Are people too inexperienced before they buy........

Equilibrium Ireland said:
I did NOT have my own pony so I worked at riding stables all day when not in school for free rides. Health and safety was non existent really. You got hurt you learned. Lots of times we were unsupervised. We had lessons too of course but we did lots of on our own trial and error too. There were no bad ponies and horses. There were horses that were a challenge. To ride effectively you had to become a better rider.
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Sounds exactly like my experience of a riding school as a child/teen. I 'worked' up there in all my spare time to be able to ride on a Sunday. The ponies were waifs and strays that the owner had taken in, some of them bought from auctions - so not your typical well schooled riding school types. The other highlight was if you were asked to ride one of the riding school ponies back, bareback, to the field they were kept in. This was over half an hour away from the yard. I remember riding and leading, and cantering across fields like this.

Yes people fell off, but we learnt, not just about horses but about life and common sense!
 
whatever the experience of the buyer, if they are very clear to a dealer what level of riding ability they have and if they are a slightly nervous rider then that dealer is responsible if they sell them a horse that turns out to be a bucking, fearful, green horse. using the excuse that you as the new owner have caused this is not acceptable (the dealer using this excuse not you guys on here). Especially when it happens on mounting for no other reason than the horse was not the steady, suitable for a nervous novice (dealers words)it was sold as. if the buyer pays a bigger price for that assurity then they should get it. I'm not talking settling in or testing you out issues that I would expect (had those with my three and was expecting them again). other wise the buyer may have well as paid the going rate for that type of horse and dealt with any issues that may occur. rant about a dealer over:mad::D
 
Haha, we did the bareback to fields kept in as well. We also went caroling during Christmas time through neighbourhoods bare back. I remember it being so cold and we were out there for about 6 hours. I remember stopping at my house and my mom was like, too cold to be out here. I'll pick you up later honey. No concern I might get frostbite or anything! I'm pretty sure that day paved the way for me never being warm in slightly cold and below ever again!

Terri
 
One problem is that RSs are very limited these days in what they can allow customers to do.
In my teens I regularly rode one horse bareback along the road to a field in the next village and led a second, after my weekly lesson. We were expected to tack/untack as a matter of course, we rode in a school, on grass, under trees, on tracks, on the road. If the earth school was too muddy/frozen we went for a hack - no negotiation, the RI's word was law. She would have been very scathing if she saw someone allowing horses to 'talk' over stable doors and other such misdemeanours which I see owners allowing their ponies to do nowadays.
The summer courses which were run during school holidays always included stable management, jumping lessons were just as likely to be without reins or stirrups and I don't think I can remember one lesson when we were not expected to do some work without stirrups.
I was considered to be one of the best riders by the time I left the RS but the horse sis and I were bought to share was a VERY easy ride & drive cob gelding who proceeded to teach us 'George-keeping'. He had been trained by a nagsman and worked hard for his living before he came to us for an easier life, so he knew what he and we were supposed to do. And a good job too - we still had a few 'moments'!

The other thing is that Dad, who bought George for us, took his responsibility for us and the horse seriously, rather than buying us something we could barely control and then leaving us to it - as I see many parents doing, often when their children are much younger than we were at the time.
 
People always rant about dealers but I think that some blame does lie with the buyer, we forget that the buyer is an adult, or is accompanied by one, and therefore should be capable of making their own decisions.

If a buyer is not experienced enough themselves to tell whether a horse is suitable then they should bring a more experienced friend with them who can, whilst I know that dealers can be manipulative and shady let's not forget that the buyer should also have some of their own measures in place too. A lot of buyers get sucked in too quickly, and instead need to be a bit more realistic when buying a horse.

Admittedly when was bought my first pony at 13 neither me or my Grandad had a clue what we were doing, despite me helping out at the local RS. Luckily for us the yard we moved on to was tiny and run by an iron-fisted YO who was in everybody's business, she was a prolific hunter and side saddle rider. Looking back it's mad, she used to be in charge of the feeds for our horses and would ration their hay and feed intake as it suited her!
However, she was exceptionally knowledgeable and I learnt so much from her. She wasn't afraid to tell you if you weren't doing something right! :D

I then moved yards and began to ride the other liveries horses, as well as the YO's showjumpers and hunters so I got a really good feel for riding different horses. Equilibrium Ireland is right, there was no health or safety for me at all but that's how you learnt. I'm a big believer in learning the hard way, because after that you don't make the same mistake twice! :p
 
Another thing that I forgot to mention is that you'd be surprised how many buyers are stubborn about their ability, I am friends with and was stabled on the yard of a dealer and so many buyers would insist that they could ride and manage this horse despite being told that it was too much for them.

Pride eh? :rolleyes:
 
Pearlsasinger said:
One problem is that RSs are very limited these days in what they can allow customers to do.
In my teens I regularly rode one horse bareback along the road to a field in the next village and led a second, after my weekly lesson. We were expected to tack/untack as a matter of course, we rode in a school, on grass, under trees, on tracks, on the road. If the earth school was too muddy/frozen we went for a hack - no negotiation, the RI's word was law. She would have been very scathing if she saw someone allowing horses to 'talk' over stable doors and other such misdemeanours which I see owners allowing their ponies to do nowadays.
The summer courses which were run during school holidays always included stable management, jumping lessons were just as likely to be without reins or stirrups and I don't think I can remember one lesson when we were not expected to do some work without stirrups.
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That reminds me so much of my RS.
Such a shame that YO left, I miss her and her old-school style :(
 
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I think you have hit the nail on the head. People buying a young horse , so it can LAST them a longer time, perhaps like a newer car. If they have help ie on a livery yard and are prepared for a few knocks and falls then they can achieve a good horse and WORK it, I dont mean into the ground but give the horse an education with experienced helper.

Personally I think people with money fancy themselves as a status symbol etc so acquire a horse and some people dont realise how unscrupulous horse folk can be and have sold utterly inappropriate horses to buyers for a quick buck.

I know this is a generalisation plus people dont realise the hours that are put into a good horse to produce it to that level. Plenty of ruined horses around which shouldnt have been ruined, but they are.
 
A lady my sister and I knew had only been riding for a year but still was that well balanced.


She asked us to come out and try some horses with her but had her heart set on one because 'she liked his name!' Well she didn't say to us that she had never hacked out before, owner took her on a hack with owners other horse on a busy road and round a feild, she told owner she would be having regular lessons and having horse schooled a few times a week as owner was worried about selling to her but she said all the right things........fast forward a few months and was lady is trying to make out owner had sold her a unsuitable horse after he had chucked her off a few times and just was being a twit. It took a 16 year old to re school and help her sell it on......safe to say there was nothing wrong with the horse.
 
I was way too inexperienced when I got my first horse, and I didn't even know what I didn't know (iyswim). Fortunately I was on a livery yard with a bunch of experienced and helpful people who helped me out and diplomatically set me on the right path. I guess new horse owners need support, but they also need to understand that they will have a lot to learn and find someone they trust to put them right.
 
I think most people on here would have considered me too inexperienced when I bought my horse!

I had ridden at riding schools for about 13 years (with a couple of breaks of 18 months - 2 years for uni/training) but I had only been back having lessons for about 6 months when I bought.

I used to "help" at a riding school as a teenager (including riding bareback to the fields!), I also helped out at a small welsh pony stud for a summer. I was lucky in that the riding school I went to during my a-level years ran an NVQ course in horsecare and stable management (riding was a component). I didn't end up completing the qualification as the coursework was too much on top of my a-levels but I did 6 hours per week (including 2 hours riding) for 2 years, learning to tack up, groom, muck out, lunge, load, plait, understand basic veterinary issues, nutrition, etc.

I now own an 8yo throroughbred mare without ever having loaned or shared. I'm on a livery yard/riding school and I still have a 1/2 hour private lesson every week as well as joining one or two group lessons. I ask people if I am not sure about anything and I talk to my farrier, dentist, vet, saddle-fitter and osteopath whenever I feel the need to. I am on assisted livery (morning muckouts!) but obviously have to go up everyday and twice a day at weekends. My job is fulltime+ and quite stressful so it is hard sometimes, and occasionally I have to ask another livery to help out but I have had my mare for nearly 6 months now and wouldn't change anything. She's can be a bit tricky but we are getting there and I'm sure the summer will be easier!

So I suppose the point of this long rambling essay is that basic experience along with a willingness to ask and learn is all that is needed. I don't think you have to be an expert, provided that you understand that you are not - that's how I approach it anyway. I'm probably not a good enough rider for my mare, but I will get there because I want to improve and I am willing to put the work in.
 
I think one major issue is lack of support. Years ago a first time owner was more likely to have experienced back up, whether that be parents, pc, rs, good yard etc. Now, there's loads of cheap diy yards with no active manager. Fab for cheapskates like me, for a novice first time owner, no. I can think of any number of cheap diy set ups where the number of liveries who I'd class as knowledgeable are vastly outnumbered by those who really need help. Years ago I think it was the other way round. And yes, people have always bought animals without being equipped, but the increase in disposable income combined with the availability of cheap horse & cheap diy means more people can buy.
As for rs, I agree with everyone re h&s. Another issue I think is lowering standards in some. The most popular rs to me is the cheapest & the crappest. There advanced riders are worse than beginners, because at least beginners haven't learnt the habit of yank, hit, smack, & don't have an over inflated opinion of their prowess. And if they then buy horses or kids ponies, stick them on farm diy with no budget for help, they end up massively overhorsed & in a mess. And because people are fluffier now, the better rs doesn't get as many pupils.
 
i agree with the comment above that horses can be too cheap, people look at a £500 horse and think - well that's only 20 lessons at £25 an hour so I'll save money!

Then the second critical mistake is too cheap a livery, it's absolutely fine to be total inexpereinced in horse care/mgmt and even riding IF you keep them on full livery and the YO is happy to give lessons/ ad hoc help as they walk past (AND you're willing to accept you know nothing and listen to their advice).
Everyone has to start somewhere and having your own is a great way to learn - IF you have back up available constantly.

People don't realise that good full livery should be £100/£150 a week, plus £40 for a couple of lessons a week plus extras (kit, shoes, insurance etc.)

Of course it's possible to keep a horse on DIY for very little - but if your not experienced this IMHO leads to disaster. great after a few years when you know the ropes.
 
Horse management is MUCH different now than what I grew up with. I could manage a horse the way I was taught growing up, but now by the time I'm ready to go out and buy a horse here, I fear I will not know nearly enough. I don't understand all of the feeds and supplements as, apart from the winter months, ours were fed exclusively on grass and hay. Now I talk to people who reel off lists of different supplements etc that their horse simply MUST have. I know horse management, given that we were not allowed to ride if we did not take proper care of our horses and gear, and I know about common ailments. I spent years riding anything and everything, and until I came to England, I was always expected to care for the horse myself. I made sure it was fed and watered, groomed, took care of the tack, checked for any signs of lameness or trouble... here, when I go for lessons the horse is already tacked up ready to go, and I don't think I've learned much of anything new as far as horse care goes. In some ways, I know that if I bought a horse and cared for it in the way that I was taught as a kid, I would do just fine, but with all of the new things out there to take into consideration and worry about (mostly illness and food related, as these things seem to change all the time) I'm not sure how well I would do by current standards. Everything I know was learned via hands on experience. There were no riding schools where I grew up. We got on, we fell off, we got BACK on and we learned through the experience of our elders. Things change in relatively short spaces of time... I'm only going to be 34 this year, but the things I learned when I was ten seem obsolete now, and it makes me wonder when it all became so complicated. Having the horses back home was never easy, but they were healthy, fit and happy without all of the extra that is involved now. It feels like it is very hard to be experienced enough in someone else's opinion to buy a horse when everything you THINK you know about horses changes in the blink of an eye these days.
 
stormox said:
I'm beginning to wonder if people are buying horses before theyv had enough experience, both riding and handling.
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^^^this! God yes!!! I know so many people who have come onto our livery yard and not had a clue what is going on. One woman now thinks she knows it all and has her own "stud" with an Arab stallion and Arab mares. (don't get me started on indiscriminate breeding :mad: ) She can't even ride!!!!

It really gets my grind that people consistently buy inappropriate horses just because they look pretty and they think having bigger smarter horse makes them a better rider and have higher status!!! Urrrr, no!

I was 11 before I had my first loan pony and I had him on the owners livery hard with constant support and had been riding since age of 4 and done numerous pony days!

Agreeing with some other people it does seem very cheap to buy a pony no especially with the market as it is. I've noticed a lot of inexperienced end up buying young horses so they can "learn together" :eek:

I could go on but I won't.... For now :)
 
Oh we also had a woman who thought she could teach her horses to wee and poo in a bucket so she didn't have to much out!!
 
I bought a horse several months ago who's abilities were (and still are) far, far higher than mine, but this is what I wanted as I knew he would teach me a lot, both on the ground and being ridden. I am also a fairly "inexperienced" owner but I ALWAYS ask someone who's more experienced than me whenever I was/am unsure as its not fair on the long-suffering man to have such a ditzy mum :D (note: I'm not that bad, but HE probably thinks so!)
I don't think it's being inexperienced thats the problem - its being inexperienced and too damn stubborn/prideful to ask when you need help or are unsure. I've met many people who are even less experienced that I am, but because they've read about it in a magazine or on the internet believe they know it all.
 
Totally agree, EquilibriumIreland. I did everything I could when I was young just to be involved with horses. Age 10 -would cycle 7 miles to a friends house coz she had her own pony. Age 12- started helping out at a local dealers. I can hear him shouting now- make him go.... make him stand..... dont let him buck you off.... shorten them reins......
If a pony bucked - pull his head up... kick him on...
If it reared - dont pull him over backwards....... hang on to the neck...
If it ran off - turn him...... turn him into that wall...
If it was messing and fidgeting around- dont hang on his mouth....soothe him...
NOWADAYS, itd more likely be get off, get his teeth/back checked, get a new saddle/bit/noseband....... sell him hes no good/dangerous.
And I dont remember ANY of the naughty ones not coming round eventually, and they all ended up good ponies.
Eventually got my own horse age 20!
 
Magnetic Sparrow unfortunately she is no longer at our yard anymore. This was years ago. :D and well horses do do it sometimes in their water bucket.

Kitty B I am sorry to have ruined things for you! Haha

Was made worse by the fact she put shavings in the bucket. I mean what would be the point :confused:
 
BethanT said:
Magnetic Sparrow unfortunately she is no longer at our yard anymore. This was years ago. :D and well horses do do it sometimes in their water bucket.

Kitty B I am sorry to have ruined things for you! Haha

Was made worse by the fact she put shavings in the bucket. I mean what would be the point :confused:
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Mine always wee's on fresh straw bed and I do try and catch it in a bucket, a handful of straw in the bottom stops it splashing back at him and it's one less wee to muck out - not sure what the problem is with that.

Training them to go on comand is tricky if you can't visit them for some reason and they won't wee without a comand!!
 
Polos Mum, that isn't an issue. It was the fact she used to leave them like that all night with no actual bedding at all and expect them to just do it like a cat in a litter box :/
 
Ahh I see, little mad !1 Mine did poo out of the window once - which I hoped was the start of a great new trend (happy to leave wheelbarrow under the window all night) sadly he's never done it again - so back to him doing it in the waterbucket/ hay/ everywhere !!
 
Polos Mum said:
Ahh I see, little mad !1 Mine did poo out of the window once - which I hoped was the start of a great new trend (happy to leave wheelbarrow under the window all night) sadly he's never done it again - so back to him doing it in the waterbucket/ hay/ everywhere !!
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That would have been a good one to start haha:p
 
stormox said:
Totally agree, EquilibriumIreland. I did everything I could when I was young just to be involved with horses. Age 10 -would cycle 7 miles to a friends house coz she had her own pony. Age 12- started helping out at a local dealers. I can hear him shouting now- make him go.... make him stand..... dont let him buck you off.... shorten them reins......
If a pony bucked - pull his head up... kick him on...
If it reared - dont pull him over backwards....... hang on to the neck...
If it ran off - turn him...... turn him into that wall...
If it was messing and fidgeting around- dont hang on his mouth....soothe him...
NOWADAYS, itd more likely be get off, get his teeth/back checked, get a new saddle/bit/noseband....... sell him hes no good/dangerous.
And I dont remember ANY of the naughty ones not coming round eventually, and they all ended up good ponies.
Eventually got my own horse age 20!
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Yes agree. I dont remember the yard I went to having such terrible horses, we had ones with Character ie might throw the odd buck, or charged you.They were more unusual than the norm(2/20 horses). Most were worked and worked and could be led off another horse, my first canter was being led along a bridleway..and arghh sTTTTTTOOPPP. But eventually got the hang of it. When I took my kids to a riding school I was, "can they go on a hack" you think I had said a dirty word...Health and safety. A mother did a no win no fee to sue the ridng school as she hadnt realised it was a dangerous sport. That was in H&H. Sad days ahead so no wonder How are they meant to muck out, learn etc. It was awful the RS was superb. That family nearly ruined it for everyone else.
 
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