Are men better riders?

[Booboos]

Said She with a Doctorate!! I do take your point though, even though we weren't discussing values. Success is measured in wealth or acclaim or host of other rather shallow attributes. So often the truly wonderful people are only ever known to a very few, and even amongst those, they aren't always seen for what they really are.

Alec.

It's not my view though, it is 'a possible view'! (third wave feminism actually).

We are discussing 'better' which is an evaluative term, so we are discussing values. If one asks is X better than Y the question only makes sense against a standard of goodness. If the standard is conceived in characteristically X terms, then Xs will have a distinctive advantage and will turn out to be better than Ys.

So, here's a silly example: are men or women better at breastfeeding? we've kind of loaded the dice already. The suggestion was that 'better' in the OP's question may have been interpreted in relation to a standard that favours a male approach to the world. So the standard may be 'more successful in competition, makes more money from horses', whereas women may not be aiming at these goals in the first place. If the standard was 'more concerned with welfare, more successful bond with a horse', women would meet the standard more often (these are just examples, I don't actually agree with them...or the underlying theory!).

 

[YorksG]

Better, or merely achieve what society sees as succesful, the two things are not necessarily the same.
Agree with the stats from the Olympics. Men actually only do better than women in show jumping and racing. Whether men ride more competitively rather than better, is perhaps the point. Do men ride with the same amount of 'feel'? Do men give up riding if they do not perceive themselves to be better than others, particularly women?

 

[Caol Ila]

One could argue that part of the way masculinity is socially constructed in this culture encourages men to be competitive and goal driven, whereas part of way in which femininity is constructed encourages women to be nurturing and relationship-oriented. Therefore girls and women who get into horses are socially conditioned to pursue a bond with the animal in a way men aren't.

 

[Mike007]

whereas part of way in which femininity is constructed encourages women to be nurturing and relationship-oriented. Therefore girls and women who get into horses are socially conditioned to pursue a bond with the animal in a way men aren't.

This is exactly why men are so often better riders. Because we dont treat a horse as if it were a child substitute. They are horses and deserve to be treated like horses.

 

[alainax]

One could argue that part of the way masculinity is socially constructed in this culture encourages men to be competitive and goal driven, whereas part of way in which femininity is constructed encourages women to be nurturing and relationship-oriented. Therefore girls and women who get into horses are socially conditioned to pursue a bond with the animal in a way men aren't.

Took the words right out of my mouth!

I was about to say....

I think its more of a competitive thing.

Ive known some good male riders, and some very very poor ones ( who ironically think they are awesome ).

it could be argued that when males are riding, their goal may not be the same as that of a woman. That many males will strive to compete against others and win. Where as some woman may find more fulfillment in differernt aspects of horse riding.


The fact that there is maybe more males in top end competition, simply means... there are more men in top end competition

ofc that is generilising, as we have many very competitve females too, and im sure some highly un-competitive males

 

[Caol Ila]

I cut off my post halfway through my thought, as my parents Skyped me and I couldn't multitask.

I just wanted to emphasise that when I drift into social constructivism, I am speaking of the broadest of stereotypes. As the Olympics proved, there are plenty of women at the top of competitive riding, and indeed, when I first learned to ride, I had a series of instructors who were hard-nosed horsewomen, far scarier than any horseman I encountered, and they didn't baby their horses or anyone else. But nevertheless, while there is no shortage of women with Olympic medals, there is a greater proportion of men at the top than at the bottom. That's probably a more accurate way of phrasing it which reflects the fact that there still are a lot of women at the top of the heap as well.

Perhaps a way to view it is that it is more in line with social norms for a woman to get involved with horses for the relationship/bonding aspect than it is for a man, and the whole aspect of having a horse as a pet/substitute child fits within a very feminized construct of horsekeeping, the sort of nurturing, soft, relationship-oriented way women "should" behave. Add that to the fact that little girls are conditioned from a young age to be interested in ponies in a way little boys aren't. Indeed, the latter might be discouraged, actively and passively, by their peer group and adults on the grounds that engaging in an activity viewed as "girly" will somehow decrease their masculinity.

 

[Mike007]

I dont think women are any less competetive,certainly not the riders I know. The problem is more that they do not handle the stress of competition very well. There is an extrordinary amount of bitchyness and backstabbing amongst female competitors.I have seen time after time,good female riders being put off their game by who is watching and so on. It is not that men are more competetive ,it is that men have a better "mind set" to handle this stuff.Basicly it boils down to "**** them and the horse they rode into town on!" Horses respond to confidence not skill. They are a herd animal ,if you are confident ,even if you are a lousey rider ,a horse will respond.Horses do not respond to being treated like child substitutes.

 

[Caol Ila]

One could also perhaps argue that the handful of lads who stick with what's perceived by our culture as a feminine activity, especially at its beginning stages, and succeed are the ones with that extra bit of drive and passion that you need to get really good at something. The ones who knew what they wanted and didn't give a sh ** t what anyone else thought, they were going for it. Or, as someone else said, the ones who's family is into it like the Whitakers. The sort of guy who might dip in and out of riding, or who might be your average ammie owner who never jumps over 2' or gets past Prelim dressage but who likes having a horse to brush, might have gotten put off in his childhood and teenage years by the whole feminization of riding, the stables full of women, no lads around, the teasing, etc., and gone onto some other activity.

Another theory anyway, as tenuous as everything else being bandied about.

 

[Mike007]

One could also perhaps argue that the handful of lads who stick with what's perceived by our culture as a feminine activity, especially at its beginning stages, and succeed are the ones with that extra bit of drive and passion that you need to get really good at something. The ones who knew what they wanted and didn't give a sh ** t what anyone else thought, they were going for it. Or, as someone else said, the ones who's family is into it like the Whitakers. The sort of guy who might dip in and out of riding, or who might be your average ammie owner who never jumps over 2' or gets past Prelim dressage but who likes having a horse to brush, might have gotten put off in his childhood and teenage years by the whole feminization of riding, the stables full of women, no lads around, the teasing, etc., and gone onto some other activity.

Another theory anyway, as tenuous as everything else being bandied about.

Rather a good point I thought. Fortunately my cultural heritage is of men riding horses .

 

[FfionWinnie]

I don't personally know any men who are better riders than I am. In my youth I used to chum around with a boy who had had his own pony from a young age where as I had not. He was not brave or better than me despite having better chances (own horse box and parents who wanted him to succeed on his ponies).

My friend reckons most boys will not do the daily grind ie looking after horses and to keep them keen need them presented ready to ride which I thought was quite interesting, its not the first time I've heard that.

So in my experience men are not better, I agree with the comments about most top male riders coming from a horsey privileged background and prejudice against boys in jodhpurs sorting out the wheat from the chaff early on.

 

[perfect11s]

Rather a good point I thought. Fortunately my cultural heritage is of men riding horses .

Yes and I belive there are more male riders than femail in the wider world, for instance america where there are more masculine disiplines
and horses are still extensively used as working animals.. I guess it wasn't that long ago that applied here also????

 

[Kat]

On the issue of riding schools, the one where OH and I used to ride, where my nephew now rides has plenty of boys. The owner reckons that it is 50/50 boys and girls up to about age 12, then the number of boys drops to perhaps 25%, but then amongst adult clients it is almost back up to 50% again. I think a big problem is that teenage boys face a lot of peer pressure and are likely to ditch riding in favour of football. Riding is often seen as either being for girls or kids, it is NOT helped by the amount of pink girly stuff. I think the other thing is that a significant proportion of boys like the more adreneline fueled aspects of the sport which they may not get much opportunity to do in a riding school, adding to the issue of the only boys that continue are the ones whose family are able to support them going out competing or hunting.

 

[Kat]

Just a musing but I wonder if build/body type also plays a part? In any sport the majority of those at the top share certain physical characteristics. And if you look at all the top riders, male & female, most, although not all, are a similar type of shape, more straight up & down athletic builds, than really stocky men or women with marilyn munroe figures. That's not to say there aren't any that are different builds, but, I wonder if that does give you a natural advantage/ head start? And if so, then it follows men are more likely to be that build. But, even if I am vaguely right, I'm sure its not the only factor.

And this is demonstrated by Tim Stockdale, Geoff Billington and Nick Skelton, all tall slender, long legged athletic types.......oh wait.......

Perhaps showjumpers don't count!

 

[nikCscott]

I think that a lot of the time men that ride are often from privelidged backgrounds. Backgrounds that mean they've been riding for years and have money for top horses and trainers!

Rubbish! Sorry but look at the original Whittikers, Ollie Townsend, all farming / working class background Carl Hester learnt to ride and drive a donkey on Sark before anything else.

Yes my horses are there to do a job.

Don't get me wrong I love my horses, but I don't treat them like children! I don't think you are ever going to get results from molly cuddling them like lots of women do.

You haven't seen how i treat my children!

lol no, I was just tweaking you ... it seems you can hand it out, but have problems taking it

Love it when theres some friendly ribbing in these threads!

My brother is a natural but no real interest (prefers cricket) but I would say I'm probably one of the most competitive people I know. Competed at national level as a junior but parents break-up and farming hitting a low - stifled my move up to horses. I'm hoping this horse can get me up through the levels again- fingers crossed!

 

[RCP Equestrian]

My OH rides and we run a livery yard together, he by far is a better rider than I am, tall, long legs and very strong. Me, short, no legs and a bit plump! But I do have some qualities which means together we are a pretty good team! (I can ride ponies without looking silly )

He likes to have a string of horses and has this awful ability to make them all look so darn easy! (not jealous at all ) whereas me, I'm more of a one horse wonder!

But I think we should ask the experts.....the HORSES!

 

[Kat]

theres a great study on male v female pelvis for riding by Deb Bennet
http://www.equinestudies.org/whos_b...i_scan_filename=whos_built_best_2008_pdf1.pdf

basically advantages and disadvantages to both

But isn't this is the only sport where men and women compete equally?
That's gotta be worth something. If you've ever groomed at a high level internationally you'll notice most grooms are women. So watch out when you say guys are better because behind every great guy, will be a woman telling him where his bridle is

Fascinating article thank you so much for posting.