Are people too busy to be courteous?

As a recruitment consultant way back in the 1980's (mainly petrochemical industry but I took on the start-up and running of secretarial, manual, driving etc) I took great pride in matching the right people to the right job - way before internet applications. And yes I would follow my candidates through their interviews, tried hard to help those who might need some extra help before said interview and always gave feedback. I would hope your daughter would get the same kind of help from the various equestrian agencies others have mentioned and wish her every luck in finding that job.
 
I occasionally advertise for yard staff. Facebook messenger seems to be the only way young people contact me. Tips:

Do not make your first question 'what is the pay'. If that is your only interest in my job please go and stack shelves in a supermarket.

Find out a little about the job and express your interest in that part of the industry. ie if applying for a job in a dressage yard say you are interested to learn more about dressage.

When the employer comes back to you then you too should reply if only to say thank you for replying.

Do not repeatedly keep applying to the same job advert a few months later unless you have addresses the items brought up.

Please send your CV etc. It is not good enough to expect the employer to give you full details of the job when you have not given any info about yourself.

Remember that your Facebook messages tend to stay in the inbox forever. On the 4th occasion I have been asked about 'pay' I have been forced to refer the person back to the above messages when I have told them it will be according to age/experience only to be ghosted by said job applicant!

It is all about communication. This applies to both sides. Maybe apply than a few days later re message asking if they have had a chance to review your application. The same applies if you have done a trial day - ask for feedback. Certainly if someone is really keen that is a huge boost to their chances of making an interview and/or being offered a job.
 
Smogul said:
I am not upset, just trying to explain the employer's position. When I worked for a small building firm, on one occasion 78 of the applicants for an experienced plasterer's job had no relevant work experience or qualifications. Why on earth did they apply other than to satisfy some arbitrary target for job applications? I don't think an employer can be expected to provide feedback to them.
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Not sure you've quoted the right posts, or mixed them up as it wasn't me who put 'If an applicant has sent in something you think is rubbish would it really hurt so badly to let them at least have a bit of feedback so they can improve for another time?' in my post 🤷‍♀️

Also I used to do recruitment as part of my job in a previous life, and as I actually said in my post, it really isn't hard to set up automatic replies whether that's email, Facebook, Indeed, or any other recruitment platform. It may not be much but it's something.
 
What went wrong at the yard she did the trial day for?

Yard work is very basic, and not always a great job to have for multiple reasons. Does she want to be a groom? It sadly is a dogs body position although you can work your way up a bit. But initially is manual labour in crappy conditions for minimum wage. If they didnt want to take her on, was there a reason given? Or was it that she didnt want to take it further?
 
Could she do another role as a stop gap such as a supermarket etc - this will then bulk her CV out a bit with on the job experience and transferable skills e.g. customer service, initiative, flexibility such as staying late if needed)

When i left college I found so many jobs I applied for (not horses) wanted experience which of course, while I had a Saturday job, id just left college, so of course didnt have!

If its a non CV based application, and she needs to write a cover letter, they will be looking to see that she meets the person specifications and job description, so is she tailoring her application to the role she is applying for each time?

Its really admirable she wants a job rather than going on benefits, id definitely suggest her applying for some wider roles, even as a stop gap. It will also expand possible answers she could give to interview questions such as "tell us a time when you had to show initiative" or "tell us a time when you had to deal with a difficult situation". Yes the answers could be outside of work, but if shes been in situations in a work environment, it exposes her to more situations she can then use, e.g. dealing with a tricky customer, using initiative etc.

How is she with programmes such as office e.g word/excel etc? A lot of companies ask for experience using these, if shes a bit rusty, may be worth her using some of her time to expand on these if needed

Maybe if she reads the job descriptions for the roles shes applying for, and see if there are any areas she perhaps needs to build her experience in (e.g. my MS office example above)

They will also be looking at what makes her stand out above the other candidates. What makes her worth shortlisting for the role above other applicants. Which is why id advise her reading the job description/person specification when writing her cover letter
 
Haven't read replies but sadly this is the state we are in when looking for employment regardless of industry. I was made redundant and spent 4.5 months unemployed and was job hunting long before that. I saw just about everything under the sun! It has been pretty standard to be ghosted in general. The new thing is to be ghosted when you've been selected in a candidate pool..which wont be that many!! I have known many who have been in their notice period and the job they were jumping to be made redundant, leaving people high and dry.

In no way is the above an excuse but it is where we are. You need to grow a thick skin and move on...if it is meant to be, trust me, it will be!!!
 
When I last changed jobs 4 years ago I applied for an engineering post at Tesco, had 2 interviews online, first with the recruiting manager and then him and his manager, followed by a 2 hour technical interview in person.
I didn’t get the job, but I only knew this as they just ghosted me, even the recruitment manager refused to send any feedback or even reply to any emails.
Luckily the job I got instead was a lot better, but still, very rude.
 
Unfortunately this is just what it’s like now. The only way forward is to have low expectations because this is pretty standard treatment. Sad, but true.
 
Interestingly many years ago, before the internet and Facebook, it was standard practice in some areas to respond to job applicants by saying ‘thank you for your application, if you haven’t heard from us in x days you have been unsuccessful’ sometimes this was beefed out a bit, sometimes not. It was also common to offer a job - frequently by phoning the successful candidate, who either accepted the post or was given until the next day to accept. It was considered very bad practice to ask for longer, usually because you were hoping for a better offer. You learn a lot by speaking directly to someone.
More recently in some organisations a ‘coding’ system was introduced on the grounds of fairness and impartiality with the aim of matching written skills to a job description, so Jo Bloggs became candidate xy rather than Jo and in theory the best candidate was successful. Maybe this type of system was the start of the current communication downfall. In my experience communication is key and it needs to be both ways.
 
Ceifer said:
I know people on here are quick to refer people into racing college/industry but it really isn’t for everybody. Wasn’t there a member on here recently who was encouraged to go and had a miserable time? If you want to ride you need to be fit and tough to do the job. I would recommend doing some work experience at a race yard before committing to go to college.

There are a couple of equine career websites/agencies she could register with.
Career grooms
Caroline Carter Recruitment Ltd.
Equine careers

She also might have to face facts that living/working away might be a reality.
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I’m not sure if she’s registered with these but I’ll speak to her. That’s the problem, she wants to stay in the same area. 😞
 
nagblagger said:
I would hand deliver the applications. When I was recruiting the ones that came for an informal visit, or took time to discuss the job, always got short listed as they made the extra effort in wanting to work in our team.
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I’ll tell her this too. She’s quite shy around new people, she needs to push herself out of her comfort zone to hand deliver applications, another of life’s learning goals 😊
 
Bonnie Allie said:
I feel for your daughter. I mentor a number of young graduates seeking their first roles and there are some patterns that they are often not aware of. Usually their applications and resumes need a lot of work.

How concise and relevant is her resume to the roles she is applying for? Every application needs to be tailored. One standard resume won’t do it.

Get rid of fluff words. Passionate, excited, delighted, hard working, committed are all over used and can’t be quantified.

Don’t use ChatGPT to write. Use it for structure but write your own content. If I see “energetic and dedicated” one more time…………..

The equine services industry is not known for professionalism, but agree how hard is it to send an email or a quick call?
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She’s definitely amending her CV to specific places/jobs. She wrote the content herself, it’s actually pretty good!
 
Goldie's mum said:
Please take it as read that there's no excuse for those who didn't reply or who promised work then didn't deliver, I understand how undermining that must be for your daughter but I want to advise your daughter about what happens next from the point of view of a small business that recruits youngsters for fairly manual, outdoor jobs.

We don't have a HR dept or a job role that includes interviewing, (this would be true of most businesses of the type your daughter is applying to). Recruitment is done in the evenings or by someone taking time out from what they regard as their real job.
It's worrying because you don't want to make a bad choice & you have no training & not a lot of experience in it.
The worst possible outcome is that you select someone & then they don't stay & you have to do it all again.
We get a shocking number of "keen, energetic and dedicated, good team players" who don't bother to turn up for interview, who decide it's not for them after being offered the job, or who potter about watching us work for a day or two then stop turning up.
(Edit - Not being negative about all young people, far from it, we get some absolute gems too. I just mean it's difficult to tell the difference in the short time you have to look through applications, so that colours what you look for- see below.)

My advice would be -
1) Consider taking a job, any job at all anywhere, as long as the hours are short enough that you can look for the job you want outside your working hours. That way you would have proof that you know what work actually means and will turn up every morning, on time and sober (not a given in our experience).
2) Take your CV round to your preferred places even if they are not recruiting. Many of them will bear you in mind for future vacancies if they have met you & got along well. Remember to mention you have even taken the job at [MacDonalds etc] because you don't want to sign on but would be available at a week's notice.
3) As has been mentioned, definitely go in person with your application when replying to adverts. There are so many replies from impossible applicants who just pressed a few buttons because it's so easy to do.
4) If you get another "maybe" answer, don't sit back & wait to see if they contact you, get back in touch after a couple of days & remind them.
5) Get in touch with your college, they will be interested in your situation & may have contacts who can help.

Also are there any extra skills that would make you more useful to an employer that you could be working on while you wait, can you drive for example?

Good luck.
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Thank you for your detailed advice, she will have to look elsewhere out of the industry if only to help with her confidence.
 
Peglo said:
When I was made redundant after Covid I got a small cleaning job that payed similar to signing up. It meant that even if I got a full time job I wouldn’t have to pack it in straight away and I just felt better working for my money.

Is there no small part time jobs she could apply for to tie her over until a job she wants to do comes up? Cafe work, cleaning etc. that would get her out in the community and hopefully make some acquaintances that might help get her a full time job.

Best of luck to your daughter. I hope that all her disappointment turns into an opening for the perfect job.
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Thank you ☺️ She going to have to look at alternatives. I know there’s something out there for her but it’s soul destroying for her at this time.
 
gallopingby said:
Interestingly many years ago, before the internet and Facebook, it was standard practice in some areas to respond to job applicants by saying ‘thank you for your application, if you haven’t heard from us in x days you have been unsuccessful’ sometimes this was beefed out a bit, sometimes not. It was also common to offer a job - frequently by phoning the successful candidate, who either accepted the post or was given until the next day to accept. It was considered very bad practice to ask for longer, usually because you were hoping for a better offer. You learn a lot by speaking directly to someone.
More recently in some organisations a ‘coding’ system was introduced on the grounds of fairness and impartiality with the aim of matching written skills to a job description, so Jo Bloggs became candidate xy rather than Jo and in theory the best candidate was successful. Maybe this type of system was the start of the current communication downfall. In my experience communication is key and it needs to be both ways.
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I remember this standard practice! I was 45 when i left the uk, 58 now and i remember being kept updated on job applications and being offered a position over the phone, that’s why I’m so disappointed in how people who are genuinely and actively seeking employment are treated 😞
 
Brownie in Bahrain said:
Thank you ☺️ She going to have to look at alternatives. I know there’s something out there for her but it’s soul destroying for her at this time.
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My child was in the same position at your daughter's age, so found a career relevant degree course to do, graduated last year and is in exactly the same situation again now ( but with a student loan ). Is now working in a pub, and even found that harder to get than expected as 18 year olds are much cheaper to employ than 22 year olds. Is also reluctant to sign on, as you have to apply for totally unsuitable jobs, and is feeling depressed,isolated and demoralised. Did enjoy uni, but moving back home after 3 years to find friends have all moved away/ got married etc has been tough. I feel so sorry for young people. It really doesn't seem to be a lot of fun.
 
In order to receive Universal Credit, you are supposed to apply for any job you can do. Technically, we can apply a period where you can look for specific jobs but after 6 weeks , work coaches will be encouraging you to look wider. Surely any job is better than nothing? This is a generalisation, so don’t think I make everyone apply for everything!! We work with individuals and want the best for them, especially young keen people.
Every minimum wage role that you hate shows that you can get up and appear at work, do a job and return when expected ! Is that so unreasonable?
Most employers are rubbish at getting back unfortunately
 
3OldPonies said:
The job market is a bloody nightmare, for everyone. I really do feel for your daughter. Since the advent of AI where CVS get run through a matching system before anyone even reads them you can find yourself 'on the scrap pile' and being ignored through not fault of your own other than not using the words the system wants to match. If you've no real experience of the field you want to get into it's even worse. Too much is automated these days with recruitment and some employers even advertise roles that don't even exist and don't update or take down their ads when a position has been filled. Recruitment agencies are the pits too, all over you when they're trying to push you into something and the minute you get dropped for whatever reason (no one gives feedback, believe me I've tried until I'm blue in the face to get it) they don't even take your calls or answer emails. If you should be disabled or older, no matter how experienced you might be then you get no help from anyone - again been there and found out the hard way. There are people up and down the country trying to get employment and being treated like 💩it's not just your daughter.

Sorry everyone that turned into a rant, it just happens to be a subject that winds me up!
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Completely agree with this.
 
rabatsa said:
When I was job hunting in the '80's and '90's I would always include a stamped and addressed envelope with my application. I could ill afford the stamps. It was surprising the number of companies that did not send me a reply even then.
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I remember doing the same! How times have changed..
 
rextherobber said:
My child was in the same position at your daughter's age, so found a career relevant degree course to do, graduated last year and is in exactly the same situation again now ( but with a student loan ). Is now working in a pub, and even found that harder to get than expected as 18 year olds are much cheaper to employ than 22 year olds. Is also reluctant to sign on, as you have to apply for totally unsuitable jobs, and is feeling depressed,isolated and demoralised. Did enjoy uni, but moving back home after 3 years to find friends have all moved away/ got married etc has been tough. I feel so sorry for young people. It really doesn't seem to be a lot of fun.
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That breaks my heart, they just want to work. She will be looking at alternatives so we will see how that works for her.
 
suebou said:
In order to receive Universal Credit, you are supposed to apply for any job you can do. Technically, we can apply a period where you can look for specific jobs but after 6 weeks , work coaches will be encouraging you to look wider. Surely any job is better than nothing? This is a generalisation, so don’t think I make everyone apply for everything!! We work with individuals and want the best for them, especially young keen people.
Every minimum wage role that you hate shows that you can get up and appear at work, do a job and return when expected ! Is that so unreasonable?
Most employers are rubbish at getting back unfortunately
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She’s definitely keen to work. I agree any job is better than no job. She’s not on any benefits at this time and she’s been looking for work since beginning of July. I’m encouraging her to 'sign on' but she’s no clue how to go about it & really doesn’t want to. I know she’ll then be able to access help to find employment. Can you advise how she can access the services of a work coach?
 
Kirstineridesagain said:
Probably a bit different but if she can go abroad I know many young people go to Iceland and work on horse farms and trekking centres. She would have to be interested in riding Icelandic horses, of course.
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Unfortunately she’s adamant she’s staying in West Yorkshire 😞. I keep sending her positions at showjumping yards I’m Europe but she’s not interested..
 
Brownie in Bahrain said:
She’s definitely keen to work. I agree any job is better than no job. She’s not on any benefits at this time and she’s been looking for work since beginning of July. I’m encouraging her to 'sign on' but she’s no clue how to go about it & really doesn’t want to. I know she’ll then be able to access help to find employment. Can you advise how she can access the services of a work coach?
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Hi, if she Googles Apply for universal credit, she’ll go to the .gov website. It’s really straightforward, she’ll then get an appointment to go into a Jobcentre to prove ID, passport, driving licence, bank card etc. She’ll then get a First Commitment appointment where she meets a work coach(maybe a specialist youth WC) depending how big/where JC is. They’ll discuss her situation, what’s reasonable, what she needs to do etc etc. From there, she’ll have a least fortnightly appointments, usually face to face, maybe phone or video, where she’ll get to talk about applications/cv, training, interviews, anything job related tbh.
She will be expected to attend appointments or notify wc in advance with the reason and partake fully in her job search.
Please encourage her to apply, it’s not just the money (not much tbh!) but her WC will focus on helping her move forward.
 
suebou said:
Hi, if she Googles Apply for universal credit, she’ll go to the .gov website. It’s really straightforward, she’ll then get an appointment to go into a Jobcentre to prove ID, passport, driving licence, bank card etc. She’ll then get a First Commitment appointment where she meets a work coach(maybe a specialist youth WC) depending how big/where JC is. They’ll discuss her situation, what’s reasonable, what she needs to do etc etc. From there, she’ll have a least fortnightly appointments, usually face to face, maybe phone or video, where she’ll get to talk about applications/cv, training, interviews, anything job related tbh.
She will be expected to attend appointments or notify wc in advance with the reason and partake fully in her job search.
Please encourage her to apply, it’s not just the money (not much tbh!) but her WC will focus on helping her move forward.
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Thank you Suebou. She may read this and realise it’s not just about receiving money.. Fingers crossed 🤞🏻
 
Kirstineridesagain said:
Probably a bit different but if she can go abroad I know many young people go to Iceland and work on horse farms and trekking centres. She would have to be interested in riding Icelandic horses, of course.
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Yes that's true, there do seem to be regular requests from trekking centres in Iceland for seasonal staff. A couple of seasons of that and you would definitely have plenty of experience!

I completely understand that she'd like to stay where she is but decent horsey jobs are so hard to get, she might need to change her mindset and set aside a couple of years to take a completely different approach. Then with some experience, it'll be easier to find good work in the area she really wants to be in.
 
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