Appleby Fair

Two wrongs certainly don't make a right, just pointing out that people who do bad things to horses come from all walks of life & do it because they are scum. A violent scumbag is a violent scumbag whether they are a traveller or their familiy has owned 100s of acres for generations. Some people are just better at hiding it or people just shrug & say "he's always been like that" & let it go because of who/how wealthy they are. Occasionally they come across a group of people who are not prepared to let it go & report it but still nothing is done. Bitter moi?
 
Having gone to a few Ahemm "Travellers fairs" over the years some can indeed be described as a respectful nomadic gathering which is still a very just part of their way of living. Others are just a p*k*y gatherings in a field, left churned up and filthy.

OOh and i wondered how long it was before the race card was dealt!! :eek:
 
galaxy said:
Unsupported? Need evidence of someone shot in the head and a big fight at Wickham Horse Fair?

Ok....

http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2013-05-20/man-shot-in-head-at-wickham-horse-fair/
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So, because someone was shot in the head at Wickham, that makes people who go to Appleby scum does it? Because someone was shot in the head in Glasgow that makes all Scotsmen gangsters does it? Because you witnessed someone mistreating a horse that justifies a scatter-gun condemnation of 50,000 people does it ? Because one of our leading race-horse trainers is doping his horses does that make the entire racing world corrupt? Because some soldiers are guilty of atrocities against women and children, that makes the whole of the armed services sadistic killers does it? Of course not. But when you allow your prejudice to make exactly that kind of unjustified leap about Gypsies, that is called racism. It is not a 'card to be played' - racism is the simple everyday habit making false assumptions about a whole group of people because of the behaviour of some of them. For example, if I made a post to say that all of the readers of Horse and Hound are racist because of a few comments on this forum, you would of course be outraged. If we had 20,000 vicars in Appleby for a conference, some of them would be paedophiles, and some of them would s**t behind the hedge if there was no toilet, that is human nature - but it does not make the Church 'awful'. And by the way, at the last forum after Appleby Fair there was a MAJORITY of townspeople in favour of the Fair. Fact. Does that make them scum too? Pejudice and hate are contemptible wherever they appear - and in this case, it seems the contempt is mutual.
 
ApplebyLover said:
So, because someone was shot in the head at Wickham, that makes people who go to Appleby scum does it? Because someone was shot in the head in Glasgow that makes all Scotsmen gangsters does it? Because you witnessed someone mistreating a horse that justifies a scatter-gun condemnation of 50,000 people does it ? Because one of our leading race-horse trainers is doping his horses does that make the entire racing world corrupt? Because some soldiers are guilty of atrocities against women and children, that makes the whole of the armed services sadistic killers does it? Of course not. But when you allow your prejudice to make exactly that kind of unjustified leap about Gypsies, that is called racism. It is not a 'card to be played' - racism is the simple everyday habit making false assumptions about a whole group of people because of the behaviour of some of them. For example, if I made a post to say that all of the readers of Horse and Hound are racist because of a few comments on this forum, you would of course be outraged. If we had 20,000 vicars in Appleby for a conference, some of them would be paedophiles, and some of them would s**t behind the hedge if there was no toilet, that is human nature - but it does not make the Church 'awful'. And by the way, at the last forum after Appleby Fair there was a MAJORITY of townspeople in favour of the Fair. Fact. Does that make them scum too? Pejudice and hate are contemptible wherever they appear - and in this case, it seems the contempt is mutual.
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But we didnt say the entire race of gypsies are evil :confused: this thread is about Appleby :confused: Your rant would apply if someone came on and said every singly gypsy abused their horse and acted like scum... but we didnt so no need for it :cool:
 
As to the fair being left 'churned up and filthy' let me enlighten you about Appleby Fair. The Market Field is a bit of private enterprise by a local farmer who has tuned one of his fields into a gigantic car boot sale, purely for profit. The Gypsies have no control over it - some of them pay their money and park there, and their money is used to clean up afterwards and to install the toilets and skips. Fair Hill, in the next field, is the traditional fair, operated by the Gypsies. Fair Hill is quieter, more law abiding, cleaner, and managed in very close and co-operative dialogue with the Local Authorities. It is picked clean after the Fair. Have you ever seen the aftermath of Glastonbury or any other big pop festival? It makes Appleby look like an easy clean up. The Gypsies finance the skips and the toilets of Fair Hill which are used by the trippers and visitors who pay nothing whatsoever. There is no admission charge to see the spectacle at Appleby, and no Gypsies take a fat profit out of it. Some years it loses money. To criticise the fair because the field is a mess afterwards is just childish.
 
I dont even want to look at how cruel humans can be sometimes. Supposed to be a law abiding society. I really wonder sometimes how they get away with it year, in year out. I hope HMRC is there to collect the spoils from the exchange of money?
 
ApplebyLover said:
You missed the point BobsGalore - by about 180 degrees.
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I completely got your point. However, this thread wasn't bashing gypsies, it was discussing Appleby Fair. Stop trying to turn this thread into something it's not.

Oh and that video is disgusting. I don't get the obsession with taking the horses into the river? Can anyone explain this? Is there a tradition behind it?
 
CobsGalore said:
I completely got your point. However, this thread wasn't bashing gypsies, it was discussing Appleby Fair. Stop trying to turn this thread into something it's not.

Oh and that video is disgusting.
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thiss ^^

one could say you have missed the purpose of this thread ;)
 
What an awful video, the point is that it is not about who or what group of people are doing this the fact is that Appleby is hosting this in a large way. It is providing an enviroment in which horses are put in increasingly uncomfortable positions. This does not mean that it doesnt happen at livery yards out of the view of the public, it means it is happening here, and therfore should not be tolerated. It is not about the who, it as about the fact it is happening as seen in that video and i am sure many others and therfore the ability to predict horses being mis treated so should be reviewed, seriously.
 
CobsGalore said:
I completely got your point. However, this thread wasn't bashing gypsies, it was discussing Appleby Fair. Stop trying to turn this thread into something it's not.
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Correct - in so far as I am trying to point out that anyone reading this thread who had no been to Apply Fair would be given a prejudiced view of it.

"We have been taken over by the absolute dregs of society." Prejudice. There are a majority of highly moral and respectable people attend Appleby Fair.

"If it had not been a member of that society I am sure they would be sent down for years!!! It is just accepted from them for some reason..." That Society - what all of it? (Racist)

"it can ONLY happen between those sorts that travel to these things" I travle to Appleby Fair regularly and have never misttreated a horse in my life, or stolen a chainsaw, or raped anyone, or murdered anyone. I know you are talking about Appleby Fair and the people who go there, but don't forget me!

"What actually happens there?
Murder,shootings, rape, human castrations, lots of human poo. Horses thrashed to death, then left to die at the side of the road. "
This is about Appleby Fair of course - these things dont happen anywhare else.


"so likely the fair has been taken over by the scum section of this part of society" The Fair has not been taken over by the nasties - the Fair is generally well ordered, closely supervised by Police, RSPCA, Health and Safely, Trading Standards, HMRC, and Market Licensing. "taken over by the scum section of this part of society" is simply wrong, and is simply prejudice. Racist at that.

"It's this new breed who both normal law abiding folk and the Police are scared of, as they show no respect to anyone." Ditto. The police are no more scared of them than they are of drunken louts on a Saturday night, terrorists, or football hooligans. Misleading scaremongering nonsense.

A few years a girl got raped, they handled the situation well, off with his balls it was! Evidence for this? No, I thought not...More or less *******s!
One year it was the fashion to carry machetes and another year guns, not sure what this years assessory (sp) is yet though. Prejudiced nonsense.

3 dead horses drowned whilst being washed in the river. Evidence please? I thought not.

I am not trying to turn this into anything - just point out that it is full of inaccuracy, prejudice and misleading nonsense, based on rumour and hearsay. I still think you missed the point.
 
ApplebyLover said:
So, because someone was shot in the head at Wickham, that makes people who go to Appleby scum does it? Because someone was shot in the head in Glasgow that makes all Scotsmen gangsters does it? Because you witnessed someone mistreating a horse that justifies a scatter-gun condemnation of 50,000 people does it ? Because one of our leading race-horse trainers is doping his horses does that make the entire racing world corrupt? Because some soldiers are guilty of atrocities against women and children, that makes the whole of the armed services sadistic killers does it? Of course not. But when you allow your prejudice to make exactly that kind of unjustified leap about Gypsies, that is called racism. It is not a 'card to be played' - racism is the simple everyday habit making false assumptions about a whole group of people because of the behaviour of some of them. For example, if I made a post to say that all of the readers of Horse and Hound are racist because of a few comments on this forum, you would of course be outraged. If we had 20,000 vicars in Appleby for a conference, some of them would be paedophiles, and some of them would s**t behind the hedge if there was no toilet, that is human nature - but it does not make the Church 'awful'. And by the way, at the last forum after Appleby Fair there was a MAJORITY of townspeople in favour of the Fair. Fact. Does that make them scum too? Pejudice and hate are contemptible wherever they appear - and in this case, it seems the contempt is mutual.
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Don't think I have used the word "scum" actually.... that was you. All I said is I dread WICKHAM every year as there it creates problems in the area and this year was worse than most because of the documented fight. You said that the problems people on this thread are reporting were hear say and I linked to the fact that the case I spoke about was definitely true.

I certainly have only been referring to some of those that travel IN to these fairs and cause such problems. Not an entire society.
 
I went about 22 years ago and it was a grand weekend out.
From what I recall, the horses appeared to be in good condition.

We went and watched them 'flashing' and that in itself was quite exciting but it was uncomfortable thinking of the hammering the horses legs were taking.

Then in the evening, they had racing (with traps) on a proper track that was the highlight of the weekend.

When did it change?
 
Interesting to watch that video. Difficult, but interesting. One thing I kept seeing was a lack of understanding of patience. Quite a few horses I saw there were pondering whether it was safe or not to go, and given a few minutes, patience and praise, may have even took a few tentative steps. Instead, it was "go in, or I'm going to hit you, very hard, with whatever I can find or my boot/fist if I cant find a stick." Which I found to be awful practice. The incident at 2:59, the foal being manhandled into the river, and the man forcing the horse into deeper water were particularly bad, and were three examples of reasons why the fair gets bad press, and in those cases, deservedly.

The RSPCA report/blog was also quite thought provoking. Out of the 1500 horses there, there was only 14 horses taken into RSPCA care, 38 warnings and 192 incidents. Whereas this is 14 horses too many, and it shouldn't get to this point, that is a smaller figure than I expected to read. Thoughts about the RSPCA aside, I think I'd trust those figures as coming from a good source.

All in all, I think that the fair is something that needs to be changed, and there are terrible goings-on every year, alongside other things such as the poor locals scared to leave their front doors for a week every year, which in a civilised country should never happen. However, I think the reason the fair is the way it is goes right back to the attitudes and culture of the travellers who frequent it, and that is a deep rooted problem and something we can't change easily. Perhaps these older, wiser members of the travelling community can go some way to improve the thinking of the newer generation who seem to be the problem, if the reports of a better atmosphere 20 or so years ago are true. I think the approach the RSPCA, volunteers, police and fire service is taking by picking up the pieces, helping the locals feel safe, caring for the mistreated animals, and trying to educate people is all we can do in the short term.

Still, not the best of humankind on show at this time of year in Appleby. :mad:
 
ApplebyLover said:
I am not sure if I have ever read a more prejudiced, snobbish, ill-informed, biased, nasty, unsupported, hate-filled garbage account of Appleby Fair and Gypsies as appears in this forum.

The words 'It must be awful' appear half a dozen times, demonstrating that those writers at last have never been there, but that does not stop them spouting their prejudice. Apart from the one or people who have written in to defend 'real gypsies' but mostly it is verging on simple racism, and says as much about the character of the writers as it does about the character of Gypsy people...
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I speak as a find, based on what I saw with my own eyes.

I went with an open mind. I actually was of the opinion that the gypsy way of life must be idyllic and was excited to see that culture. Especially after my grandpa who was a joiner told me about working on a Romany gypsy caravan, which was the most beautiful thing he'd ever seen. He said it was immaculate and they were lovely people to deal with.

What I saw at Appleby was starkly different from what I expected. If you feel this misrepresents your culture you have a lot of work to do changing perceptions. Perhaps some way towards this would be ensuring welfare standards for your horses (if I go to an endurance ride my horse is checked over by a vet before and after), avoiding dangerous riding on main roads and around pedestrians and to try and police the more dubious elements attracted by the fair.
 
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