Are horses being 'babied'?

[Goldenstar]

I think your wording has got you into a bit of a hole here but I think maybe if I've got the right end of the stick I'd agree. People definitely can be guilty of wasting the vets time and being over-paranoid where as before "in the olden days" people seem more willing to get on with it themselve. I'd say this is down to people being under educated or novice.
Personally I'd rather be over paranoid and get the vet out as I don't consider myself over savvy with the likes of medical things- or very confident for thst matter!

You can never ever waste a vets time , just as you canot waste the time of someone working in a shop when you buy a tee short you don't need , you are not wasting a vets time when you you call them out when it's not strictly needed .
Vets practises are buisnesses selling vets services .

 

[luckyoldme]

I prefer to look at this in a different way. Really as a business idea its perfect. Turn up have a look at someones horse , tell them how fit and healthy it looks and that theres nothing serious to worry about and then rush them £50. I dont think any party is unduly troubled by this transaction and its a good little earner.

 

[Tnavas]

You can never ever waste a vets time , just as you canot waste the time of someone working in a shop when you buy a tee short you don't need , you are not wasting a vets time when you you call them out when it's not strictly needed .
Vets practises are buisnesses selling vets services .

Except when you read on here that people are waiting several days for a vets appointment, a vets time is precious and should be used by those that really need it.

Many things can be dealt with easily by the horse owner but they have to make an effort to learn. There are not only books but educational centres now that run courses - make the effort to learn how to deal with minor injuries - if you should happen to look st the content of the Pony Club certificates a 12 year old child is expected to be able to identify and treat minor wounds, ailments and sprains. They are expected to be able to tell you the signs, symptoms and treatment for laminitis, equine flu and strangles - if they can learn at their tender age than adults can too. They learn the difference between arterial blood and venous blood and where to place a tourniquet to stop the bleeding.

You owe it to your horse to know how to look after him properly!

 

[Mrs G]

I am lucky in that I live not far from a couple of very good equestrian colleges and I did about 3 years of evening classes on and off at college before I got my own horse but I found I learnt far more in my first six months of actually owning a horse than I did doing the theory of horse care and practicing on very quiet, well behaved horses and schoolmasters. Don't get me wrong - I loved the classes and it definitely gave me a grounding of good practice and gave me the basics, but until you are ultimately responsible for a horse day in and day out, you don't know what you don't know (if you see what I mean!). I also agree that those who really care are continuously willing to learn, but not everyone has the option of going to a college and as a non horsey person initially I found it near impossible to get hands on with horses - very few people want a novice handling their horses....

 

[Auslander]

Conversely, I think that a lot of people do not have an idea of when to call the vet - and leave it far too long while they fiddle around with an array of alternative remedies or advice from self styled experts on and offline, or they are just blissfully unaware that there is something wrong with their horse.
I'm very experienced, and I also work in the veterinary industry, so have access to far greater minds than my own - and I use them shamelessly. Sure, there are things that I have been seeing/treating for years, but I like to know that what I've been doing for 20 years hasn't been superseded by a treatment/technique that is superior.
My vets are always happy to talk through things that are bothering me, even if they aren't things that require a visit. Both practices would far rather that clients called them, than went onto a Facebook group and got given 150 pieces of conflicting advice - most of it completely wrong!

 

[GinaGeo]

When I had ponies I think we had the vet once. When my mare went down with horse flu after the yard was struck.

Since I've had a TB x I've seen the vet four times this year. The first when he had cellulitis and required antibiotics to shift it. Second and third when his knee blew up like a tennis ball and required draining and injecting. And finally a couple of days ago when his leg blew up, no cut etc. to be seen for an infection to get in, iced, bandaged and box rested it for a couple of days. No change seen. Vet came out, antibiotics and buted. The leg was back to normal the next day.

Some horses are just more prone to accident and injury it would seem... That or mine just likes a regular visit from the vet...

I certainly don't call the vet for just anything, but if I am concerned about anything I'd rather call the vet there and then. Mine is very good and is quite happy to go through things over the phone and leaves me to bandage things without coming back everyday. But then my horses aren't insured, so they don't have that excuse to run with...

 

[seejay]

Looking through a lot of posts here and one thing struck me in particular. Peoples first impulse seems to be to call the vet out. Whether it be for a cough or a filled leg, the vet is the first port of call.

Now I haven't been dealing with horses for years or anything, but being from a farming background with a father that is able to resolve most problems that arise with the cattle, my head would be saying to hold off for a few days and see how things play out. Obviously I would call a vet for something serious eg. a colic, synovial joint injury, deep wound etc.

Surely this is making horses 'soft', or am I just too harsh on the animals and should be calling the vet out more often ��

Can we take your pony with the fat leg as an example? She has a fat leg that you have treated with vinegar and brown paper (sorry, clay and clingfilm) and it has gone down.

You will no doubt ride her again soon, and judging by how soon you hunted your other horse, two weeks after recovering from lameness, you may well hunt her.

If you called a vet, they may have scanned the leg and found a minor ligament or tendon injury which would be cured by a month of field rest. If you hunt her with such an injury, she would need a year off to recover, and possibly never would.

Other scenarios are that if the swelling had been lymphangitis or cellulitis instead, and the swelling had not gone down, then you might have been too late getting antibiotics into her to prevent a serious systemic infection, possibly life threatening.

Do I think it is ever 'too early' for an owner in doubt to call a vet? No, it can do no harm except to the owner's pocket.

Too late? Often.

 

[Goldenstar]

Except when you read on here that people are waiting several days for a vets appointment, a vets time is precious and should be used by those that really need it.

Many things can be dealt with easily by the horse owner but they have to make an effort to learn. There are not only books but educational centres now that run courses - make the effort to learn how to deal with minor injuries - if you should happen to look st the content of the Pony Club certificates a 12 year old child is expected to be able to identify and treat minor wounds, ailments and sprains. They are expected to be able to tell you the signs, symptoms and treatment for laminitis, equine flu and strangles - if they can learn at their tender age than adults can too. They learn the difference between arterial blood and venous blood and where to place a tourniquet to stop the bleeding.

You owe it to your horse to know how to look after him properly!

All this post is totally irrelevant to what I posted .
I would not wait several days for a vet to come to see something that worried me I call and expect them them pronto that's what I pay through the nose for .
If it's an non urgent call rechecks / vaccs things like that no one minds waiting .
But that's why I am the client of a large and expensive practise , If I feel I need a vet I call they come that's what I pay for.

 

[seejay]

Looking through a lot of posts here and one thing struck me in particular. Peoples first impulse seems to be to call the vet out. Whether it be for a cough or a filled leg, the vet is the first port of call.

Now I haven't been dealing with horses for years or anything, but being from a farming background with a father that is able to resolve most problems that arise with the cattle, my head would be saying to hold off for a few days and see how things play out. Obviously I would call a vet for something serious eg. a colic, synovial joint injury, deep wound etc.

Surely this is making horses 'soft', or am I just too harsh on the animals and should be calling the vet out more often 😂

Can we take your pony with the fat leg as an example? She has a fat leg that you have treated with vinegar and brown paper (sorry, clay and clingfilm) and it has gone down.

You will no doubt ride her again soon, and judging by how soon you hunted your other horse, two weeks after recovering from lameness, you may well hunt her.

If you called a vet, they may have scanned the leg and found a minor ligament injury which would be cured by a month of field rest. If you hunt her with such an injury, she could need a year off to recover, and possibly never would.

Other scenarios are that if the swelling had been lymphangitis or cellulitis instead, and the swelling had not gone down, then you might have been too late getting antibiotics into her to prevent a serious systemic infection, possibly life threatening.

Do I think it is ever 'too early' for an owner in doubt to call a vet? No, it can do no harm except to the owner's pocket.

Too late? Often.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Conversely, I think that a lot of people do not have an idea of when to call the vet - and leave it far too long while they fiddle around with an array of alternative remedies or advice from self styled experts on and offline, or they are just blissfully unaware that there is something wrong with their horse.

My vets are always happy to talk through things that are bothering me, even if they aren't things that require a visit. Both practices would far rather that clients called them, than went onto a Facebook group and got given 150 pieces of conflicting advice - most of it completely wrong!

This, except that I use one vet practice, instead of 2. I can always call mine and discuss anything, and they never try and force a visit on me if we're both happy that I can manage the horse's ailment myself.

I can cope competently with most first aid procedures, but I'm very aware that a little knowledge is a bad thing, and prefer if in doubt to get veterinary advice at an early stage rather than bash on regardless.

 

[luckyoldme]

Im just surprised that so many people have so many opinions on how other people look afyer their horses. Given that so many horses are neglected and not tsken proper care of, it surprises me that calling the vet out to early can evan be entertained as an issue.

 

[Doublethyme]

Conversely, I think that a lot of people do not have an idea of when to call the vet - and leave it far too long while they fiddle around with an array of alternative remedies or advice from self styled experts on and offline, or they are just blissfully unaware that there is something wrong with their horse.
I'm very experienced, and I also work in the veterinary industry, so have access to far greater minds than my own - and I use them shamelessly. Sure, there are things that I have been seeing/treating for years, but I like to know that what I've been doing for 20 years hasn't been superseded by a treatment/technique that is superior.
My vets are always happy to talk through things that are bothering me, even if they aren't things that require a visit. Both practices would far rather that clients called them, than went onto a Facebook group and got given 150 pieces of conflicting advice - most of it completely wrong!

Good post. I'd far rather see someone 'wasting' a paid professionals time than letting a horse plod on with a self diagnosed hope they know what is wrong with it. Really angers me the 'well what can the vet tell me that I can't see' attitude. Obviously it's common sense to learn basic care and first aid but if in doubt call the vet.

I have had at least two incidences where even the vet was on the fence and ready to say its nothing serious on wounds that looked very straight forward initially but were actually life threatening. One was an extremely lucky catch by my sister on my 2 year old who even with immediate veterinary intervention ended up in surgery with a tendon sheath flush and an uncertain outlook which thankfully went the right way due to my sister's quick thinking and observation on a 'nothing' wound.

My money, my decisions. If that makes me soft, so be it. Probably why I have my old retired girl still rattling around on the best care too.

But then even a soft numpty like me knows how to condition a horse for hard work like hunting and to take seriously a lame horse with a swollen leg...........

 

[Goldenstar]

Im just surprised that so many people have so many opinions on how other people look afyer their horses. Given that so many horses are neglected and not tsken proper care of, it surprises me that calling the vet out to early can evan be entertained as an issue.

Me too.

 

[NativePonyLover]

I'm not 'inexperienced' but, at the end of the day, I pay to have the best professionals I can to look after my horse - not just vets, but EDT, barefoot trimmer, saddle fitters, physiotherapist & two trainers & I use them regularly if I have a concern.

To be fair, I'm actually more like to call my longstanding trainer for 'day to day' things - she knows my horse, has a science/veterinary based background & has trained and competed to a high level. If I'm not sure to be worried, I'll give her a call & she'll advise me.

I rung my barefoot trimmer a couple of days ago, as my horse changed fields & had laminitis last year. He's been on a super strict diet & I've been in SUCH a learning curve, but I wasn't sure whether to leave him in for a while, muzzle him or not to be concerned as it's winter. It took 5 minutes of her time & she advised the best course of action.

If I didn't have such a great team of people I can trust 100% (and I haven't always), I'd probably have rung my vet for advice.

If knowing when I need a little more specialist knowledge to safeguard the well being of my horse is 'babying', then yes I do. But, I'd rather ask & have someone come out to see him, than potentially risk my horses health because 'well, he did live wild on the New Forest & wouldn't have been seen by a vet then ...' .

 

[Tnavas]

All this post is totally irrelevant to what I posted .
I would not wait several days for a vet to come to see something that worried me I call and expect them them pronto that's what I pay through the nose for .
If it's an non urgent call rechecks / vaccs things like that no one minds waiting .
But that's why I am the client of a large and expensive practise , If I feel I need a vet I call they come that's what I pay for.

Sorry I didn't make my post clear, People are having to wait several days to get an appointment because the vet is so busy, not because they have waited before calling the vet.

 

[lhotse]

OP, your posting history isn't great, you seem to have very little horse knowledge. You take unfit horses hunting then it goes wrong, either with their behaviour of the their soundness. Is this thread to make you feel better about not getting the vet to your lame horse?
I still have my suspicions that you are infact Rileyboy though.....

 

[Goldenstar]

Sorry I didn't make my post clear, People are having to wait several days to get an appointment because the vet is so busy, not because they have waited before calling the vet.

In the uk this would not be acceptable practises have to be able to provide a level of cover laid down by the RCVS
I have never waited for a vet for any sort of injury that I am worried about and that is in fifty years .
If the vet is too busy then the practise needs more vet ,it's simple ,they have to provide the cover to work with the guidelines of their professional body .

 

[Tnavas]

In the uk this would not be acceptable practises have to be able to provide a level of cover laid down by the RCVS
I have never waited for a vet for any sort of injury that I am worried about and that is in fifty years .
If the vet is too busy then the practise needs more vet ,it's simple ,they have to provide the cover to work with the guidelines of their professional body .

It is what I have read many a time here in HHF, that people in the IK have had to wait several days for their vet to visit a lame horse.

Here in NZ my vet would be in attendance within a couple of hours, less if a real emergency.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Sorry I didn't make my post clear, People are having to wait several days to get an appointment because the vet is so busy, not because they have waited before calling the vet.

I think that here that would only be the case in single person, rural practices, if then. And hopefully the sort of person who lives that rurally, has half a clue or at least be practical. I've not met a vet yet who wouldn't make it to an emergency asap any way-which in those circumstances might be hours rather than days.


Agree with luckyoldme. rather they call the vet than stick the poor thing on turmeric in the hope that might do the trick!

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Sorry I didn't make my post clear, People are having to wait several days to get an appointment because the vet is so busy, not because they have waited before calling the vet.

I've never had a problem getting a vet - depending on the reason within less than an hour for colic or severe injury, same day for a sudden but not immediately life-threatening injury or illness or if routine book several day to a week in advance.

I tend to err on the side of caution because I've seen a fair few injuries that look fairly innocent turn into big problems by being left 24hrs or a day or two. I've ridden for over 40 years and always take an interest in anything veterinary, read a lot and having been on some larger yards I've seen a lot of stuff happen even though I've never worked with horses. I can afford to get the vet so I will as I see fit. I've rarely thought I've made the wrong call or wasted my money. It is worth it for my own peace of mind if nothing else.

 

[Arzada]

OP, your posting history isn't great, you seem to have very little horse knowledge. You take unfit horses hunting then it goes wrong, either with their behaviour of the their soundness. Is this thread to make you feel better about not getting the vet to your lame horse?

OP seemed to disappear from the Copper thread and I've wondered off and on how Copper is getting along.

 

[Aoibhinn]

Can we take your pony with the fat leg as an example? She has a fat leg that you have treated with vinegar and brown paper (sorry, clay and clingfilm) and it has gone down.

You will no doubt ride her again soon, and judging by how soon you hunted your other horse, two weeks after recovering from lameness, you may well hunt her.

If you called a vet, they may have scanned the leg and found a minor ligament or tendon injury which would be cured by a month of field rest. If you hunt her with such an injury, she would need a year off to recover, and possibly never would.

Other scenarios are that if the swelling had been lymphangitis or cellulitis instead, and the swelling had not gone down, then you might have been too late getting antibiotics into her to prevent a serious systemic infection, possibly life threatening.

Do I think it is ever 'too early' for an owner in doubt to call a vet? No, it can do no harm except to the owner's pocket.

Too late? Often.

My farrier has looked her over and said it is most likely a mild ligament or tendon injuring. I have been hosing the leg for 20 minutes 5 times a day and bandaging it with the clay at night. Thankfully, this has been working.

I am not going to ride her until I am 100% sure that she is sound. This pony has been amazing for me, she is possibly the best mannered, greatest pony I have ever come across. She is so obliging and would do anything you ask her. No way am I going to ruin her, she means too much to me.

 

[lhotse]

Your farrier is not qualified to diagnose a tendon injury, and I believe he could actually get in trouble for doing so. You need a vet to tell you what the damage is, tendons take a long time to heal, often appearing to be 'better' when they are not. If you don't want to ruin this pony, then get the vet.

 

[Aoibhinn]

OP, your posting history isn't great, you seem to have very little horse knowledge. You take unfit horses hunting then it goes wrong, either with their behaviour of the their soundness. Is this thread to make you feel better about not getting the vet to your lame horse?
I still have my suspicions that you are infact Rileyboy though.....

I am aware that my posting history makes me seem fairly stupid when it comes to care. I think that I really got off on the wrong foot with everyone unfortunately.

I had my reasons for bringing my unfit horse hunting, mainly because I was made do it and also because we figured an unfit horse is less likely to act up. This obviously failed miserably and I have since learned from my mistakes.

I did not feel the need to get the vet to look at the pony as I had a pretty good idea of what was wrong with her and how to treat it. Also, she is extremely fit and tough, she has been in work all year and has never given trouble.

I do actually know a bit about horse care & management (unbelievable I know right?). I do apologise for seeming very ignorant in some of my earlier posts but I spent years and years reading books on horse care to try and prove to my parents that I was not going 'through a phase'.

 

[Aoibhinn]

I think your wording has got you into a bit of a hole here but I think maybe if I've got the right end of the stick I'd agree. People definitely can be guilty of wasting the vets time and being over-paranoid where as before "in the olden days" people seem more willing to get on with it themselve. I'd say this is down to people being under educated or novice

Yes, that is the thing I am getting at. Seems that people used to have a more 'wait and see' attitude

 

[Aoibhinn]

SOOO agree with this. And yes, horses are babied outrageously, unnecessarily and to their and their owners detriment in every aspect: too much feed, wrong feed, unneeded supplements, not enough work, very poor riding, rugs all the time, lack of discipline/manners, and on and on. What happened?

I suppose that before horses used to be seen more as 'working animals' whereas now they are pets? Don't get me wrong, I absoloutely adore my lads and I do treat them like pets. But maybe all the extra things (rugs, too much feed, supplements etc.) could be bad for them...just a thought?

 

[Aoibhinn]

I think the big change in recent years is that most inexperienced horse owners keep their horses on a DIY basis and there is no experienced advice on the yard to help with minor injuries - and indeed help decide which are minor injuries/ailments and which are more serious.I came from a non horsey background and kept my first horse at livery and the yard owner ruled supreme. Yes it might have been my horse but if the YO said it needed a vet it got one and if YO said it did not need a vet it did not see one. Nowadays it seems that lifetime of experience is ignored by many new horse owners in favour of internet forums, books written by questionable authors and other novice owners on the yard!

I am lucky in an aspect that my neighbours are extremely good to me. They have dealt with horses for years and years and are extremely willing to help me with any problems. My parents siblings have horses but they all live far away, however my parents have no knowledge of horses whatsoever, typical that they would be stuck with me eh? Lol!

I am the same, if somebody experienced that I trust says horse does not need a vet, the vet does not come out. However if it is suggested that I get a vet, the vet is called immediately.

 

[Aoibhinn]

Many things can be dealt with easily by the horse owner but they have to make an effort to learn. There are not only books but educational centres now that run courses - make the effort to learn how to deal with minor injuries - if you should happen to look st the content of the Pony Club certificates a 12 year old child is expected to be able to identify and treat minor wounds, ailments and sprains. They are expected to be able to tell you the signs, symptoms and treatment for laminitis, equine flu and strangles - if they can learn at their tender age than adults can too. They learn the difference between arterial blood and venous blood and where to place a tourniquet to stop the bleeding.

You owe it to your horse to know how to look after him properly!

Totally agree! I have completed all PC tests up to B standard and we had to learn basic first aid when we were 10 years old. For the most recent test I have done, we had to learn different illnesses etc and a section on 'when to call the vet' which included colic, fractures, severe lameness, azoturia, deep wounds possibly requiring stitches etc.

It is amazing to see that some people do not know how to put on a simple stable babdage. Surely everybody should be able to do that? Or how to treat a minor cut. Those are things that come in useful in everyday things.

 

[Aoibhinn]

To be fair, I'm actually more like to call my longstanding trainer for 'day to day' things - she knows my horse, has a science/veterinary based background & has trained and competed to a high level. If I'm not sure to be worried, I'll give her a call & she'll advise me.

I rung my barefoot trimmer a couple of days ago, as my horse changed fields & had laminitis last year. He's been on a super strict diet & I've been in SUCH a learning curve, but I wasn't sure whether to leave him in for a while, muzzle him or not to be concerned as it's winter. It took 5 minutes of her time & she advised the best course of action.

If I didn't have such a great team of people I can trust 100% (and I haven't always), I'd probably have rung my vet for advice.

If knowing when I need a little more specialist knowledge to safeguard the well being of my horse is 'babying', then yes I do. But, I'd rather ask & have someone come out to see him, than potentially risk my horses health because 'well, he did live wild on the New Forest & wouldn't have been seen by a vet then ...' .

I am in the same boat. I have experienced people around me that I can trust and who know what they are doing. I know that I would have had the vet out every second day when I first got my pony only for them.

 

[PolarSkye]

I suppose that before horses used to be seen more as 'working animals' whereas now they are pets? Don't get me wrong, I absoloutely adore my lads and I do treat them like pets. But maybe all the extra things (rugs, too much feed, supplements etc.) could be bad for them...just a thought?

And the flip side of that is horses nowadays stay sounder and in work for longer because of the modern management techniques. Extra help for joints, gut function, respiration, etc. can only be good things in the right hands and administered the right way, right? Same with rugs . . . poor doers/veterans, etc. can benefit from being kept warm and dry in the worst of the weather, particularly if they are clipped because they are in full work.

By way of example, I bandage my horse's hind legs most nights because if I don't do it semi regularly, they fill . . . vet says it's nothing to worry about . . . I just figure he's getting on a little and his circulation isn't what it was and that while he's standing in, he could do with a little extra support. Is it appropriate management or "babying" . . . ?

P