Arab Showing, what a disgraceful display

The modern Arabian horse leaves me cold. I love the Crabbet look which can also be found in other types of arab. My gelding is Crabbet/Polish which is a lovely mix and my mare pure Crabbet. Both are great riding horses and a pleasure to look at although the modern enthusiast would call them plain! I love seeing Arabians natural and think all the shaving and make up just make them ugly. To me inhand showing should be about getting youngsters out and about for experience before they are broken to ride and can't understand why in hand show horses are worth so much more money than a lovely riding horse. The Crabbet classes are still run traditionally and are well represented but I think I read somewhere that some shows did put on an amateur class to be shown traditionally but there was very little take up.
 
Fatfish said:
I find it sickening that this beautiful, talented, breed is displayed in such a way that makes real horsemen and women turn their backs in disgust, but again the AHS appears oblivious to the damage being done to the breed's reputation and therefore its market. As long as a small circle can win and sell to each other, then everything is apparently well in the world. There is little or no thought given to developing the market for geldings which are the inevitable result of any breeding programme.

Thankfully, there ARE people who care about the original Arab and its reputation as a ridden horse sans pareil, but they literally do not make the noise that the inland crowd do, and so do not catch the public eye. But they can be found, in the ridden ring, or at any one of the many activities in which Arabs thrive - not just endurance but also hunter trials, showjumping and dressage. So if you are offended by the vulgar display of the in-hand Arab ring, turn your back on it and head for the ridden Arab classes, where you will find tradition upheld, and many, sane, capable ridden horses.
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^ this :)
 
Auntieboo said:
No not all arab breeders or fans of Arabs are so lacking in horse skills. Unfortunately a lot of newcomers to the breed are, they just copy what they see in Europe and the Middle East and sadly the AHS have no power to stop what goes in in it's own country due to belonging to the European group called ECAHO. They always lay blame at their door for what happens in the ring. Bit like us in the UK should we leave the European union or stay in it. The AHS in the UK could leave ECAHO but if it did you would see no one at it's shows, if a show is put on for sensible calm handling under the UK AHS rules no one turns up. Education could be the answer but I doubt if any handler will admit to lacking in basic horse skills. The AHS believe that a show needs such razzmatazz to bring in exhibitors, spectators and new blood...for me they need to get some balls and make some new rules that at least can over rule those of ECAHO to be used in our own country at least. There could be a fine line got between having fun day out and making the arab breed look like stupid.
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It's difficult to say if we don't do it that way no one will come, when many would consider if they are going to do it like that we don't want them here anyway ;).

It has a similar ring the endurance gb debate to it to me.

Seems a bit of a get out of jail free card rather than man up and do something about it ;).
 
We were very careful when we showed our youngster, as his older brother had had his mind blown by the in hand world. We found a couple of county shows where the handling was very traditional and no one psyched their horses. The ridden judges were judging the in hand classes, and they were definitely looking at the horses with their riding horse glasses on.

So our youngster got a lovely quiet showing experience, gained lots of confidence, and we had some nice pointers about his potential as a riding horse.

The sad thing is that these classes are dwindling and we risk losing them. Support the good guys, peeps.
 
ester said:
Pogojii, Russian who looks nice in some photos and quite strange in others!

straight through the hocks, very narrow chested and wide behind and bum high ;)

Oh and wild like an arab ;)

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That's him. :)

This is my girl. She was a bit nappy in her youth, but is a genteel lady these days apart from when it comes to alpacas - she really, really doesn't like them!

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Zobeyni Arabians said:
If you search the back rings at Arabian shows you can still find calm, well built Arabians in the Crabbet Classes. These classes are sponsored by the Crabbet Organisation which is named for the Crabbet Arabian Stud, founded in the 1870s, and the predominant ingredient in traditionally bred Old English Arabian horses.
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Just looked up the Crabbet Arabian. Now that's more like it!!
 
Dipping a toe into the conventional horse world:
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But seriously, it was a really relaxed experience for him. Nice shows are still out there, and that's coming from me as a non show person.
 
My seahorse headed gelding has a fair bit of Crabbet blood. For example (plucked from his pedigree) Magnum Psyche is 25.1% Crabbet, Camargue is 56%, Vona Sher-Renea is 47.7% and Balaton 28.1%. I haven't worked out what % my gelding has yet as I need to trawl back to work out what percentage some of his ancestors have. My grey is 66.something %, I believe you need 75% or above to show in crabbet classes. So neither of mine have enough, but that doesn't stop them from being blimmin' good horses. ;)
 
My first Arab gelding did some in hand showing as a younger horse with a brilliant handler whom I would use again if either of mine did in hand, I do go to some of the Arab shows but mainly watch the ridden classes rather than the in hand as both mine mainly do the ridden now and I enjoy watching the ridden so much more.
 
Cal is a softy, missing the brave gene for too much jumping though she can. Post suspensory she is just being Mum's hack atm which suits her nicely!
 
ester said:
Cal is a softy, missing the brave gene for too much jumping though she can. Post suspensory she is just being Mum's hack atm which suits her nicely!
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That does sound a bit familiar. :D CM loves jumping and is good at it, but she often has a crisis of confidence somewhere around a course (generally about a stride out from a fence too), so I got very good at keeping my leg on even if she appeared to be really taking me to the fence. She is a fabulous hack and that really is where her heart lies. She's terribly nosey, so I think that she likes to have a good gawp at what the neighbours are up to. ;)
 
Lol yup, cal is very capable but needs very clear instructions so her and mum were often not a good combo, she'd tend to get cocky, scare herself then have a meltdown and nothing could convince her to jump something she wasn't sure about!

Very very nosey! Thankfully our field is surrounded by houses so lots of gardens to nose at and old people to entertain. She also loves to stop hacking for a good gossip to the point that she would try and take you into the local DIY yard in case ;).

And an attention whore
surrounded by birminghamers on the beach in zummerzet ;)
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Sorry if we have derailed the thread OP!
 
I also apologise OP. :)

There is a difference between them there as CM is very wary of strangers. She only likes and trusts certain people which made having her on part livery when i first bought her a disaster, as she decided that she didn't like the YO or any of the staff. *embarrassed face*
 
I have owned and bred Arabians since about 1971. I am appalled by the current ways of showing to the extent I only watch/participate in Crabbet or ridden classes. I even wrote to the Daily Mail once about the use of electric cattle prods to make arabs "stand up" though never received a reply. The Arab Horse Society have some rules but they appear unable to strictly enforce them. I am considering not being a member next year because of this. There are many who feel the same and they just don't show any more but continue to breed properly conformed horses to sell without the need for ribbons that mean diddly squat to real Arabian enthusiasts
 
See, I love the Crabbets and their slightly less pretty cousins the Polish Arabs. To me, they are useful, fun, scarily intelligent horses that can turn their hooves to anything - only if they think it's their idea first mind. But then, I like a pony temperament and an animal that can think for itself.

I liveried on a Crabbet stud for 10 years and their horses totally changed my perception of what an Arab should be. Like many others I thought all Arabs were swivel eyed loons with spindly legs and tiny feet and a 9 stone max weight limit...until I met the Crabbets. Yes, they're flashy, could snort and prance with the best of them but they went out and did everything that asked of them including driving with aplomb and presence. One day I'll have one :)

Oh, btw I also used to show Welsh Cobs including stallions up to County level - pp are saying that Welsh showing is the same/as bad as Arab showing. It really isn't. Yes the Welshs are firey and it's not unheard of for them to be airborne but they are under control, sound and there is no outside interference. They have to show their paces, especially trot to have any chance of being in the ribbons. They have to stand for the judge and make up is strongly disapproved of! Also, if you were to swing your horse around, let alone allow it to bounce off structures in the ring, you'd be asked to leave. At bigger shows the only inhand classes are for youngsters and breeding stock - as it should be.
 
I remember watching a real nice gelding he was shown as a yearling, 2 yrold and 3yr old he won championships at regional, national and international level.
He had the most beautiful head, and well put together, and had a rather big stand.

I saw him last year 1st time being shown since a 3 yrold he was 6 now and i was horrificly shockes he had a hugely dipped back... now i know he isnt broken to ride, but it must be the big stand they make them do. I couldnt belive i was looking at the same horse from 3yrs ago he looked so strong... yeah it could be from breeding/conformation but this horse was scoring 17/19 for conformation as a baby.
 
Equestrianism across the board is full of behaviours, standards, methods and practices which some adopt and some abhor. Within all of those circles there are examples of the good, the bad and the ugly... The Arabian showing world is no different. Collectively bashing the breed isn't fair.

I won't point out the examples from other equestrian circles which I personally dislike, as I'm sure there are many people who think they are perfectly acceptable. What I will say is that I enjoy the ''modern" way of showing when it's with empathy and understanding to the horse. My own mare loves showing off and enjoys a bit of encouragement with the rustle of a bag, rattle of some stones and some clapping. And to those who think that a horse who has been 'subjected' to this at shows or at home can't go on to be a well rounded horse think again! My mare loves hacking, endurance rides, jumping, dressage and she's qualified and was placed at HOYS after being shown at C Shows across the country.

Saying all that I don't believe the 'frozen' American type pose, the shanking or circling is necessary - but I think these generally are becoming less acceptable anyway. Well known, highly admired and successful handlers have spoken (and written!) about these - Eric Dorssers, Emma Maxwell, Princess Alia Al Hussein to name a few...

I'm proud to own an Arabian horse.
 
Haven't read all replies, but I watched the holding ring for the Arab classes at The South of England Show, as Exmoors were in the same area. I ended up walking away after threatening to wrap a whip around some woman's head (said to OH, since they're violent enough with their horses). There were people with balls on the end of whips, pom poms, clips...I was utterly appalled.
 
I highly rate eric and emma, infact emma trained my mare when she was a filly before i brought her, i love the way they show aswell as joanna ullstrom she really shows naturally but still with the flash and presence of everyone else, she shows through out the world as well as teaching ametures the same with love.
But people like this are extreemly well established that they stay with their regular clients where are up and coming younger generation handlers are feeling the stress for keeping their clients with them, you'll see horses being shown theough the season by 2 or 3 different handlers how can a horse settle?
It seems abit cut throat now, but at the end of the day horse is more than just rosettes and prize money.
 
Personally I wouldn't be interested in an arab that had been used for in hand showing as a riding horse. For some obscure reason showing peeps seem to think if it's a failure showing they can offload it into endurance, when these horses need to be bred to work and preferably be sane. The breed is much maligned through what people see on the showing circuit, and the psycos (I've known some) who've had their brains blown by the 'training'. I own Crabbets, so thankfully we have the 'old-fashioned' classes where frozen pose etc is not allowed, and a calm sensible temperament is rewarded. If this type of class is not well supported by people voting with their feet at shows, then the current abomination will continue. People say Crabbet owners are lucky to have these classes. Er, no, we have made the positive choice not to follow 'fashion' and 'trends'. We have remained true to the horse and the idea behind the breed. Anyone can do this, either own a Crabbet or support old-fashioned classes when they are offered.
 
Ainoga said:
My own mare loves showing off and enjoys a bit of encouragement with the rustle of a bag, rattle of some stones and some clapping.
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What would you say to those who think it is rather anthropomorphic to assume a horse loves and enjoys these things rather than simply being startled into a higher level of excitement? I think it's probably harmless.
 
ultimately its the fault of the judges. If they sent the frozen pose cantering madly instead of trotting ones out of the ring and gave the rosettes to the nice calm ones the problem would solve itself.
 
JoannaC said:
The modern Arabian horse leaves me cold. I love the Crabbet look which can also be found in other types of arab. My gelding is Crabbet/Polish which is a lovely mix and my mare pure Crabbet. Both are great riding horses and a pleasure to look at although the modern enthusiast would call them plain! I love seeing Arabians natural and think all the shaving and make up just make them ugly. To me inhand showing should be about getting youngsters out and about for experience before they are broken to ride and can't understand why in hand show horses are worth so much more money than a lovely riding horse. The Crabbet classes are still run traditionally and are well represented but I think I read somewhere that some shows did put on an amateur class to be shown traditionally but there was very little take up.
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My arab was a polish/crabbet.
He didn't do very well above local level as he was too plain and not flamboyant enough but you know what he was the best all rounder you could have ever asked for
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