Are sarcoids contagious?

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Keenjean

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As above, can someone explain to me whether they are and how they'd be caught by a horse? Just read it and it's something I've never heard before.
 
I just read that in he other thread too, never heard of it before but many people were adament it was true.
To me its kind of liking saying tumours in people are contagious which is ridiculous but sometimes certain things can cause people in an area to get a certain type of tumour.

But then again I know nothing about sarcoids, I know one horse on the yard has them and none of the other horses have caught it yet and shes been there 6 years.
 
Some sarcoids are caused by the papilloma virus, which is the virus which causes warts.

I think that may be what causes the confusion. Warts can develop into sarcoids. It is not necessarily the sarcoids which are catching, rather the warts which MAY develop into the sarcoids given any predisposing factors.
 
How would they catch the papilloma virus? I'm just interested, we have a mare on the yard with chronic sarcoids but there has never been any mention of the risk of catching them and I'd never heard it was possible before, I thought it was genetic. Is it basically a bit like catching warts that then may mutate into sarcoids?
 
I was told by one of the country's foremost professors that flys carry the virus between horses a fly gets onto a raw sarcoid then onto a wound on another horse that's how they get about.
They also showed me some turely awful pictures of a horse where the virus had got into a large wound causing a terrifying sarcoid the horse in those pictures had to be PTS they where impressing upon me the importance of vigilance around horses with sarcoids.
 
Ok Im getting a bit confused now, this is all a learning curve for me so excuse my stupidity

But isnt the reason people dont like sarcoids is because they cause cancer but how can warts turn into cancer?

Or is it just the warts start spreading and kind of take over the horse?
And why havent they got a cure for horse warts when they can get rid of human warts even though I am aware the virus stays its just the outbreak is gone
 
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well iv got 1 horse with them...had lots of horses stabled and turned out near/with him... they don't have them..my personal opinion they aren't contagious and iv never heard of a livery yard refusing someone because of this!

:)
 
Right so my next q now is how would you prevent them spreading? Do you need to permanently treat the horse like it has an infectious condition (I.e in the way you would if it had ringworm) and wash hands after touching, be careful not to brush clothes again site of sarcoids etc? Would a barrier cream really prevent the spread of it by flies etc? I also don't understand how cancer is contagious but that's a mind boggling subject for another thread.
 
Also, is it just one type that's contagious I.e flat ones or maybe just when they are raw or burst out the sack?
 
They all have to potential be contagious when raw , I should have also said they can spread from cattle to horses as well as horse to horse .
 
Keenjean said:
Right so my next q now is how would you prevent them spreading? Do you need to permanently treat the horse like it has an infectious condition (I.e in the way you would if it had ringworm) and wash hands after touching, be careful not to brush clothes again site of sarcoids etc? Would a barrier cream really prevent the spread of it by flies etc? I also don't understand how cancer is contagious but that's a mind boggling subject for another thread.
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The cancer is not contiguous the virus that can trigger the cancer is , I think it's like the virus that can cause cervical cancer in women.
You should of course wash hands after handling a raw sarcoid .
Barrier creams are the best way of preventing spread so raw sarciod must be kept covered by a barrier cream summer fly cream works well as does filta bac which is my Favorite .
I have bought several with sarcoids but completely understand why people steer clear I always seek advice before buying as some types and places are not worth the risk.
My ID has nodular sarcoids he has had three lots of laser treatment he has been clear over a year now I was very careful of the raw wounds after treatment lot of fly sprays and barrier cream apply through out the day, as well keeping barrier cream on any small wounds the others had.
I also kept a separate pot of cream for him just in case.
 
No. But the HPV can be transmitted sexually which has been linked to sarcoids. There seems to be a lot not known about this disease. Much more research needed soon.
 
I attended a lecture on sarcoids and melanomas at the RVC recently.

Someone did ask the contagion question. The answer was that experiments have been done to create contagion and it has failed everytime. Advice was that all "angry" sarcoids should be protected from flies, as that could be a possible vector, but there is no proof.

I have also never heard of a yard banning horses with sarcoids. Given there is a genetic suseptibility link in thoroughbreds, I'm guessing that potentially excludes a large percentage of horses ie warmbloods are all part bred thoroughbred (including Traks).
 
Had a horse with several different types if sarcoids & neither of my other 2 got any & my mare was regularly very "up close & personal" with him. My vet did mention the virus spread by flies from cattle theory, but added research is ongoing & no-one really sure. 40 + other horses on the yard & he was the only 1 with sarcoids.
I think there must be an underlying trigger, would never buy a horse with sarcoids, 2 years on he's dead.
 
So basically it's just a theory and there's not concrete proof. Find it v odd that someone suggested on the other thread that it'd be a deal braked for putting your horse onto a livery yard because it had them, never heard of that before!
 
My horse has been treated for nodular sarcoids and a verrucous (sp) one. The vets told me they are caused by a virus that's spread by flies but it's not contagious from horse to horse, mine possibly has another 2 just in front of the girth, almost identical to the pair that were treated on the off side girth area. I asked the vets, do I need to treat them if the horse is not ridden and they said if left they are more likely to spread on this horse.

The vet also said they are much more common these days and they treat a lot, but there's a lot they don't know about them.
 
Keenjean said:
So basically it's just a theory and there's not concrete proof. Find it v odd that someone suggested on the other thread that it'd be a deal braked for putting your horse onto a livery yard because it had them, never heard of that before!
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Well the professor who treated mine for very clear about the risk of transfer as is my vet , on the genetics they told me the commonest type of horse they treat them on is Irish horses and by that they meanlt horses from Ireland they felt that is either because they are bulk bred and not treated as soon as they appear and or they have lots of contact with cows I have never had one on a TB all the horses I have owned with them where from Ireland ( and most of my horses are not Irish ) and one ID who was English bred , like a lot of these things perhaps partly genetics and of course they have to catch the virus from somewhere they don't spontaneously appear the virus must be present.
The photos of the horse where they knew the sarcoid was started by a fly getting into the wound of a horse being treated after an accident where horrible it formed a sarcoid on the wound which sort of grew inwards it was PTS but it would have killed it.
I would not allow a horse with bad raw sarcoids on this yard.
They are in a lot of cases a problem you can handle if you have the persistence and the money but you must know what it is you are dealing with before you buy .
 
Keenjean said:
So basically it's just a theory and there's not concrete proof. Find it v odd that someone suggested on the other thread that it'd be a deal braked for putting your horse onto a livery yard because it had them, never heard of that before!
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I justified completely on that thread why I made that comment - it is just the recent experience of a person with a horse with sarcoids.
 
DabDab said:
It suggests that it is unclear whether the virus can be passed from cows to horses, working on the premise that the virus itself is infectious.
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Seems pretty clear to me?!

'We conclude that BPV does not undergo productive infection in the epidermis overlying equine sarcoids at levels comparable with that occurring in its natural bovine host.'
 
TheMule said:
Seems pretty clear to me?!

'We conclude that BPV does not undergo productive infection in the epidermis overlying equine sarcoids at levels comparable with that occurring in its natural bovine host.'
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I interpret that to mean that is it, just less so than cattle.
 
TheMule said:
Seems pretty clear to me?!

'We conclude that BPV does not undergo productive infection in the epidermis overlying equine sarcoids at levels comparable with that occurring in its natural bovine host.'
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"Here we report that BPV1 RNA isolated from equine sarcoids encodes a unique deletion of four residues within the L2 protein suggesting a novel variant of virus has evolved in equines. Such viral evolution would require the production and transmission of virus particles among horses with sarcoids."

I only gave the link to the article in case people wanted to investigate sarcoids as there will be a lot of links around the article that I picked (fairly randomly I might add). I just don't really understand why, when it comes to something scientific people don't just go and read academic articles that will be written by people who are the best in their field rather than discussing it on here.

ETA: I had know idea about the theory of cows spreading the virus to horses before I read this thread :)
 
I have a livery yard and have never known any sarcoids to spread. A livery has just had his treated with Liverpool cream. It was very large and has completely cleared up, but he has lived here 5 years and been in with all the others at one time or another. None of them have caught them. My gelding arrived here 3 years ago with a flat dormant sarcoid. I left it alone as it was just an area of bare skin really. Last year though it started to sprout, and this Spring had developed several black nodules which were quickly growing. I have been treating it with toothpaste for the past 6 days and it is now starting to fall off. I have a thread going in the veterinary section. I will update the photographs this evening.
 
I know that scientifically there are many different theories. But from experience of our yard, we had two horses with sarcoids and subsequently three other horses in the same yard developed sarcoids. I cannot see this as a mere coincidence. The yard is finally clear and no horses with sarcoids will be joining our yard again. I have heard the fly theory, and this seems to be the most likely to be true. It does not do any harm to take precautions such as ensuring the sarcoids are covered up or if this is not possible, treated with fly repellent or barrier cream.
 
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