Are the Showjumpers going to let us down ?

Thats true, I think they are considering the WEG a practice run for younger inexperienced horses in the run up to the Olympics. There is a long time to the Olympics though and a lot of things can change.

There is an argument that says they were in no different a situation to the eventers and dressagers though in that the games have been well known for a long time and those disciplines have delivered. if I were funding the various disciplines I would put the money where the results are.
 
Oh for heaven's sake stop. You're not even giving these guys a chance before putting the boot in. Can't you just support them? Don't forget it's not over 'til the fat lady sings................
 
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There's nothing wrong with high expectations, I think the trouble is the other disciplines have set the standard.

I do think things have hugely improved with RH so it may have been a shame he hasn't been around longer.
 
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Ignition said:
They haven't exactly got the top team there, so I do feel they are up against it.
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Agreed. With all due respect to our SJ-ers out, last night I did find myself asking the tv where certain other people were . . . . I can think of at least four I would have sent instead of a couple of them . . . . .
OK, Team GB might be more concerned about 2012 but this is the World Championships at the end of the day and the Olympics are two years away, and we all know how fragile the horse world can be with injuries and top horses being sold etc. Carpe diem!!!!!
 
The team was selected as I understand it to give less experienced horses and/or riders experience of riding at the top level to prepare them for the olympics. I in fact commend them for doing that, it takes guts so decide to not take your well known riders. It has also been mentioned in the previous posts about the WEG SJ team that even taking our top team a final position of 6th was realistic.
If you have watched yesterdays team SJ round you would have seen Scott brash jump a lovely round, being very unlucky for 4 faults at the water. It was Michael who had the worst score in the end!!
Give the boys a chance and get behind them, the team is in the top 10 and it is very close between 3rd and 10th
 
I must admit I am really angry that they SJ'ers seem to be treating the WORLDS as a practice run when the drivers can't even afford to go..... it's not like there aren't enough big international shows in Europe and it's not like they have to practice the flights! Aachen CHIO is a good example of a massive show where youngsters can get exp.

I'm still supporting the team, they're out there now, nothing productive about ranting, and I really hope they get a medal but still....
 
It's actually the most experienced rider we have out there (and arguably the best in the country at the moment) who has had the worst results for us. Michael is not on the youngest of the 'young' horses out there....nor the least experienced....butas he himself admits he has made a couple of big mistakes (by his standards anyway). You might argue that he was viewing this as his last big chance at a world title....and that if the speed leg had come off he'd be in a very good position.

Don't write off the team completely though...the is only a pole and a time fault or so seprating us from a medal at the moment....everything to play for...and Robert Smith is well placed for a crack at the individual medals on a horse that is in very good form at the moment.

The team that have really disappointed for me are the Dutch though....waaay down the list.
 
I do not believe the British team have any chance of a medal at all because the course this eveing will be a monster. Yesterday's was already as big as most Meydan Nation's Cup tracks and the British scaped in because other teams under performed. However, you should all be getting behind the horse and rider combination not originally selected to go, who have not touched a pole so far and currently lie eigth over all I think. Scott Brash has rarely jumped two good rounds in a row in Nations Cups this season at the highest level, although the over night break may help his horse, David Mcpherson's is young and inexperienced and Michael has made to many errors already. Not one person on this thread that I can see has mentioned the outstanding performance of Robert Smith and Talan, who he says is the best horse he has ever had, who have lead off for Britain and therefore not got the benefit of another riders opinion of how the course rode and they have been superb. Britain would not even have been in the top ten if it was not for his clear round.
 
i havent seen the full results so dont know how the other teams have done. but i think robert smith is doing a fantastic job out there, talan has jumped fantastically from the first day and i dont understand why he wasnt picked for the team originally instead of being a reserve, but so glad he got there as that horse is fantastic!! i can understand about rob hoesktra giving less experienced/ young horses and riders the opporunity but in my opinion there are other young inexperienced horses out there that could have replaced david mcpherson's horse and the same with scott brash. also michael whitaker hasnt been on the best of form this year and that horse hasnt performanced that brilliantly this year. theres been riders on nations cup teams this year that have performed better than some of the riders selected which may have been a better option. i just nope robert smith can keep up the good performances and hopefully get within a chance of getting an individual
 
I've watched ALL of the showjumping. The course on the second day was very tricky and really sorted the wheat from the chaff. Some very VERY good riders have run into difficulties and it's clear that the ones who are going to do well are the ones who have the skill AND the horsepower. I don't think England have the horses sadly. Will be rooting for them though :)
 
PapaFrita said:
I've watched ALL of the showjumping. The course on the second day was very tricky and really sorted the wheat from the chaff. Some very VERY good riders have run into difficulties and it's clear that the ones who are going to do well are the ones who have the skill AND the horsepower. I don't think England have the horses sadly. Will be rooting for them though :)
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Uhhumm Scott Brash is Scottish and from my area where we are very proud of him, I have to say that as this is a young lad who comes from a pretty normal background (Dad runs a building company) and doesn't have a fancy history or the backing that most as his level do I can only admire the fact that he has done as well as he has. I was chuffed to bits at how well he and Jacko did!
Anyway, no point in us being defeatist before we are beaten and as PF says we should root for them all the way!
 
nicnag said:
Uhhumm Scott Brash is Scottish and from my area where we are very proud of him, I have to say that as this is a young lad who comes from a pretty normal background (Dad runs a building company) and doesn't have a fancy history or the backing that most as his level do I can only admire the fact that he has done as well as he has. I was chuffed to bits at how well he and Jacko did!
Anyway, no point in us being defeatist before we are beaten and as PF says we should root for them all the way!
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Oops, my bad. Didn't know he was Scottish. Getting to WEG is NO mean feat and doing it without the millions some other nations have at their disposal is an even greater achievement. A medal is just the icing on the cake.
 
nicnag said:
Uhhumm Scott Brash is Scottish and from my area where we are very proud of him, I have to say that as this is a young lad who comes from a pretty normal background (Dad runs a building company) and doesn't have a fancy history or the backing that most as his level do I can only admire the fact that he has done as well as he has. I was chuffed to bits at how well he and Jacko did!
Anyway, no point in us being defeatist before we are beaten and as PF says we should root for them all the way!
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I completely agree. Scott jumped as well as many established Olympians and "big names" yesterday and based on that thoroughly deserves his place on the team IMO.

PapaFrita - It is the British team and not English! Apologies for highlighting that - it's a little chip we scots have on our shoulder :)
 
Having watched 2/3 of the team SJ yesterday, the track was catching so many riders out even some of the top riders from around the world. A number of European teams havent performed well i.e Holland.

Ignoring the speed class the British team was by no means a disaster, Robert had 1 time fault, Scott and David had 4 faults each, Michael was the most dissapointing with 9 faults.

WEG is also highlighting that some of the lesser nations having really been investing in good horse power, Japan had 2 riders jump clear, Saudi Arabia has the leading rider and a team in top 10. It is therefore highlighting how important it is for the British selectors to try and pick Nation Cup teams that will ensure our best horses stay in this country and not be sold abroad (where there are owners willing to spend lots of money).

The only way we as a nation we would not be moaning about the british team is if they all jumped clear rounds within the time.
 
lizzie_liz said:
Having watched 2/3 of the team SJ yesterday, the track was catching so many riders out even some of the top riders from around the world. A number of European teams havent performed well i.e Holland.

Ignoring the speed class the British team was by no means a disaster, Robert had 1 time fault, Scott and David had 4 faults each, Michael was the most dissapointing with 9 faults.

WEG is also highlighting that some of the lesser nations having really been investing in good horse power, Japan had 2 riders jump clear, Saudi Arabia has the leading rider and a team in top 10. It is therefore highlighting how important it is for the British selectors to try and pick Nation Cup teams that will ensure our best horses stay in this country and not be sold abroad (where there are owners willing to spend lots of money).

The only way we as a nation we would not be moaning about the british team is if they all jumped clear rounds within the time.
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Personally, i'm not moaning about their performance, but it is frustrating to have feet in water and time faults. Time faults seem to be a particular achilles heel of British riders....not just those in Kentucky. Not sure why...
 
I agree, the Eventers too went through a stage of getting a time faults. Good luck to all the riders jumping tonight, hopefully they will all jump a good round. It is still very close for the medals.
 
Faithkat said:
Agreed. With all due respect to our SJ-ers out, last night I did find myself asking the tv where certain other people were . . . . I can think of at least four I would have sent instead of a couple of them . . . . .
OK, Team GB might be more concerned about 2012 but this is the World Championships at the end of the day and the Olympics are two years away, and we all know how fragile the horse world can be with injuries and top horses being sold etc. Carpe diem!!!!!
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I so agree with you.

It is the world championships after all, it shouldnt have been used to test out some younger inexperienced combinations, they could have done that in Nations Cups etc over the next few years.

Send a team that has a chance of winning for goodness sake, its a damned expensive way of trying out a team!!!!!
 
Are we really the 9th best (or worst?) showjumping nation in the world? Personally I'm fed up hearing 'we dont have the horses'. Given the nations above us in the final order - many of whom fielded their strongest teams who aren't traditionally the strongest.
I doubt questions will be asked why we didn't, as some riders made the decision they were not putting themselves forward much earlier in the season.
This all has an uncomfortable similarity with the performance of the English football team earlier in the summer. How very sad.
 
I think its a real shame that whilst the eventers have been fabulous as have the dressagers who have put any demons behind them we still see our SJers are not getting results. Yes I know people will say there's not many fences between them, its a young team blah blah, but we came 9th FGS in a world equestrian games not some schmucky comp around the corner. How is this supposed to persuade the funding folks it worth investing money in SJing. Also its interesting that the only discipline the BBC showed nothing of was SJing, not even red button. Dressage results since Windsor have enabled them to become more media attractive, albeit limited, and that has to be because they've had some success.

I too get very bored of the ' we don't have the horses' argument, we have some fabulous horses, some maybe a bit shy of experience but you can't use that excuse forever.
 
British SJ is a disaster at the top level, no matter what team we send! I dont know what the answer is. As someone already has said, they are a bit like the English football team!
 
Whilst mainly agreeing with what you are all saying, I understood that the priority for the show jumpers this year was to ensure that they staying in the top Nations Cup League, which they have achieved.

With that it mind, I thought that it was felt that Peter Charles' horses had done quite enough for the year and needed a break. Tina Fletcher's horse was pulled out at the last minute and Peppermill was out of action as well.

With all that in mind, the team originally selected surely needed to have someone with experience at that level involved to help the less experienced riders - Michael Whitaker, who may not have performed to his usual high standards but will most certainly have given valuable help and advice to the other riders. I think he did up his game when the chips were down in the final round though?

Giving different riders experience on the teams is important to build forward and perhaps the GB team has in the past been guilty of relying too heavily on a very small pool of talent.

I feel that we have lost our way a little in the SJ teams and need to rebuild, which it seems we are doing? We should support the team and show a little patience and trust with the new set up.

After all, many questioned the selection of Pippa and Piggy for the eventing? Surely we must trust the selectors and I would imagine that their knowledge of individuals (horses and riders) and their experience of what makes a championship horse and rider is far greater than ours?
 
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Another musing of mine, based on nations cup performances etc a top 10 position is realistic but a medal position is unrealistic. Maybe people/supporters think we are better then we actually are and finishing 9th is a true reflection of our SJ abilities. British SJ does need rebuilt as for too long we have relied on the same people without results and choosing inexperienced horses/riders have produced no better or worse results.
 
With respect Woody, why in a world championship year would anybodies priority be the nations cup series? Perhaps when reflecting on the performance you should look at that of the Belgium team who clearly got their priorities the right wway round.
 
Bad attitude - by staying in the top level of Nations Cup for another year all the up and coming riders and horses will be able to gain top level experience in preparation for 2012. More important I think than doing well at a one off championships (even if it is a World one)

Rob Hoekstra has made no secret of the fact that he was using WEG as a learning curve to build for the future - and good on him. I agree with others who have said for far too long we have relied on too small a pool of jockeys (basically if your name was whittaker or Skelton you were in) meaning we have no strength in depth and no riders coming up through the levels to hold their own at the very top. British showjumping cannot continue to paper over the cracks by keeping on using the old names.

I do think the "we lack horse power" excuse has been overused and I do think SJ needs to look at the way the dressage riders have turned their situation round.
 
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