Are gypsy cobs a recognised breed now??

horserider said:
What, in every country with a stud book ? Do you not think the gypsy cob is worthy of being registered and having a standard for future breeding ?
Having been fortunate enough to see some progeny of some of the foundation stallions. I am certainly in favour of the breed being saved from indiscrimate breeding.
Your comment about some unnamed woman making money from promoting gypsy cobs is a bit like saying the registry of Suffolk punches was due to a business plan by Thomas Crisp.
Click to expand...


Calm down dear, I made no comment on the horses whatsoever.
 
doriangrey said:
I'm not sure if this is correct or not but to establish a breed don't they have to breed 'true'? So, for instance you might get badly put together horses of any breed but they must be recognisable as that breed and probably pass a DNA test also. I'd imagine it would be difficult with Gypsy cobs because cobby/hairy types (good and bad examples) are often referred to as Gypsy cobs. I think it's a good idea to tighten it all up and try and establish a breed. Who decides on when it becomes a breed and not just a type, is there a committee?
Click to expand...

That's the thing though. 'True' gypsy cobs would surely be of the type typically bred by gypsies themselves, rather than any coloured cob. So in other words, 'true' gypsy cobs would be the sort which are shoved in a field to breed anything which is coloured, over and over again. So surely also, it would be the gypsies themselves who decided what a 'well put together gyspy cob is'? ;-)
 
The gypsy breeders do have a very strong idea of what they want to see. And the prices they want for a good example are eyewatering. THe ones they breed to sell to the general public as Gypsy Cobs don't tend to be the sort they would wish to keep.
 
Last edited:
jemima*askin said:
The gypsy breeders do have a very strong idea of what they want to see. And the prices they want for a good example are eyewatering. THe ones they breed to sell to the general public as Gypsy Cobs don't tend to be the sort they would wish to keep.
Click to expand...

Yes that's correct. Some of their 'examples' of horses sell for up to £100,000. IMO, the majority of gypsy cobs have abyssmal conformation though.
 
Moomin1 said:
That's the thing though. 'True' gypsy cobs would surely be of the type typically bred by gypsies themselves, rather than any coloured cob. So in other words, 'true' gypsy cobs would be the sort which are shoved in a field to breed anything which is coloured, over and over again.
Click to expand...


The gypsy community have an enviable tradition of breeding and were wise enough to see the value of coloured horses when the army needed any horses except coloured ones who would be too visible for them to use.
Its untrue that ' true' gypsy cobs are shoved in a field to breed with anything that is coloured. The best stock are owned by knowledgeable horsemen with a passion for breeding the best.
 
dogatemysalad said:
The gypsy community have an enviable tradition of breeding and were wise enough to see the value of coloured horses when the army needed any horses except coloured ones who would be too visible for them to use.
Its untrue that ' true' gypsy cobs are shoved in a field to breed with anything that is coloured. The best stock are owned by knowledgeable horsemen with a passion for breeding the best.
Click to expand...

Well, I would disagree, coming across traveller and gypsy cobs on an almost daily basis.

Agree that you get certain gypsies who breed a little more constructively and controlled, however they are not common in the grand scheme of things. For every 'decent' gypsy cob out there, there are tons of others who are indiscriminately breeding and have horrific conformation. But that's just my experience and opinion on the matter.

Oh, and I also wouldn't call that 'enviable' breeding I'm afraid. Unless of course you take into account the masses of money being made for rather poor examples of horses.
 
Moomin1 said:
That's the thing though. 'True' gypsy cobs would surely be of the type typically bred by gypsies themselves, rather than any coloured cob. So in other words, 'true' gypsy cobs would be the sort which are shoved in a field to breed anything which is coloured, over and over again. So surely also, it would be the gypsies themselves who decided what a 'well put together gyspy cob is'? ;-)
Click to expand...

Honestly I have no idea what a true Gypsy cob is, but I would have thought that anyone breeding would still go for good conformation even if it includes feather and more bone (and there's bone and bone don't get me started on that - sounds rude though)! It's like the cob thread the other day. In my day lol, a cob was a horse that was above 15hh but had shorter legs like a pony, could have a plain head but never coarse especially through the throat. Good sloping shoulder, leg in each corner and absolutely no feather and always a solid colour. Strong enough to carry a farmer hunting all day!! They were usually quality animals. Now, the term cob has a different connotation imo.
 
doriangrey said:
Honestly I have no idea what a true Gypsy cob is, but I would have thought that anyone breeding would still go for good conformation even if it includes feather and more bone (and there's bone and bone don't get me started on that - sounds rude though)! It's like the cob thread the other day. In my day lol, a cob was a horse that was above 15hh but had shorter legs like a pony, could have a plain head but never coarse especially through the throat. Good sloping shoulder, leg in each corner and absolutely no feather and always a solid colour. Strong enough to carry a farmer hunting all day!! They were usually quality animals. Now, the term cob has a different connotation imo.
Click to expand...

Hahaha!! I think you need to elaborate more on the distinction between 'bone' and 'bone'! ;-)

The things is with gypsy cobs, is that yes, the gypsies are looking for something in particular in their horses - but that isn't what people outside of the travelling community would generally look for conformationally unless they are either interested in something to pull carts, or road trotting IMO. I'm not saying of course that gypsy cobs aren't able to turn their hoof to other stuff obviously, but conformationally they aren't as well adapted for the likes of dressage/jumping/for speed etc.
 
Thicker bone doesn't always mean better bone ;) You probably don't need me to tell you that Thoroughbreds/arabs although 'fine' boned have very dense, strong bone. I have noticed that some Gypsy cob breeders stress how short-coupled they are as a plus. I'm not saying it isn't but it does seem to be a breeding/selling point.

ETA - actually I remember it's just stallions where I've seen that being short coupled is advantageous.
 
Last edited:
doriangrey said:
Thicker bone doesn't always mean better bone ;) You probably don't need me to tell you that Thoroughbreds/arabs although 'fine' boned have very dense, strong bone. I have noticed that some Gypsy cob breeders stress how short-coupled they are as a plus. I'm not saying it isn't but it does seem to be a breeding point.
Click to expand...

Yes you are quite right - it's the quality of bone which counts. :-)

They do seem to prefer short coupled and higher crouped horses which I find strange as it's one of my conformational pet hates. But of course, that's just my humble opinion. :-)
 
I guess its the difference between a TB colt priced at £200 and one priced at £200,000. Every breed has poorly put together examples.
Not quite sure what you mean about preferring higher crouped horses though ? Short coupled is desirable, as a long back would be completely out of proportion for a compact, muscular horse.
 
Here's my question then, how would a real Gypsy describe their breed standard of a real Gypsy cob? Is it similar to the DEFRA breed standard for instance?
 
I'm from the North East, right smack bang in the middle of several large settled Traveller communities. The good cobs sell for terrifying money and can be traced hundreds of years back verbally, but there are people breeding dross! I'm very lucky. I have a cob, county standard at least. Smart, compact, loads of hair, but would look equally as good without, moves beautifully for his type, tons of presence and so, so, soo easy that as a 3 yr old thats only had 3 proper riding sessions I feel confident letting any semi decent rider on him. I'm hoping he will make me a good county standard traditional. If he was bigger he would be clipped bald and be a show cob.

Starting a registry is no bad thing! I like others, wish I'd thought of it :D But there does need to be something done to sort the wheat from the chaff!

I'm fairly sure HHO was one of the forums I joined after a local lady started her own, DEFRA approved breed, based on one poor quality iberian type stallion and any mare with a functioning womb she could get for free :( Its icnredibly easy to set up your own breed. And as much as it sounds lie I"m hugely pro gypsy cobs, I'm not really! i love mine, hes the first proper hairy I've had after years of sports horses. But its never a bad thing for someone to set up something to record pedigrees etc.

I see ads all the time saying "out of the DAaey Jones Black Stalion" Which is great, but I'd rather it was proven and verified and efforts were made to improve the breed as the TGACA are doing :)
 
doriangrey said:
Here's my question then, how would a real Gypsy describe their breed standard of a real Gypsy cob? Is it similar to the DEFRA breed standard for instance?
Click to expand...

DEFRA gives approval but the breed standard is set by the organisation who hold the stud book ,the TGCA, here in the UK, in the same way the KWPN would define the standard for Dutch Warmbloods.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top