Are the more expensive Arena surfaces worth the extra money?

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Mega

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Just constructing an arena (outdoor) for myself and my two daughters to ride on.
Thinking Pre mixed and waxed is probably best. Had quotes from Andrews Bowen and Equestrian Surfaces. We are awaiting a quote from combi ride. Where we are is fairly exposed we ride about 5 x a week each mixture of flat and jumping any advice or tips on what surface to go for very much appreciated. Obviously don’t want to pay the earth but equally want a good surface fit for purpose that my horses will ride well on and that will last as changing the surface because I’ve tried to save a few bob would be false economy.
Thanks so much everyone.
 
I would not recommend combi ride.

I believe that spending money getting the drainage right is more important than how posh the surface is. But, whatever surface you get, it is important to make sure the sand it is made up with is the correct type of sand.

Unless you want to jump big fences, I am a fan of sand and rubber. The rubber stops it from freezing in all but the worst of weathers.

The waxed combi ride surface we had was awful to ride on, held water in some areas of the arena. The wax actually stopped it draining. Then it froze. Even when it was not frozen, it made for an uneven riding surface where some was soggy and some not. Some was very wet on top, but dry underneath. It was unpleasant!

A rubber topped surface is not so stable if you are jumping big fences, but it is pretty foolproof (as long as the correct equestrian sand is used). That is what I have at home, and I even turn out on it. As long as it has the occasional harrow, it is FAB. Been down for years too.
 
Don't go with unwaxed combi ride. I paid for it and have ridden on another. It disappeared in two years, you'd never know it was ever there. Other people on this forum have said the same if you do a search.

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No IMO.....i wouldnt want to ride on wax daily as think it strains the soft tissues of the feet and causes a lot of lameness problems.

i went for silica sand with a budget carpet fibre top and it rides amazingly, very low maintenance.
 
I did a bit of research about arena surfaces ,in that I asked a lot of the pros I know. ( so not exactly extensive !) I went to a few BS comps and asked everyone there:) They where all in agreement, avoid wax surfaces. They say they are ok for occasional use, but found that these type of surfaces got inside tendon boots and rubbed the horses. I went with a standard premixed fibre surface and its been fab.( I went with the same surface as one of the pros) Arena was built about 5 years ago, and still as good as the day it was built. Far superior to the arena I had with the rubber surface . ( which was built by the same people.)
 
Best surfaces I have ever ridden in have been sand and crushed cockle shell- not sure if you can still get it but it's stable, dies not dry out to dust and doesnt freeze easily, after lots of use I never knew it to ride deep either.
I have rubber with a passion and my late vet did too, he actually had it removed from his manege due to having too many lameness issues when it was down, he evented and his wife competed at dressage, all the horses did at least 20 mins Road work on a working day by warming up and cooling down with a walk down the lanes so it was not just school work for them.
I have ridden and worked with the sand and carpet fibre is to and whilst initially nice it then rode deep and on a windy day all the fire would blow to one end of the school.
 
As has already been mentioned above the most important bits of an arena are the bits you can't see - drainage.
The specifics of this are site-dependent, and the type and level of use. The constructors should discuss this sort of thing with you. We have a private school that is about 20 years old now - we got asked about whether it was mainly for wet-weather use (it is) and type of work particularly jumping (do very little apart from gridwork) and the drainage and substrates were designed accordingly. Things may have moved on a bit from then.

i'm sure you've already done this but do make sure that there are no restrictions on your planning permission on surface types too.
 
Thank you for all the comments. All very interesting. So sorry I thought wax helped stop it freezing in winter and holds moisture in summer? Why is it bad for feet? We don’t tend to wear boots apart from on one pony for jumping.
We have lots of drains in and all the stuff underneath is to the best spec possible.
No restrictions on planning advice about surface type. I am worried about fibre blowing away if it doesn’t bind in the sand properly. Planning on using equestrian grade silica sand from Bathgate just need to decide on the best stabiliser.
 
Asha said:
I did a bit of research about arena surfaces ,in that I asked a lot of the pros I know. ( so not exactly extensive !) I went to a few BS comps and asked everyone there:) They where all in agreement, avoid wax surfaces. They say they are ok for occasional use, but found that these type of surfaces got inside tendon boots and rubbed the horses. I went with a standard premixed fibre surface and its been fab.( I went with the same surface as one of the pros) Arena was built about 5 years ago, and still as good as the day it was built. Far superior to the arena I had with the rubber surface . ( which was built by the same people.)
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Do you remember who’s premixed fibre it was please?
 
twiggy2 said:
Best surfaces I have ever ridden in have been sand and crushed cockle shell- not sure if you can still get it but it's stable, dies not dry out to dust and doesnt freeze easily, after lots of use I never knew it to ride deep either.
I have rubber with a passion and my late vet did too, he actually had it removed from his manege due to having too many lameness issues when it was down, he evented and his wife competed at dressage, all the horses did at least 20 mins Road work on a working day by warming up and cooling down with a walk down the lanes so it was not just school work for them.
I have ridden and worked with the sand and carpet fibre is to and whilst initially nice it then rode deep and on a windy day all the fire would blow to one end of the school.
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The cockle shells sound like an interesting option. Not seen it advertised lately!
 
Hallo2012 said:
No IMO.....i wouldnt want to ride on wax daily as think it strains the soft tissues of the feet and causes a lot of lameness problems.
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I have read and heard this too, including a couple of examples of wax arenas being installed and much higher incidents of lameness at those yards. .

I have a barefoot horse, and am at a yard, with a small waxed indoor school and a fibre and sand outdoor school. We are only allowed to lunge in the indoor school. I tend to use the indoor school for ground work / desensitization / in hand work / occasionally ride if it's very wet etc. Only the indoor school has lights (but I often manage to flex my hours to ride in the light outside anyway).

Any thoughts on how many times a week working on wax is okay before it becomes an issue.
 
Mega said:
Do you remember who’s premixed fibre it was please?
Click to expand...
Asha said:
I did a bit of research about arena surfaces ,in that I asked a lot of the pros I know. ( so not exactly extensive !) I went to a few BS comps and asked everyone there:) They where all in agreement, avoid wax surfaces. They say they are ok for occasional use, but found that these type of surfaces got inside tendon boots and rubbed the horses. I went with a standard premixed fibre surface and its been fab.( I went with the same surface as one of the pros) Arena was built about 5 years ago, and still as good as the day it was built. Far superior to the arena I had with the rubber surface . ( which was built by the same people.)
Click to expand...

Was getting in boots the main reason said avoid wax? I thought the consensus was the lack of slip in wax could be linked to increased lameness if used regularly?
 
No, drainage is the most important, even with all the rain my arena is perfect to ride in although we might have done the drainage a bit too good as as can get a bit deep in Summer. We have silica sand and Carpet Gallop on top and just roll it periodically.
 
flying_high said:
Was getting in boots the main reason said avoid wax? I thought the consensus was the lack of slip in wax could be linked to increased lameness if used regularly?
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the people i spoke to all said the same thing, but their experience was from competing on wax surfaces, so not the same as having them at home. If they had been at shows on wax surfaces for stay away shows, they found the wax surface got inside tendon boots on the horses and made them sore. Plus they also found the same with themselves , particularly if they hit the deck... It chaffed a little when inside the jodphurs .
 
I think it very much depends on which waxed surface you get. My yard has an indoor and an outdoor arena both with waxed surfaces but from two different companies. Both get used consistently and we haven't had any lameness issues. The indoor surface is slightly looser than the outdoor which I prefer as the horse's foot does move / slip a small amount on it but less than several other surfaces we have had over the years. One thing I have noticed is that occasionally a horse who doesn't lift it's feet well can trip slightly but it's generally ones that have been used to dragging their toes through loose sand or woodchip type surfaces, once they are encouraged to work correctly there have been no problems. However, as others have said the surface is only as good as it's base and drainage and also the surface must be maintained, ours are harrowed regularly as I think they would become too hard and compacted if this wasn't done.
 
The yard I’m at has an Andrew Bowen’s surface (GP I think ?) I LOVE it! It’s quite firm so suits my psd horse. It’s been down for 4 years now and as far as I know never been rolled or harrowed - just a bit of raking where needed ??
 
flying_high said:
I have read and heard this too, including a couple of examples of wax arenas being installed and much higher incidents of lameness at those yards. .

I have a barefoot horse, and am at a yard, with a small waxed indoor school and a fibre and sand outdoor school. We are only allowed to lunge in the indoor school. I tend to use the indoor school for ground work / desensitization / in hand work / occasionally ride if it's very wet etc. Only the indoor school has lights (but I often manage to flex my hours to ride in the light outside anyway).

Any thoughts on how many times a week working on wax is okay before it becomes an issue.
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Apparently waxed surfaces are banned for international showjumping now; I can't find any official link but that's what I hear from pro showjumpers.
Lots of vets think waxed surfaced lead to injuries because they compact so much.

Saying that, my dressage instructor has waxed surface in her arena and it's the best surface I've seen, it was from well known brand but she customised it to have minimum amount of wax and puts lots of time and effort into maintaining it; it's about 10 years old now and is as good as new, never freezes and never floods. But I've definitely seen bad waxed surfaces in the area too (no doubt very expensive ones, at big show centres as well), too compacted and slippery.
 
My yard's surface is sand and rubber - From what YO said, I think it's recycled rubber insulation that goes around copper wire. When they strip the copper for recycling the grind up the insulation to create a rubber crumb. When the school was put in about 30 years ago it was cutting edge. I've been there 17 years and it's been great the whole time and seems very low maintenance. YO levels it far less than we'd like but even when it looks a bit lumpy it rides well. It had a top up about 6 years ago but that's all it's had.
 
I also would avoid a wax surface for every day use. Fine for comp venues but not for personal use too regularly. In my opinion they don't allow the foot to move/ slide as it hits the ground - it tends to grab it and make it stay in the position it landed in and over time that can lead to soft tissue injuries such as suspensory issues. Personally I believe that wax surfaces have a lot to do with how common PSD is nowadays.
 
Fanatical said:
I also would avoid a wax surface for every day use. Fine for comp venues but not for personal use too regularly. In my opinion they don't allow the foot to move/ slide as it hits the ground - it tends to grab it and make it stay in the position it landed in and over time that can lead to soft tissue injuries such as suspensory issues. Personally I believe that wax surfaces have a lot to do with how common PSD is nowadays.
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That is what I have also heard.
 
Fanatical said:
I also would avoid a wax surface for every day use. Fine for comp venues but not for personal use too regularly. In my opinion they don't allow the foot to move/ slide as it hits the ground - it tends to grab it and make it stay in the position it landed in and over time that can lead to soft tissue injuries such as suspensory issues. Personally I believe that wax surfaces have a lot to do with how common PSD is nowadays.
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I know of lots of PSD cases but none of them were ridden on waxed surfaces.

It's my impression that the increase is due to how much more arena work is done these days, coupled with the increasing demand for horses which were not bred for the purpose to carry more weight on the hind legs as dressage schooling and competition has become more popular. Forty years ago a coloured cob competing at dressage was rare creature indeed.

We need some proper research into the increase in PSD.

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ycbm said:
I know of lots of PSD cases but none of them were ridden on waxed surfaces.

It's my impression that the increase is due to how much more arena work is done these days, coupled with the increasing demand for horses which were not bred for the purpose to carry more weight on the hind legs as dressage schooling and competition has become more popular. Forty years ago a coloured cob competing at dressage was rare creature indeed.

We need some proper research into the increase in PSD.

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Absolutely, of course there is no proof but it makes sense, and I believe a waxed surface was the primary (and not necessarily sole) cause of my boy being diagnosed with PSD.
 
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