields or riders falling off all the time...

I was asked a question about the level about which i felt folk were adequately knowledgeable about dealing with an entire, when competing him in public. I answered the question. (With the only levels of knowledge i know. Do we have any other methods of judgement? I only wish we had)

I am the last person in the world to commit to the 'cotton wool brigade'. I'd love to add a few four letter words, but dear moderator would just delete rest of post! So may i add to your concerns about the 'cotton wool brigade', which, believe me, is totally + utterly against what i do.

But i think we agree, that novices should never be left in charge of an entire, + that this view is not one of the H+S bunch, but rather one stemming from 40 years of living with horses, + of common sense.

Bored now, going to bed, night! BS x
 
I am looking at this from a different prospective as I show M&Ms. Stallions are regularly ridden in the ring with each other and with mares and geldings. All riders of small breed stallions have to be 12 and over and for large breeds 14 and over. We have very very few problems and most of the stallions are quite happy working in mixed groups. Our own ID stallion regularly hunted and was frequently ridden into when people couldn't stop and he didn't worry.
 
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You've misunderstood my meaning, friend. And am i glad i don't live where you do, with all those boy racers + horses getting out of their fields or riders falling off all the time...

I was not describing my locality, more of a National problem!
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I was asked a question about the level about which i felt folk were adequately knowledgeable about dealing with an entire, when competing him in public. I answered the question. (With the only levels of knowledge i know. Do we have any other methods of judgement? I only wish we had)

I personally think the Q was tongue in cheek, however the reply was typically sterio type ( lets quote BHS) No, novices should not be handling stallions at Public Events. SH Stud does not strike me as a novice or I doubt she would have posted an apology. If she was novice she would not have been upset or appreciated what might have happened.
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I am the last person in the world to commit to the 'cotton wool brigade'.

Then why continue to bring the matter up? more so picking up on the fact the person concerned has asked online for a rider interested in a position on her yard. Why do you feel you are qualified to interfere in her request?
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I'd love to add a few four letter words, but dear moderator would just delete rest of post!
Personally I feel that a few 4 letter words is about the only thing you have held back on regarding the OP
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So may i add to your concerns about the 'cotton wool brigade', which, believe me, is totally + utterly against what i do.
I never mentioned the cotton wool brigade. You did.
 
Brandysnap, God forbid you ever go to Spain, most male horses are entire, children ride and handle stallions, they are everywhere.

I once had a very embarrassing incident on a catch ride, I was stood in the collecting ring chatting and the horse I was on tried to mount a mare...no one had thought it necessary to inform me that the horse I was on was entire
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No harm was done other than a red face from me and a shocked face from the other rider, no harsh words were exchanged, no bollocking dished out, it was one of those things. Yes all could have dwelt on what *may* have happened, but being sensible people no one did, we just got on with our day, and I have always checked the under carriage of catch rides since then
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Incident happened, owner apologised and was distraught, end of story.
 
For the record, I neither know the stallion owner nor do I even know the stallion involved. I have nothing to do with BE, I compete in BD competitions only therefore I am not a 'forum friend' as you labelled me!

Secondly, I once again take offence with the suggestion that only certain people should be 'allowed' to own a stallion. It is precisely this attitude which makes my blood boil. A stallion is entire, yes, but so is a mare. Should all mare owners have to be of a certain standard too?

I currently have a very exciting 'blob' in utero (top dressage breeding) and should this blob be a colt, it will be taken through the KWPN grading system. If they deem it eligible, it will stand at stud. I, however, do not have any of the qualifications you have mentioned, nor do I intend to get them before that moment. Should I not be allowed to compete that stallion because I do not have these qualifications? I would be very annoyed if this was the case and I had paid so much to have it in my life!

As FRESHMAN has said, unfortunately, with horses we do have to accept the risks that come with them. The one example I can think of is a picture that was featured in the H&H a few weeks back (on the back cover) which showed a deer running right across a rider's path who was going cross country... OK, not a stallion issue, but a real threat to both the rider and their horse.

I am around stallions a lot as we have two on the yard at the moment. There has been one incident with a three year old colt which was damned scary... Could it have been avoided, probably! Did anyone hold it against the stallion, definitely not. Did anyone hold it against the owner, most certainly not, they were so apologetic and I think they replay that moment over and over in their mind!

Horses are horses, and if you start wanting this kind of 'control' over who has stallions, pray tell me what would happen with a riggy (not actually a rig but behaves as such) gelding??? The absolute worst accident I have ever seen concerned one such gelding (all tests done, 100% gelding). He viciously attacked another gelding in the field, so much so that he pushed it through a wooden 5 bar gate and then through a hedge. It is the most 'stallion like' attack I have ever seen, and it was not even a stallion! The stallions I have the honour of being around don't bat an eyelid when they travel with mares (and yes, they have covered), work in with mares and even are loose on the yard where mares are stabled (one night one decided to go for a midnight munch), so I do not think you can be so sweeping in your judgements.

The stallions I am around are treated like every other horse, and this, in my opinion, is how they should be handled. No special treatment, no 'oooo, don't do that, he is a stallion!" and they are extremely well behaved. Yes, at a show the owner is slightly more alert with regards to her own space in the collecting ring, but I would say no more so than someone with a young horse!
 
I've shown stallions, mares, geldings, gelding who think they are stallions (including one who was cut aged 7 having been used as a stallion, and one cut aged 4 having run with mares).
The worst incidents i have ever had have actualy been with mares. One where a young section D filly pulled away from me in the show ring and jumped the ring rope to go in with the section D stallions in the next ring. I will give them thier due the stallions were incredibly well behaved when this young tart of a mare was essentialy presenting herself. I've never been more mortified in my life.

My arab gelding (cut when he was 7) can be a right pain in the arse around in season mares. yet the stallion i have handled is an absolute gent and wouldnt even think of attempting anything.

I've known huge warmblood stallions being handled by children it all depends on the education of the horse and any horse no matter whether it be mare, gelding or stallion can still get loose and cause chaos, all can still have mad moments. If some of the draconian measures suggested were put in place then I'm fairly sure our native ponies would die out as would most pony breeds and many horses except for the top sports horses.

Well done to the stallion owner for appologising and taking responsibility.
 
Hi magicgirl,

Maybe that's the answer. You've talked sense.

Like, maybe we should start treating our entires as we do the rest of our horses (mares included, as they are entires also), correct schooling + handling, + mix them more often, so they learn to live with each other, in a quiet, safe way?

Our 'adult' culture separates them at the moment, so the minute a stallion gets loose at an event, he goes AWOL, whereas if magicgirl's stallion gets loose, which he probably won't, he thinks 'where's the best grass round here?' + puts his head down.

Again, just looking for a solution, before i'm shot down in flames again. BS x
 
[ QUOTE ]
We also have yobs running riot in town centres when they come out of the pubs....
If you want to wrap up in cotton wool you are involved in the wrong sport....

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry Freshman, you mentioned cotton wool first! Na na na na na!!
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Seriously, friends (+ potential friends, i hasten to add), we shouldn't be arguing in a petty way like this, but rather we should be sharing friendships, offering hands, + working for the good horsemanship + education to which i hope we all work for. That's how we learn.

May we continue to learn. I did today, + it was good. I taught a lovely girl on a lovely pony, + we got good results. I learnt from that that i'm not 'Brandysnap: to be ignored', which was extremely hurtful, from forum comments.

But rather that my knowledge + experience + kindness is very much appreciated by my local people, who know me. So i think my energies are best spent in helping them, rather than in petty arguments on an internet forum with total strangers.

Goodbye, wish you well, BS x
 
Only just spotted your replies to the above incident and one thing is very clear, you can't have handled entires in your career..
Your patronising advice especially the last part about your teaching ablities insinuated to me that by using "kindness" problems with stallions could be avoided, as did the other rubbish about a stallion grazing instead of going after an in season mare..
Yes stallion owners are "kind" to their animals, the one thing you never ever do with a stallion is start an arguement with him, it's more a case of firm handling and clear directions of what behaviour is expected of him.
Please don't try and advise on subjects you don't understand; stallions compete widely in all disciplines, usually with little fuss. As for the handlers/riders being qualifed by the BHS, don't make me laugh!
Where will all these people get their experience of stallions, not at BHS approved Riding Schools, but with people who stand stallions and compete them, and no way would I put anyone inexperienced on ours at a competition.
Being qualified to teach in a set way or ride to a standard does not enable you to be competent at handling a stallion, experience does.
Sometimes people fall off, but sometimes also horses pulling cariages get loose, racehorses ditch their jockeys and run off etc, it's part of horses being horses!
I'm not quite sure in what way you expect the authorities to regulate stallions competing, ban them altogether?
How then will they prove their worthiness?
It appears you left the forum after a strop on here, but if not you're very welcome to tell me how to treat our stallion, as you point out, we're always learning with horses.....
 
Hi Henryhorn,

I apologise if i gave the impression that i have never dealt with an entire. I recall 3 at quick recollection, ridden in a professional capacity, all of whom i remember with affection + without any sad incidents. The lads + i share a lot.

However, I would think twice about competing or hunting an entire with a novice rider, + would definitely recommend that they certainly don't!!

B x

Lots of posts missing in meantime...Edit by press, yet again!
 
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