appaloosa experts - colour Q

[Nevergrewup]

I'm going to view an appaloosa x tb x cob, which sounds like it had a full appy sire. Its 8 and currently has chestnut spots on a white background.

I know Appaloosa genetics are v.v. complex, but what are the chances of this horse going fully grey in the future? - I'd rather it didn't! What do I need to ask about this horse's breeding to get an idea please? Thanks.

 

[prettypony95]

do you have a pic of this horse? May be worth finding out who the horses sire is, then try and find out if any of his offspring's have turned grey...does the horse have quite a lot of chestnut spots?

 

[appylass]

I'm not an expert by any means but you are right,it is complex. My old boy stayed pretty much the same from when I got him until he died, he was a leopard spot (in my avatar). It will depend if he carries the varnish gene I think. Have the current owners had him long? If they've had him a while I'd ask to have a look at some photos and see if you can see signs of him changing. I think that would give you the best idea of how much he will change.

I'd guess he doesn't have the grey gene as he would probably have lost most of his spots already if so. Again, that's easy to check if you know who his parents are; no grey parent, no grey gene.

I realised you can't see very well in the avatar so here he is

 

[Nevergrewup]

Thanks guys - the horse has a very spotty face but they're less dense around his back end. I'll have to ask the seller lots of Qs.

 

[jeni]

im no expert, but here is a couple of pics of my boy.......as a baby and now x x

 

[Chavhorse]

It is not easy to judge, my WB X appy went from;

This at Aged 3

To this at 4

To This at 6

And this at 7

And this is what he looks like in Summer!

Each summer he gets whiter than the previous year and then darkens down again each autumn...but each year he does not not darken so much.

Still it keeps it interesting;-))

 

[Slightlyconfused]

our appy, we have baby pictures from prev owners, stayed the same colour, white but his mane and tail lightened up.....his mum is the same colour as him but his half brother is dark dark grey at 4, don't know what he would be like now

Our Appys dad is Ulrichs Buckaroo by Ulrichs Monach any one else have one with these lines?

 

[spotty_pony]

As others have said, it isn't easy to tell whether he will grey out - it depends whether he has the greying gene. If possible find out what colour his parents are, and any horses by the same Stallion/broodmare.

My Part bred Appy didn't show any signs of greying out when I bought him as a five year old but seven years on and he looks like a completely different horse so there really is no telling!!

My boy in 2005:

And him recently:

 

[ISH_lover]

My pb appy (half brother to spottypony's lad) has stayed the same if not just a few more white hairs. Hes a snowflake appaloosa so is dark with small white flecks all over him.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

The base-coats get lighter but they never lose their spots.

I live quite near to Ulrichs Buckaroo and have met him quite often (I know his owner) but ours has different breeding. In fact both her parents have lots of spots while she was solid coloured but now, aged 15, is developing some spots.

 

[HaffiesRock]

This is my Appy, Betty. She is 9 and gets a bit more grey each year :O)

 

[bumper]

Fascinating post!
I have a pb appy: this is him at 4yo

And at 5yo

He's now 6, and isn't showing any sign of changing colour.
What's this "varnish gene"?

 

[Chavhorse]

Bumper,

The Varnish Gene causes them to get whiter but retain dark points, normally on bony areas, I think my lad very much carries the Varnish Gene.

Info below lifted from Wiki

Characteristics
By adulthood, the Varnish Roan usually has a base coat of intermingled dark and white hairs, though more white hairs than dark, with mottled skin, color mainly on the cheeks of the face, and around the knees. The darker areas remain at bony points (on the face, usually in a distinct V on the bridge of the nose; on the cheeks, point of shoulder, elbows, knees, point of hips, hock) and it can be seasonal as well. Although classic roans are roan from birth, varnish roans are often born with spots and "roan out" as they age. A horse's appearance can change almost completely, although the original markings are usually visible.

The pattern is not completely stable. The horse is born another color (usually another leopard pattern), and the Varnish pattern gradually overtakes it by adulthood. After the horse is mature, the coat color may lighten slightly when the horse has a long winter coat, and darken slightly in the summer when the winter coat sheds out. However, unlike the gray gene, the color does not get progressively lighter every year for the life of the horse, though it may look a bit different from year to year while the horse is young.
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Varnish vs true roan
The varnish roan is not a true roan, it is actually one of the leopard complex coat patterns associated with Appaloosa, Knabstrupper, Noriker horse and related breeds. Varnish roans are not true roans and can be distinguished from true roans by the following:
Leopard complex characteristics. Varnish roans, like all horses with the Lp gene, have mottled skin, striped hooves, and white sclera.

Varnish roans change color seasonally, often becoming less spotted as they age, and often having their coats become lighter when a winter coat grows in, though they do not progressively lighten in the manner of a gray horse.

Bony areas retain their pigment longer. These areas include the bridge of the nose and cheekbones, ears, points of shoulder and stifle, as well as the legs.
Appaloosa characteristic parentage.
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Genetics
Varnish roan is thought to occur due a single, simple dominant gene on equine chromosome 1 (ECA1).[1] It also appears that specific white patterning genes produce the assorted blanket, leopard, and snowflake coat patterns.[2] Without these white patterning factors, horses with one or two copies of the dominant Lp gene are "varnish roans." Varnish roans can be considered to have many, many very small leopard spots that reflect the mottling of the underlying skin.[citation needed]

A horse may be varnish roan as well as true roan and gray, but such combinations are extremely uncommon. The breeding of grays is discouraged by the Appaloosa Horse Club and not allowed by Knabstrupper breed registry.
[edit]

 

[Nevergrewup]

Thanks for the Appaloosa genetics lesson everyone

 

[bumper]

Thanks Chavhorse!