Are basic horsemanship principles not taught anymore ?

AdorableAlice

AdorableAlice

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Attended a training session last night. Riding club novice level, flatwork, poles and small grids.

The horses worked for 50 minutes with plenty of stretching and walking but all bar ours were unclipped and got hot and puffed.

Back at the boxes I was astounded to see one of the horses fed a bucket of grub as soon as it got to it's box. Still tacked up, steaming and out of breath. It was untacked whilst it fed.

All the gear and no idea I guess.
 
I often see some odd things at these types of events, im off to an RC camp end of next month- mildly concerned at what i will see then!
 
I wouldn't take a steaming, puffing horse back to it's box in the first place - don't people cool them off properly (walk round the block mounted, or lead inhand until stopped puffing)?
 
Lots do not learn the basics but only to ride then onto sharing, loaning, buying and lessons from instructors where again it is all about riding. Only Pony Club teaches stable management at all and encourages learning whilst trying to instill good practice into people so it lasts, not everybody goes to Pony Club. Horse colleges or BHS exams teach it but plenty have horses and never do those either or fail to keep up the standards after exams. People could learn from books but choose not to. I was taught not to let an unclipped horse sweat because of the difficulties drying them off properly so if you did not clip you mostly only walked, with a little bit of trot and the odd short canter occasionally. If you wanted to jump or to canter on most rides, you clipped. Maybe modern wicking rugs make this unnecessary? Still feel sorry for the puffed out horses though. The food might have only been chaff so that does not bother me.
 
The horses were able to do the work, what shocked me was the bucket of food given to a hot horse.

On Firefly's comment, any food, hay, chaff corn etc, given to a hot and blowing horse can easily cause problems, not least choke.
 
Any decent trainer, college or riding school will also share their experience and advice on general horsemanship. Whilst there are different ways of doing things, too many people don't care enough to want to learn, or do know but can't be bothered.

We had it drilled into us from a very young age that you looked after your horse, and that included learning about the reasons behind it (ie build up of lactic acid, potential for choke/colic etc) - if we didn't like it or didn't want to it, we didn't get to do the fun stuff. I doubt a lot establishments teach this now (a lot of time and effort went into educating us outside of lesson time). I have no idea how else to describe them but where I live there are a lot of 'beach pony ride' type schools! The students there 'ride', but they don't learn or really know how to ride independently outside of the school, and that also translates into the care of a horse too.
 
Well I would not feed a horse that is still blowing either but then I cool off at the end of a ride so it would not arrive back blowing. Most people seem to neither warm up or cool off and riding instructors do not help with that I have rarely seen one incorporate it into the lesson. I was taught walk the first mile out and the last mile home. Most people must think a mile equals one circuit of a 20x40 arena and for some reason people like to trot or canter up a hill and onto the yard. I have no idea what that is all about but every yard with a hill upto it that is what happens. I admit other peoples horse care regime is often a mystery to me so I leave them to it.
 
I dont think so :(

At an RC jump schooling session about a month or so ago, I was stared at like I had 3 heads when I didn't get off at the end of the session, but went to walk off for a cool down. Instructor had to move straight on to the next session, so next group were waiting for us to finish & we had worked hard on grids etc.
CF was not nearly so steaming as others, but not one of the other 3 attempted to walk off after! Was very shocked :(
We all had at least 30 mins drive home, if not longer, the yard we were at had a good track for cool down to use. I did ask the others if they were coming, but nobody moved, just stared at me......

Seems a lot of basic care & principles are either not taught, or ignored these days :(
 
Firefly9410 said:
Lots do not learn the basics but only to ride then onto sharing, loaning, buying and lessons from instructors where again it is all about riding. Only Pony Club teaches stable management at all and encourages learning whilst trying to instill good practice into people so it lasts, not everybody goes to Pony Club. Horse colleges or BHS exams teach it but plenty have horses and never do those either or fail to keep up the standards after exams. People could learn from books but choose not to. I was taught not to let an unclipped horse sweat because of the difficulties drying them off properly so if you did not clip you mostly only walked, with a little bit of trot and the odd short canter occasionally. If you wanted to jump or to canter on most rides, you clipped. Maybe modern wicking rugs make this unnecessary? Still feel sorry for the puffed out horses though. The food might have only been chaff so that does not bother me.
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Err I never went to Pony Club, because in my day, they wouldn't let you in if you didn't have a pony (I am 32). I LEARNT stable management from being a a helper at a riding school. From what I have seen Pony Club is not the be all and end all and certainly the teenagers at my last yard clearly learnt nothing about looking after their ponies at Pony Club and still had to have their mothers check their girths!
 
I didn't go to pony club either, I learned at riding school from being knee high, it was drummed into me on a daily basis. However, the owner was my auntie, and I daresay the amount of pony experience I got (hours a day) would cost an awful lot under normal circumstances, so maybe it doesn't happen any more.

By the bye, my girl has never been out of puff at the end of a session. She's not that fit, we're just both very lazy!
 
It' simple stuff which aggravates me, like not knowing how to put a rug on properly, or getting on a stabled horse and trotting it off the yard. I see stuff like this ALL the time. I will always tell someone who has the rope wrapped round their hand to please not do it, otherwise I keep my gob shut as am considered interfering. People all seem to want to reinvent horsemanship and the horses suffer along the way.
I am always happy for someone to tell me stuff,, why are people who are clueless so twitchy & so defensive (answered my own question I suppose)
I had a row with a gorm the other week as he refused to get a vet to a horse with an arterial cut on it's leg. Sprayed some purple spray on & that was it, horse survived so I suppose he had a point, but he really did not like me suggesting he wasn't the best person to deal with the injury.
 
To be fair surely warm up and cool down should be part of the session? My instructor always, for want of a better word, instructs cool down.

As for the question I think its always been the same, you get people who want to learn and want to do right by their horses and therefore learn about things and read and ask questions. You also always get the sort who never bother and do not care. I remember that sort when I was young with their horses living in dirty stables and the owners not caring for them and people like me and my sister, who with the support of our mum, because lets face it we were kids, doing the best we could. Now those kids are non horsey adults and me and my sister both have horses. For some its just not a passion its a pass time.
 
Local RS has a "pony club" for kiddies during winter months, they do stable management. The most exciting bit seems to be mucking out!
In the indoor school they learn how to set up trotting poles and small jumps [requires team work], and then they can do some jumping, no ponies!
Ponies are used to show tack and anatomy.
In the classroom they make models for horses at pasture, there are ragworts and water troughs, field shelters, hay in winter, hedges for shelter and so on.
They get to clean the tack, in their own way! and they are shown how to recognise various feeds.
In summer they have pony club camp which involves sleeping overnight in basic conditions, apparently one girl had to go home because there were no showers!
I can't be doing with a dirty stable, everything is washed every summer, and it is really clean every day. I find it is really easy to wipe tack over every time it is used, it is part of the safety checks, and takes no time with a spray cleaner.
 
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I'm another non-pony club person. I learnt by reading all I could get my hands on and helping out at a local yard in my teens. I didn't think my standards were particularly high I thought I was just doing all right until a few years ago when someone told me 'you keep you horses to a very high standard' - it's just that I like things done properly. The only time I scrimp a bit is when on a friend's yard where I just can't keep up with them if I do it my way - I'll spend an hour grooming before going out - they whip rugs off and saddles on! I still insist on at least a quick brush off for the horse I ride, but it is sooooo not how I am used to doing things. They also use the same wheelbarrow for poo picking and to take hay out to the fields in - not something I would ever, ever do. As to cooling off after exercise - we're on a different planet there as well! Although even they wouldn't give a feed straight away to a hot horse.
 
Laafet said:
Err I never went to Pony Club, because in my day, they wouldn't let you in if you didn't have a pony (I am 32). I LEARNT stable management from being a a helper at a riding school. From what I have seen Pony Club is not the be all and end all and certainly the teenagers at my last yard clearly learnt nothing about looking after their ponies at Pony Club and still had to have their mothers check their girths!
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Maybe it depends on the branch how strict they are with what they teach or allow. I am similar in age and was ponyless when I joined. My branch was good with fairly high standards I thought and the only bad thing I saw was people using their pony as a seat at shows instead of getting off to rest it between classes. I agree riding schools used to be good places to learn stable management and would drum it into people same as Pony Club but they do not let people volunteer now because of insurance I think it is, such a shame. But nobody will learn anything if they do not want to, it goes straight through their ears without sticking in the middle. Not just teenagers. I had a friend in her 40s who had no interest in learning, she knew the very basics and bought a horse then learned more as and when necessary to sort out whatever latest problem had occurred. It was a deliberate decision on her part to do things that way.
 
I personally find that a lot of people don't really care about horsemanship anymore. Those that do, do it very well, but are looked at strangely. Many of the kids I teach don't want to learn about horse care, and don't clean tack unless pushed. They do want to learn about horse fitness, and will do certain basics, but otherwise it isn't important.
I taught at pony club camp over the summer, albeit only at mini camp, and we had one stable management session. The older girls I teach regularly did say they didn't do much stable management at camp, and didn't learn anything new at all. I think they did there C test, and one did the C + but it sounds like it was a box ticking exercise.
The modern kit that has become available, means it should be easier to look after horses properly, but I think it has also made people lazy.
 
siennamum said:
It' simple stuff which aggravates me, like not knowing how to put a rug on properly, or getting on a stabled horse and trotting it off the yard. I see stuff like this ALL the time. I will always tell someone who has the rope wrapped round their hand to please not do it, otherwise I keep my gob shut as am considered interfering. People all seem to want to reinvent horsemanship and the horses suffer along the way.
I am always happy for someone to tell me stuff,, why are people who are clueless so twitchy & so defensive (answered my own question I suppose)
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The other week one of the members of staff at my yard had to come and tell me that when she arrived in the morning my ponys rug was on the wrong way around. Yep, my loaners mum, left unattended for one evening, had out the string under her neck and the clips around her bum. They had been loaning her at least 6 months.

NOT impressed, as I made abundantly clear. She wasn't impressed at being told off by someone a third of her age.
 
I encountered the phrase "why would anyone clip a highland?" recently. I was tempted to respond by informing them that if they bothered to work their animals properly enough to require clipping, they might not be dangerously obese :/ But hey, that's what people do :rolleyes3:

I'm all for efficiency in horse keeping - but feeding a hot, sweaty horse straight after work :o
 
Polar Bear9 said:
my loaners mum, left unattended for one evening, had out the string under her neck and the clips around her bum. They had been loaning her at least 6 months.

NOT impressed, as I made abundantly clear. She wasn't impressed at being told off by someone a third of her age.
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Surely it would have been more productive to say 'Thank you for trying to help, but the rug was actually on the wrong way round! Do you want me to show you how to put it on properly?'.

It sounds like the mum was just trying to be helpful. The fact that you 'told her off' has probably done you or the horse no favours. No wonder people are scared to ask questions!
 
SpringArising said:
Surely it would have been more productive to say 'Thank you for trying to help, but the rug was actually on the wrong way round! Do you want me to show you how to put it on properly?'.

It sounds like the mum was just trying to be helpful. The fact that you 'told her off' has probably done you or the horse no favours. No wonder people are scared to ask questions!
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I may not have been hugely sympathetic but she's been doing it for 6 months with her daughter and every time I offer to help her with something she tells me how long she's been around horses and how much more than me she knows. It's not a loan that will last much longer.
 
One of the greatest problems is the rise of the DIY yard - they are fine if you know how to DIY but for new horse owners it is the end of their learning other than from books or internet forums and you have to say that neither option is good advice as the advisers have not seen the horse/pony in question. Bring back the proper livery yard with good YO/manager who is able to give constructive advice and help to those who have not yet had the opportunity to acquire the knowledge. And everyone should remember that they were not born knowing everything they have had to acquire their knowledge somehow! Maybe the Riding Clubs could run some basic care training evenings? Would anyone come?!
 
Afraid to ask questions?! People should be afraid to ask stupid questions - what happened to independent research?! How hard is it to google a rug and see how it sits on a horse? People have never had so much access to information (and trustworthy on basic stuff like that) and yet they seem never to have been lazier about finding it for themselves >:(

I'm seriously grumpy today!
 
Or that! I forget other people have yards with other horses on :p

I just don't understand the trend of wilful ignorance.
 
sport horse said:
Maybe the Riding Clubs could run some basic care training evenings? Would anyone come?!
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Probably and sadly not as have organised a few lecture evenings for RC and it is really difficult to get bums on seats. Vet lectures or ones on nutrition are more popular. Plus the people you want to come think they know it all already so wouldn't even twig it applied to them.

I was a studious child and a great reader and would settle down with some mammoth encyclopaedia of horsemanship and work through it. That coupled with reading Black Beauty and a plethora of Pullein-Thompson stories with moral and practical lessons gave me much more knowledge than any riding school ever did. Did PC later which at the time was strict on turn-out and horse care.
 
JFTD said:
Afraid to ask questions?! People should be afraid to ask stupid questions - what happened to independent research?! How hard is it to google a rug and see how it sits on a horse? People have never had so much access to information (and trustworthy on basic stuff like that) and yet they seem never to have been lazier about finding it for themselves >:(

I'm seriously grumpy today!
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I get this kind of thing on photography forums a lot and it generally boils down to the fact that self learning, researching and even just using google are all skills. They are skills that not everyone has; otherwise we'd all have degrees because that's largely what a degree is.

Now its true to say that they are indeed skills that most people can learn and whilst not all will master them most should be capable of using them. However pausing someone who is wanting to learn one hobby (be it riding, photography, art, etc...) And telling them to go learn a whole new skill in a whole new and different direction often doesn't work.

I would also say that google is a bit of a mixed bag. In general you sometimes have to often know the answer, or at least part of it, before you can actually formulate a question for it to search on. Furthermore it ranks things by popularity and commerce first. It's very easy to get searches where the majority of the first pages are all shops selling products - or ones where you get information that is highly opinionated. For horses I'd expect that weight/size/training etc... .all the myriad of differences from horse to horse also plays havoc with getting information and that's before we've even touched on different theories of approach to the same subject. Even on forums one can see debate between different approaches or guidelines.

It's a bit of a minefield and sometimes its easier, no better to ask someone - or rather several someones in a forum. It's rather like a teacher at uni - they might not give all the info; but htey give a grounding - a place to start and hopefully links/suggestions on further reading that they'd advise is worth consulting.
 
All valid points, except that all you have to do is look on image search at a photo of a horse in a rug to get it the right way round!

If PB9 was complaining that her loaner's mother had started an inappropriate (but not absurd) feeding regime, or starting a contentious management regime I would agree. But putting a rug on backwards?! This isn't rocket science and I think it's a bit condescending to suggest the vast majority of people couldn't work it out with a little effort!
 
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Would seem not and we are back to horses being too cheap and lessons too expensive if it was the other way round people would learn before investing. Just been asked to teach a boy who has had 4 years at riding school and has just been bought his first horse. Not only does he know nothing about its welfare he couldn't even hold the reins properly and is not able to steer his new horse round an indoor arena It is very frustrating to say the least as he thinks he can ride so blames the horse all the time
I suppose you have to know how to spell a word to find it in the dictionary
 
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