Are modern competition horses too fat?

[Wagtail]

I'm thinking mainly dressage horses here. Looking at the worlds top dressage horses, many look as though they are carrying far too much condition to me. Also, some show jumpers too. Though event horses look pretty good conditionwise to me.

 

[windand rain]

No I dont think they are too fat I just think they have huge muscle development and as such look overweight I think they look brilliant I hate to see the hat rack ponies showjumping they look awful heads too big for bodies and totally out of proportion as it was when I was growing up it is lovely now to see well covered in proportion ponies with shiny coats jumping.
My young hghland is really fit but you cannot see her ribs she was the fastest pony round the cross country and could have done it ten times over without getting puffed she is fit well and too many eyes fat but it is mostly muscle

 

[Wagtail]

I have to say Windandrain that until a few years ago, I would have agreed with you. Now I see horses with a 'nice' covering with completely different eyes. This was my mare at her fattest, just before her first ever attack of laminitis in December 2010:

And this was her a few months before she was PTS when she lost all her weight but still suffered bouts of laminitis due to the damage already done all those years ago:

 

[magicmoose]

I've certainly seen top Dressage and SJ horses that are carrying more weight than I would like, but I don't doubt that the horses are fit for the job. I can't think of a single top event horse that is overweight, but there are hundreds of lower level event horses puffing their way round XC courses, lugging excess weight. The good thing about BE is that if the horse is really struggling, they will be stopped on course and not allowed to continue.

It's so sad that we have so many horse owners that don't know how to condition score and can't recognise a fat horse or pony. There are also lots of posts here asking about feeding where the poster says "my horse is in medium work" and then goes on to explain that they are ridden every day for an hour. That's not medium work!!! No wonder we have a nation of obese horses and ponies!

Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now.....

 

[be positive]

I have not voted as I think the word "top" is suggesting that the top horses are overweight which I think is incorrect, many competing at the lower affiliated levels are too heavy but the professionals at the top of all spheres of equestrian sport pay such attention to detail I think most of their horses are extremely fit and the results speak for themselves.

 

[Wagtail]

I have not voted as I think the word "top" is suggesting that the top horses are overweight which I think is incorrect, many competing at the lower affiliated levels are too heavy but the professionals at the top of all spheres of equestrian sport pay such attention to detail I think most of their horses are extremely fit and the results speak for themselves.

I don't doubt that the horses are very fit. But I saw a recent video clip of Valegro pulling faces and doing this cute 'nodding' trick and he just looked so fat. Many of my friends compete at or around medium level and most of their horses I would consider fat, some frighteningly so. I had a seriously good dressage rider here as a livery for a while who is sponsored by one of the UKs top feed companies and was shocked when they came to do an assessment on a new horse she had bought which looked in tip top condition and just right weightwise. They told her he needed to gain 60 kg. He was 16.1 and weighed 560 kg. You could feel his ribs but not see them.

 

[Nugget La Poneh]

Some of them are, yes. But they are clearly fit at the same time. Mares, even with the correct work should not be sporting a crest that would make a stallion blush.

And I think there are polar opposites in lower levels, you get the very fine square OTTB shapes, or the portly WB shapes. With the horse I look after, the owner has been 'advised' he is underweight, but he isn't. He has just lost his muscle tone and topline as now not in the level or type of work he was, and he's the weight he should be rather than the overweight models at the shows they go to.

 

[TarrSteps]

I'm thinking mainly dressage horses here. Looking at the worlds top dressage horses, many look as though they are carrying far too much condition to me. Also, some show jumpers too. Though event horses look pretty good conditionwise to me.

You need to take into account the job the horse is doing. GP dressage horses (for the sake of clarity, let's say in the top 200ish in the FEI rankings, not people having a crack at it with no intention of being competitive) get "opera singer" bodies because of the work they do and the way they develop. Of course some of this is dictated by innate body shape but if you stand next to a top opera singer there is no mistaking them for fat! (Interestingly, the fact that opera singers are now micced and there are efforts to "sell" opera to a younger audience, means you see more lighter "movie star weight" singers now.) Obviously event horses are going to be a completely different shape but that's because it selects for a different type and develops them in a different way. Jumpers are probably somewhere in the middle.

There might also be a small issue managing top international horses during the season beach use of travelling etc. You're not going to leave a horse on a plane or on a lorry for a day without hay in front of it! But I think this is a minor issue over all.

I do think some people look at top dressage horses and think they are fat but a GP test is a big ask and any large show will involve doing two if not three tests over a few days. No serious competitor is going to throw that away with an unfit horse.

 

[ihatework]

I'm always cautious of making definitive statements without seeing a horse in the flesh. Photos can be very deceiving.
But for certain some dressage & SJ horses can appear fatter - however they have a different body shape/lay muscle.
The photo if your mare I would class as fat - she looks wobbly/untoned to me, then later on she looks good weight wise but lacking muscle over top line.
That doesn't mean there aren't fat horses out there, there certainly are and I see many dressage horses (my own included!) in the lower and mid levels that would carry fat

 

[Wagtail]

I'm always cautious of making definitive statements without seeing a horse in the flesh. Photos can be very deceiving.
But for certain some dressage & SJ horses can appear fatter - however they have a different body shape/lay muscle.
The photo if your mare I would class as fat - she looks wobbly/untoned to me, then later on she looks good weight wise but lacking muscle over top line.
That doesn't mean there aren't fat horses out there, there certainly are and I see many dressage horses (my own included!) in the lower and mid levels that would carry fat

I agree re my mare. At that point she had been retired completely for over two years so definitely not toned. But the point I was making was that before she got the laminitis, yes, I thought she was well covered, but certainly not fat. Now I think she looks obese in that first picture.

Regarding the dressage horses, many of them are beautifully muscled over their top line, obviously. But just as many have too much covering over their ribs and belly.

 

[TarrSteps]

The body was my point. Too horses often get "barrel bodied" because of the muscle they put on their core, but really, no horse below that level of collected work is going to do that. A lot of top horses can look quite chunky in the ring but nothing like it standing still and relaxed.

I agree though, that lots of people see that shape and try to reproduce it with fat.

I have a high tolerance for "skinny" - I'm not at all bothered to see ribs on a working horse so long as the muscle development is there. Quite a lot of skinny horses are not getting the "building blocks" they need, especialy if they are on a super low starch, low fat diet but then that is true of a lot of fat horses too!

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

I don't think showjumpers carry too much weight. They have to be supple, muscular & athletic to do their job. Now if we're taking about their riders then yes some could certainly do with losing a few pounds as it would make their horse's job a little easier!

 

[windand rain]

I agree re my mare. At that point she had been retired completely for over two years so definitely not toned. But the point I was making was that before she got the laminitis, yes, I thought she was well covered, but certainly not fat. Now I think she looks obese in that first picture.

Regarding the dressage horses, many of them are beautifully muscled over their top line, obviously. But just as many have too much covering over their ribs and belly.

You see I thought your mare in the top photo was fat so you see it is a question of degree
You probably think this one is fat too

but she is as fit as a flea and you can feel her ribs if not see them she looks to me to be in super condition and can go cross country fast and furious for hours she is only young and I feel has always been fitter than most show horses although she has won a lot of showing classed too

 

[mystiandsunny]

I have every variety of fat - from a native who will put on weight during the winter (and is in a grazing muzzle already) to a TB who is still dropping it if a little cold. When competing properly (dressage), and in a good amount of work, my TB looks much more well covered and 'fatter' at a glance. She's not - she still only has a light covering over her ribs. What changes, is the muscle that she carries. That muscle goes on her stomach/back/neck/quarters, making them rounder. Her neck thickens, her quarters fill out, etc - things you'd also see if she was getting fat. But she's not - it's muscle.

 

[weebarney]

I don't think showjumpers carry too much weight. They have to be supple, muscular & athletic to do their job. Now if we're taking about their riders then yes some could certainly do with losing a few pounds as it would make their horse's job a little easier!

I often thought that too. Surely the horse will jump better if the rider wasn't carrying so much timber?

 

[JFTDWS]

I agree Valegro looks fat. I have a suspicion that for conformational reasons he looks fatter than he is, though - i would like to have a prod and see in person, but I would probably be arrested!

I have seen some lower level pro / non pro affiliated dressage horses that scare the life out of me. Terrifyingly fat.

 

[Goldenstar]

I was having a interest chat with an FEI equine vet on this subject recently.
Some dressage horses undeniably look 'big ' in opposed to muscled to me and I would not want to jump horses that size .
And I have sometimes thought watching GP tests would the horse find it easier lighter as there's no doult doing a GP test is a test on the cardiovascular side as well as needing a great deal of muscle power .
Back to the vet , her view was that horses need work and movement and that's the key a ' big ' horse who is working hard can be in better health than those who are slimmer and are not .
There's no doult these big to my eye horses are lasting a long time and competing well into there large teens .
There is as well a difference between carrying a huge amount of muscle bulk and having fantasic balance and a bit of fat and being on your forehand having poor muscle tone not being able to use the back properly and some fat .
Managing horses is always an exercise in managing conflicting things if a stabled travelling a lot dressage horse carrys a bit of gut because it is getting a lot of forage that's certainly less of an issue than if it's an event horse .

 

[chestnut cob]

I can't say as I ever look at the "top" horses and think they look too fat. I sometimes look at some of the top level DR horses and wonder if it is fat, or just huge muscle development. I think it is probably the latter, as horses like Valegro wouldn't be winning at that level if they were fat and unfit. The work those horses are doing to get to that level and stay there isn't just pootling round the arena for 30 mins a day barely getting out of puff, like more leisure horses. Their flat schooling will be a serious workout. I suppose you would have to equate their muscle development to that of a human body builder really, no?

I know I like to see a fit, well muscled but trim horse so the DR horses are always on the heavier side of what I prefer, but I think that's personal taste rather than anything else. I can't say as I've ever looked at a SJer and thought they looked fat, and there's no point even answering the point for top level eventers. It's hard enough getting a horse fit for low level eventing - there's no way a £ or 4* eventer would be carrying excess fat.

Low level is a different story... I was shocked at the fat ponies and horses I saw at a local UA SJ show two weeks ago. Seriously fat, looking like they'd been abandoned on a dairy farm for 12 months. Enormous crests (not stallions), huge bellies, wobbly bums. And being expected to work. I know they're only jumping 90cm but why would you let your horse get that fat and unfit?

 

[ester]

I somewhat agree with tarrsteps re different muscling for different jobs, I also suspect that conformationally some look more rotund than others (and some times it might be the sort of confo that makes them good at what they do too ie short back and well sprung ribs is always going to be inclined to look a little on the round side but not actually fat (I have one of them - no valegro though!)

 

[Goldenstar]

The eye does deceive as well my TB can be quite fat and 'look' fine as soon as fatty takes a break and gains he look very fat .

 

[ihatework]

It's interesting how different body types can visually appear under saddle and stood in the flesh.

A good friend of mine has a horse (and she may recognise herself from this description, so hope she doesn't take offense!).
The horse in question is a well bred pure dressage horse working PSG, competing Advanced.
He has always been a chunky monkey, carried a lot of muscle bulk (and whispers, possibly a bit of extra fat too).

I hadn't seen him in the flesh for a while and when my friend was telling me how he'd lost loads of weight and she was a bit worried (despite the fact he was performing better than ever under saddle) I quietly assumed he was now down to a fit correct weight rather than needing to go into panic mode.

Until I saw him in the flesh - he looked like a different horse. He looked (weight wise) like he was prepared for a 3DE. So I understood my freinds concern.

The point of my post however is that I watched this horse compete this week. From a distance, under saddle, he looked like a normal healthy dressage horse weight. I then saw a photo of him, he looked positively rotund around his barrel and looked the chunky monkey. Yet stood by him in the flesh I 100% can tell you that the photo lies (about his actual weight, not how marvellous he is!)

 

[Goldenstar]

Interesting point about photos deceiving when I saw Valegro in the flesh at the Olympics I was struck by the fact he looked leaner than the recent photos I had seen of him.

 

[ester]

photo wise stood up is also deceiving as all muscles are generally relaxed, compared to working and with abs engaged

 

[nikkimariet]

You need to take into account the job the horse is doing. GP dressage horses (for the sake of clarity, let's say in the top 200ish in the FEI rankings, not people having a crack at it with no intention of being competitive) get "opera singer" bodies because of the work they do and the way they develop. Of course some of this is dictated by innate body shape but if you stand next to a top opera singer there is no mistaking them for fat! (Interestingly, the fact that opera singers are now micced and there are efforts to "sell" opera to a younger audience, means you see more lighter "movie star weight" singers now.) Obviously event horses are going to be a completely different shape but that's because it selects for a different type and develops them in a different way. Jumpers are probably somewhere in the middle.

There might also be a small issue managing top international horses during the season beach use of travelling etc. You're not going to leave a horse on a plane or on a lorry for a day without hay in front of it! But I think this is a minor issue over all.

I do think some people look at top dressage horses and think they are fat but a GP test is a big ask and any large show will involve doing two if not three tests over a few days. No serious competitor is going to throw that away with an unfit horse.

The body was my point. Too horses often get "barrel bodied" because of the muscle they put on their core, but really, no horse below that level of collected work is going to do that. A lot of top horses can look quite chunky in the ring but nothing like it standing still and relaxed.

I agree though, that lots of people see that shape and try to reproduce it with fat.

I have a high tolerance for "skinny" - I'm not at all bothered to see ribs on a working horse so long as the muscle development is there. Quite a lot of skinny horses are not getting the "building blocks" they need, especialy if they are on a super low starch, low fat diet but then that is true of a lot of fat horses too!

photo wise stood up is also deceiving as all muscles are generally relaxed, compared to working and with abs engaged

All of this for me. You'd never expect a gymnast and an endurance runner to have the same body shape

Fig has put on a lot of weight thanks to a hefty dose of some amino acids recently. And as always, looks rounder (with a decent barrel on him) when on the move, compared to when stood up. In fact I've cut down some of his hard feed as of this morning because he doesn't need any more condition (esp given that they will be moving over to the lush summer paddocks next week!), we just need to build the muscle now.

I do like mine to be on the rounder side, and I guess that's because I view them with dressage in mind. They don't need to be sleek lean muscle for eventing, they need the chunk and the strength, and the bulk that comes with it.

I must add, at Hartpury on Weds and Thurs I was horrified by the size of some of the horses!!! There was one conversation I overheard where the owner was saying her mare had lost 20kg and looked loads better.... I would of had it in a lami paddock the way it looked on the day!!!!

 

[Quadro]

I only showjump and event, so can't really comment on dressage but most of the fat horses i encounter are accompanied by equally large riders, which might have a large part to play in it!

 

[magicmoose]

I do think that it's important to differentiate between fat and unfit. I'm sure that top horses are fit and have great muscle tone and development. That doesn't preclude them from also having more body fat than is healthy (perhaps).

The reverse is also true - lean does not equal fit!

 

[PolarSkye]

I must be the only one who doesn't see a plethora (great word that, so satisfying to say) of fat horses out and about . . . in fact, I have seen more seriously underweight horses than the other way around (and, yes, I do know how to condition score a horse).

I also agree that it's important to differentiate between "big" and "fit" . . . a fit, well-muscled horse will naturally carry more condition than one with moderate fitness.

P

 

[Goldenstar]

TBH I can't remember the last time I saw a thin horse at a competition.
Horses with incorrect muscle development yes thin no .
Lean horses of course if you go horse trails you will see lean horses and so you should .

 

[ihatework]

TBH I can't remember the last time I saw a thin horse at a competition.
Horses with incorrect muscle development yes thin no .
Lean horses of course if you go horse trails you will see lean horses and so you should .

Me either. I can't remember the last time I saw a thin/seriously underweight horse out competing.
You get the odd one running up light certainly, but by far more abundant would be those on the fatter side of good.

 

[TGM]

Me either. I can't remember the last time I saw a thin/seriously underweight horse out competing.
You get the odd one running up light certainly, but by far more abundant would be those on the fatter side of good.

Ditto this! Can't remember seeing a properly skinny horse competing for a long time, but lots of podgy ones!

I know Dengie do a condition scoring and weighing service at the Pony Club Winter Championships each year and many competitors (dressage ones in particular) were shocked to be told their horses were overweight or obese when they thought they were in perfect condition.