Are some people just never any good?

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

i dont think its always the riding/lessons/horse bit that hold people back, its all the stuff in between. The yard work, horse care, planning, tweaking, changing, experimenting.

and thats the bit that takes feel and balls, just as much as the part on top of the horse.

i know people that spend a good whack on horses, train with top top riders and NEVER really progress because they struggle to use the info given to them in lessons, struggle to put it in to practice alone, struggle to use info from different sources in their own training plan, struggle to formulate a real training plan even. They have no feel for changing or experimenting stuff so tend to get stuck in a sour cycle.

thats what i see happening anyway.

 

[Cortez]

i know people that spend a good whack on horses, train with top top riders and NEVER really progress because they struggle to use the info given to them in lessons, struggle to put it in to practice alone, struggle to use info from different sources in their own training plan, struggle to formulate a real training plan even. They have no feel for changing or experimenting stuff so tend to get stuck in a sour cycle.

Very true: THOSE are the unteachables...........

 

[4faults]

This is just how I feel, I have been riding for years but feel I have very much plateaued. A lot of it is to do with the fact that life is very full and money does not grow on trees. I'm hoping to turn things around a bit this year by setting myself some goals and finding a new instructor

 

[Goldenstar]

Goal setting is a powerful tool .
When I am not bumming around I have short ,within the next month ,medium ,three month and long a yearish goals .
I write them down in a book each horse has it's own book .
And then I use the book for comment notes after clinics things I have heard to try etc etc .
I make a plan of how I am going to get each goal.
IME to work well goals have to realistic and time limited .

 

[4faults]

Goal setting is a powerful tool .
When I am not bumming around I have short ,within the next month ,medium ,three month and long a yearish goals .
I write them down in a book each horse has it's own book .
And then I use the book for comment notes after clinics things I have heard to try etc etc .
I make a plan of how I am going to get each goal.
IME to work well goals have to realistic and time limited .

I love this idea Goldenstar, I think I'm going to steal it

 

[blood_magik]

unfortunately, some people are just (sickening) talented and go through the levels without having to slog their guts out to get there, whereas others have to shed blood, sweat and tears and it takes years to get the results they want...

have you asked your instructor why you're not improving (assuming you have one)?

If I were you, I would maybe see about having a lesson with a different instructor. a fresh set of eyes could work wonders and they may have a few tricks up their sleeve that could help - what works for one person/horse doesn't necessarily work for everyone. 🙂

 

[Caol Ila]

Yes. Me. That's why I quit dressage shows more than a decade ago. I didn't need to pay hundreds of bucks every week to be told that I still sucked. Never enough coordination or body awareness to 'make' it above American Second Level (Medium or so in British) or get very good scores at that level -- and yes, I was taking lessons, going to clinics, yadda yadda yadda. It was easier and more fun to work less hard and get to the same place (nowhere) without the pain of riding dressage tests at shows, working your ass off to get yet another 58%. Screw that, man. I wasn't enough of a masochist; I figured out that myself and horse were happier when I just enjoyed doing what we could do.

 

[Goldenstar]

Yes. Me. That's why I quit dressage shows more than a decade ago. I didn't need to pay hundreds of bucks every week to be told that I still sucked. Never enough coordination or body awareness to 'make' it above American Second Level (Medium or so in British) or get very good scores at that level -- and yes, I was taking lessons, going to clinics, yadda yadda yadda. It was easier and more fun to work less hard and get to the same place (nowhere) without the pain of riding dressage tests at shows, working your ass off to get yet another 58%. Screw that, man. I wasn't enough of a masochist; I figured out that myself and horse were happier when I just enjoyed doing what we could do.

That's a goal in it's self .
Goals don't have to be competitive we just tend to think they are .
As a younger rider I would not have known that but as I have got older I see that a goal is a goal enjoying hacking or I will get my horse to the beach for aride x times a month is as valid a goal as I will do a medium by August or something like that .

 

[coffeeandabagel]

I remember posting something very similar to this a while ago - was feeling very blue. Some things have changed - I have a horse (on loan) that helps me whereas my own horse doesn't - she is too much inside her own little world. So some things have got better but I still really struggle to feel when I am riding.
My main instructor has the patience of a saint and is learning to come up with very visual ways of explaining things ie make my arms like a choo choo train to keep the elbows bent and to give, sounds babyish but I choo choo round the school and the horse appreciates it!
She has recommended I get more all round fitness and said it has helped her train another rider - somehow they get it more - whether its better physical strength, flexibility or increased body awareness I don't know but pilates is my aim for this month.

 

[electric_circus]

unfortunately, some people are just (sickening) talented and go through the levels without having to slog their guts out to get there, whereas others have to shed blood, sweat and tears and it takes years to get the results they want...

have you asked your instructor why you're not improving (assuming you have one)?

If I were you, I would maybe see about having a lesson with a different instructor. a fresh set of eyes could work wonders and they may have a few tricks up their sleeve that could help - what works for one person/horse doesn't necessarily work for everyone.

I'm not sure that's true. I have competed at a high level in another non-equestrian sport and from pure rankings over the years it probably seems as though I was successful very quickly... in reality I was training twice a day, every day, had instruction from a top coach and was competing at weekends as well! Yeah ok, I did have some aptitude for the sport in question, but without hard work talent is only a small part of the equation. Talent is often also lazy... you see people who are talented but not training effortfully plateauing as those around them improve. Totally agree with the change of instructor being a good idea too; sometimes it is a simple as them being able to explain something in a way that is comprehensible to you or spotting something about your technique that is impeding you.

 

[4faults]

Well I have given myself a kick up the backside thanks to this thread, two lessons booked for this month and a show pencilled in to my newly purchased diary for next month. Fingers crossed

 

[hippocobamus]

Although everybody has different levels of competency and natural ability, I do think the right horse can make a huge difference. Riding a naturally athletic horse that is not hampered by underlying physical or behavioural problems makes it so much easier to improve than riding a horse that is not built for the job, or for some reason, finds it difficult to match the riders expectations and isn't confident to 'help out' when a rider gets it wrong.

Saying that, I stick to my little hippocob as he's exactly what I need for what I want to do, but if I wanted to do more, then I wouldn't expect him to be the right horse to help me out on a duff stride around a BE100 - he'd need to be placed properly at each fence in order to get around such a course, and a rider such as myself would not be able to do that.

 

[JennBags]

Well I have given myself a kick up the backside thanks to this thread, two lessons booked for this month and a show pencilled in to my newly purchased diary for next month. Fingers crossed

Me too, I'm also going to take GS's idea of writing down some goals - I set them in my head, but think I need to put them down on paper, and break them down into smaller chunks.

Although just had a small set-back as had to cancel my lesson as G wasn't quite right, hopefully just a short-term thing.

 

[EQUIDAE]

I have always been the rubbish rider of all my friends (I did my first intro whereas my friends are out doing foxhunter and BE100). Now I do a schedule for mine and try to stick to it, and then goals for each day.

Mon - day off
Tues - lunge/longline/inhand
Weds - Flat schooling
Thurs - loose jumping (if flat lesson planned for fri)
Fri - Lesson alternate jumping and flat
Sat - Relaxing slow long hack
Sun - Short hack with some fast work and jumping if we have only jumped once in the week

I only really jump in lessons and as a result I never progress as quickly as I would like - note to self DO MORE!

I also have a timeframe of what I want to achieve and by when - the end of last year I wanted to be jumping 80cm uprights and 60cm spread and I did The plan was to do my first intro dressage and I did this on 30th Dec With fixed plans and a goal in mind I seem to make progress, when bumbling along I wasted a whole year once barely riding...

ETA - I am so picky about my riding that I wouldn't compete till I knew I was ready. I'm not one of those brave enough to just have a go.

 

[star]

I think the right horse is key. I also learnt to ride in a riding school and didn't get my own horse until I was 19. He was great at dressage and gave me really fab experience at Novice / Elementary but he was awful at jumping and eventually put me in hospital with one of his dirty run outs. I didn't jump again for years and was quite frankly terrified of it until I got Llewi who taught me to love XC and hunting but he also hated SJ.

When I got Monty I still hadn't ever jumped a SJ course over 2ft6. We have now competed up to 1.05m BSJA so up to 1m15 in the 2nd phase. Also gone clear round Badminton Grassroots BE100. And I've trained him from Prelim to Advanced Medium and hoping to go Advanced this year. He has been totally awesome but he's nothing special to look at - just a 15.2hh TB X Welsh Cob with a fab attitude. He certainly has his quirks to keep me on my toes but he does try really hard to please. I have some great trainers who have really inspired me to keep pushing myself and stay focused.

Having goals in mind really helps me keep pushing on. I have a goal in mind for each schooling session, then I have more long term competition aims like doing an Advanced by summer. In order to make that goal I know I need to conquer my 3 time changes and half canter pirouettes and in order to do those I need to get my individual changes on request wherever I want them etc etc. Set the long term goals then work out what short term ones you need to meet first and make deadlines to keep you focused. Lots of people comment on how far I've managed to get with Monty. I don't think I'm especially talented at all, but I am really focused and hard working and take everything I can from every lesson. Also have a blog to record it all and track progress.

 

[Pigeon]

I think fitness and strength is a major factor, as is having an instructor who is invested in you, and setting goals. After that it's just getting out there. I still feel like a fraud competing at the level I do, but I'm always pleasantly surprised by our scores. I think if you wait til everything's perfect, you might miss out on fun opportunities.

Also you're probably better than you realise. If you're critical of your riding, at least you know what needs work, and that is the first step to improvement.

 

[Cowpony]

I think it also depends on whether you are both learning together, or if one of you is able to teach the other. It's so much harder if you are teaching a horse something new, but you've never done it either. That's why it's sometimes good to have lessons on another horse, so you can get the feel of what you are after, learn the correct aids and then teach your horse to give you that feeling.

 

[Cortez]

I think it also depends on whether you are both learning together, or if one of you is able to teach the other. It's so much harder if you are teaching a horse something new, but you've never done it either. That's why it's sometimes good to have lessons on another horse, so you can get the feel of what you are after, learn the correct aids and then teach your horse to give you that feeling.

Frankly, trying to teach a horse to do something that you don't know how to do either is madness. The only sensible way to be learning advanced stuff is on a schoolmaster horse with a proper, experienced instructor. Watching tiny kids in Spain riding Papa's stallion doing piaffe, passage, levades, etc. is wonderful to watch, and the reason why advanced riding is second nature over there.

 

[Cowpony]

Frankly, trying to teach a horse to do something that you don't know how to do either is madness. The only sensible way to be learning advanced stuff is on a schoolmaster horse with a proper, experienced instructor. Watching tiny kids in Spain riding Papa's stallion doing piaffe, passage, levades, etc. is wonderful to watch, and the reason why advanced riding is second nature over there.

I'm not necessarily talking about advanced stuff. My mare had never done dressage when I bought her (she's a jumping pony from choice) and I'd only ever done one test, when I was about 12. We're now consistently scoring high 60s at Prelim and will move up to Novice this year. We'd have got there a lot quicker if one of us had been more experienced, but it is possible when you are both learning, albeit more slowly. I have a great instructor and occasional lessons on a been-there-done-that horse, which has helped. Could I teach my mare to piaffe? Not in a million years! But I take great pride in the level she is at at the moment and I don't think it is over-ambitious for us to aim for Elementary at the right time. Which might be next year or 3 years from now. The great thing is, it's not a race!

 

[JFTDWS]

Frankly, trying to teach a horse to do something that you don't know how to do either is madness. The only sensible way to be learning advanced stuff is on a schoolmaster horse with a proper, experienced instructor. Watching tiny kids in Spain riding Papa's stallion doing piaffe, passage, levades, etc. is wonderful to watch, and the reason why advanced riding is second nature over there.

Well that's my problem right there. I've made it as far as having established all the relevant lateral work and can move between it fairly seamlessly, without having ever ridden another horse which can do it. But changes, canter piris and piaffe/passage are a bit of a stumbling block at the moment.

Although without decent access to a school, plus another couple of months lost without a saddle again this year (I do a lot bareback, but there are limits!), perhaps my expectations for progress are too high!

 

[Neptune]

Thanks all. Some good ideas and food for thought all at the same time. A lot of points hitting home but also good to know I am not alone in my feelings.

I try to set myself goals and break them down to help reach them but the months just seem to pass by so quick before I have a chance to establish each broken down point of the main goal.

I love my horse he is talented but not always helpful to me. He does require pushing to get the best out of him and sometimes I feel as if I can not always get him there, even though another day I may do. It is so Jekyll and Hyde with him. I do not see myself parting with him though as when it is good it is very good. Just we do seem to have more down days than up days. But guess the more experienced I come in being able to get the best out of him in will set me up for any future horses I may ride. I know once I have cracked it with him there will be no stopping us, it's just taking longer than I had hoped for.

 

[star]

Frankly, trying to teach a horse to do something that you don't know how to do either is madness. The only sensible way to be learning advanced stuff is on a schoolmaster horse with a proper, experienced instructor. Watching tiny kids in Spain riding Papa's stallion doing piaffe, passage, levades, etc. is wonderful to watch, and the reason why advanced riding is second nature over there.

Sadly we don't all have access to schoolmasters. I've managed to teach mine to do tempi changes (so far up to 3 times) having never ridden a flying change before. My trainer has just offered me a ride on her GP horse which will be amazing as it will be so much easier to have ridden the movements on something knowledgable before I try and teach mine. Sure we'd have progressed quicker if I'd had a schoolmaster to learn on but it's not impossible to do it yourself.

 

[Bernster]

I think the right horse is key. I also learnt to ride in a riding school and didn't get my own horse until I was 19. He was great at dressage and gave me really fab experience at Novice / Elementary but he was awful at jumping and eventually put me in hospital with one of his dirty run outs. I didn't jump again for years and was quite frankly terrified of it until I got Llewi who taught me to love XC and hunting but he also hated SJ.

When I got Monty I still hadn't ever jumped a SJ course over 2ft6. We have now competed up to 1.05m BSJA so up to 1m15 in the 2nd phase. Also gone clear round Badminton Grassroots BE100. And I've trained him from Prelim to Advanced Medium and hoping to go Advanced this year. He has been totally awesome but he's nothing special to look at - just a 15.2hh TB X Welsh Cob with a fab attitude. He certainly has his quirks to keep me on my toes but he does try really hard to please. I have some great trainers who have really inspired me to keep pushing myself and stay focused.

Having goals in mind really helps me keep pushing on. I have a goal in mind for each schooling session, then I have more long term competition aims like doing an Advanced by summer. In order to make that goal I know I need to conquer my 3 time changes and half canter pirouettes and in order to do those I need to get my individual changes on request wherever I want them etc etc. Set the long term goals then work out what short term ones you need to meet first and make deadlines to keep you focused. Lots of people comment on how far I've managed to get with Monty. I don't think I'm especially talented at all, but I am really focused and hard working and take everything I can from every lesson. Also have a blog to record it all and track progress.

Wow, I've followed some of your reports and thought how fab you've been doing. Hadn't realised where you started, that's impressive stuff!

 

[Goldenstar]

Frankly, trying to teach a horse to do something that you don't know how to do either is madness. The only sensible way to be learning advanced stuff is on a schoolmaster horse with a proper, experienced instructor. Watching tiny kids in Spain riding Papa's stallion doing piaffe, passage, levades, etc. is wonderful to watch, and the reason why advanced riding is second nature over there.

While it's certainly easier if you have access to a schoolmaster it's not impossible without .
But you do need the right horse and the right help.

 

[EQUIDAE]

While it's certainly easier if you have access to a schoolmaster it's not impossible without .
But you do need the right horse and the right help.

Agreed - I was perfectly happy backing and schooling on my mare but fine edged someone else to teach her to jump. I was too picky with who I would let near her so ended up doing it myself - I went from only having jumped little cross poles to jumping 80cm. Not ideal but she's a gem

 

[only_me]

Frankly, trying to teach a horse to do something that you don't know how to do either is madness. The only sensible way to be learning advanced stuff is on a schoolmaster horse with a proper, experienced instructor. Watching tiny kids in Spain riding Papa's stallion doing piaffe, passage, levades, etc. is wonderful to watch, and the reason why advanced riding is second nature over there.

See, I don't agree with this. I enjoy bringing on young horses and teaching them. I'm lucky in that I've currently got a horse who I've had from a 4 year old And from the moment that i sat on him we clicked. He loves to work but is easy with it.
I've never got to the level we are at now before. Maximum was elementary with previous horses.
But I managed to teach him HP in canter & trot, half pirouettes, flying changes and now we can do 3 time changes. From reading a few books at home & watching how the GP riders ride each movement so I could understand the aids/movement more. I know i should get a lesson to learn what the aids/movements are, but my horse will still ride differently so I need to understand the methods behind the movement.

But you can't teach yourself and the horse from a book. Which is what i think a lot of people are doing atm - they can't cope with horses that aren't what the textbook says, they can't understand WHY the horse is doing what it's doing & WHY it doesn't look like the book. Then they don't understand how do fix whatever is going wrong. So they either ignore and continue on (or forget about flatwork and just jump, which is what happens in pc a lot) or they get a lesson & work on the problem, or they ring the vet who gets very happy as the rider wants a complete check up done as the horse MUST be in pain because it's not working right.

every horse is different so I focus on what the movement should LOOK like and then break it down into how do get it. And work out how it corresponds to how my horse moves & the best way of learning it will be.
Eg. I know what a change should look like. I know what the "normal" methods of teaching are. But i also know that doing a change over a pole wouldn't work for my horse. But I know my horse is good at walk to canter. And I know that doing a flying change whilst changing direction is the easiest option. So I focused on a very rounded figure of 8. Whilst changing rein over middle of school I started by doing simple changes. Once he was expecting I asked for a direct lead change over the same place (all the changes were done "up" the arena) and made my weight change in the saddle very obvious. When he was happy doing them I reduced my weight change until it was v subtle. Over a few sessions then made the rounded direction change so we were doing changes on the diagonal. Then progressed onto straight lines & now we can even do 3 time. But it's just for fun - I enjoyed doing it. It probably isnt the textbook way of teaching a horse - but since when has a horse been textbook?

 

[Cortez]

Believe me, getting expert tuition on a correctly trained horse is one million times easier (for you, and mostly for the horse, and the one you are going to train in the future) than trying to bungle through all sorts of misconceptions. It's always been the way classical riding has been passed on.

 

[only_me]

Believe me, getting expert tuition on a correctly trained horse is one million times easier (for you, and mostly for the horse, and the one you are going to train in the future) than trying to bungle through all sorts of misconceptions. It's always been the way classical riding has been passed on.

Easy if you have access to a correctly trained advanced level schoolmaster, but since the majority of us don't, then we have to learn a different way.

OP, I think that everyone is as a good as the work they put in. Just because you don't win out at a comp doesn't mean you can't ride, it's looking for the small victories when out competing. Eg. Did horse behave in warm up? Did I remember test? Did I keep a better contact etc. If everyone won everytime they went out there wouldn't be a competition

Plus, riding horses is meant to be fun, which I think we've all forgotten at points. Especially this winter lol. I know I have!

 

[Goldenstar]

I do not subcribe to the view that the only people who can learn to ride and train well are those that have ridden piaffe on Dads stallion while still being breastfed .
From Carl Hester to Mary king I can just think of too many people who it does not apply to.

 

[star]

Wow, I've followed some of your reports and thought how fab you've been doing. Hadn't realised where you started, that's impressive stuff!

Thanks - Monty has been an absolute gem. Absolutely love him! Personal best of 67% at Medium BD today and nearly 64% in the Advanced Medium in atrocious weather. Can't wait to get my tailcoat ready for some Advanced! Ever since I started riding I wanted to ride in top hat and tails. It keeps me motivated through the yucky winters and through the setbacks and injuries. Each time we get to a new level we start with wanting 60%, then 65% then it's 70% and suddenly the next level is achievable. Thought my trainer was nuts when she said we could do Advanced Medium. Still think she's nuts as it's now moved on to PSG but really hope she's right! We've reached our limits with jumping but dressage you can just keep on going!