are there ANY horses that are 100% sound?

soulfull

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there always seems to be threads about what has gone wrong

just wondering if there are any out there that have NEVER had anything wrong with them?

If so what sort of life have they had?

breed height etc?
 
Define 100% sound! I could guarentee a number of people would tell me their horses were completely sound but I might disagree!

I prefer 100% sound for purpose!

Virtually all of the horses I have had over the years have had some sort of lameness from time to time. The more competitive I become the more a very subtle lameness impacts things.

Thinking back, the only horse I have had that I would consider 100% sound for purpose all the time was a 14.2hh arab pony I had on loan. Owner had it all it's life and it had done a fair amount of pony racing amongst other things. He was a real tough little nut. Absolutely mental though !!!
 
All of my homebreds have never had a problem with legs!

However I did wrap them in cotton wool and mainly showjumped on surfaces and dressaged. When BSJA'ing seriously they were banned from hunting or cross country!!

Controlled herd turnout (most were relatives!), but often in pairs when competing.

Lameness has not been an issue, however had splints, sweet itch, steroid induced laminitis, and COPD to deal with before you think I've had it too easy.

Edited to add breeding is Native x Hanoverian and Native x Selle Francais

I'd also agree soundness is in the eye of the beholder!
 
I don't think there is much logic to it. I always use Opposition Buzz as an example he has odd front feet and a jumping style that must tax the body yet has been a very sound horse! I have had conformationally correct horses that have been a disaster!
 
Blimey, nobody is going to answer that for fear of jinxing their horses!!

Yes, there are some extremely sound horses out there. Not saying more than that!!
 
I honestly think that at some point in the life of any horse, something will go wrong, especially in the lameness dept.

My 5 yo has as far as I know never had anything go wrong. But she is 5 and I have only had her a few months. I fully expect something will at some point go wrong !! The oldie has arthritis and palmar foot pain (navicular) syndrome.
 
Our 25yo pony has had v little time off in the 17 years we have had him. Once he had an abscess we only knew about when he was shod, as he wasn't lame at all. He is the big boss pony though, and a bit riggy so I think he doesn't show pain easily.

I don't think it is always down to confo either, just luck of the draw regarding many injuries/ailments.

Some horses are tough I think, and some are just big pansies :p
 
Difficult to define 'sound'

Currently you could call my boy sound as he is showing no clinical signs of lameness. If you had seen his recent scans you certainly wouldn't call him sound! :eek: Likewise he has shown no lameness with a fractures splint bone with bone chips.. Funny old horse :)

Until the recent tendon damage and excepting the kick to the splint, I would have said he has been totally sound during his career - only lower level stuff though, no idea how he would have stood up to training and competing at a higher level. Suspect his mismatched front feet may have had an impact, or maybe his incredibly long back :rolleyes:
 
As they say, life is a chronic condition. ;) Are there any people who are 100% sound?

I do think "functional" is a different deal, as many horses have weaknesses and injuries that don't interfere with their ability to keep doing their jobs, sometimes into very old age. There are too many variables - is a horse that stays sound if it doesn't jump more than 3' with good management?

Some horses just seem to have high pain tolerance and a mental make up that keeps them working even with issues. Others are just very well built so even when they do have a problem, the rest of them is strong enough to compensate for a weakness. I also don't think the sort of management people sometimes think *should* work, is what actually does. The soundest horse I've had raced at two and literally never had any significant time off until he was put down at 28 last summer. He technically had a spavin from racing and did have a check ligament injury, which healed unnaturally quickly so was he just a naturally tough horse? He was also medium sized, athletic and had good conformation - all bonuses. The one I have now is "hard luck" and gets everything going but is also huge, from a line of very sensitive horses, and not naturally careful.

Also - and this might be contentious - I do think perhaps we put a lot of emphasis on treating/fixing conditions now, whereas when treatment options were more limited, good horsemen took more care to prevent problems. (And, tbf, there were a lot more lame horses about!!)

And, like with people, horses live a lot longer now and are more likely to "survive" even quite serious issues. To be blunt, where I grew up, if they stopped working they rarely continued living. ;)

One area that's really interested me is shoeing. I seen a fair number of horses with not particularly good shoeing jobs (sometimes just poor, but other times very odd aggressive) who eventually go lame . . . are they intrinsically unsound horses? Others have aggressive treatment for one thing which leads to a problem somewhere else . . . again, inherently unsound or victims of circumstances? There are legions of similar influences, from footing to riding practices.

Also, we have so many more diagnostic options available now and vets are hardwired to keep looking until they find something. I suspect some horses that come right with significant vet intervention might also have come right with a year off, with no one any the wiser to the specifics of the problem. (I'm not saying lame/ill horses should be turned away or that intervention isn't a good idea, just that when it was more common practice to wait and see, a surprising number of horses DID come right.)

I think it is often very possible to make horses functional and comfortable to work without necessarily curing, or even covering up, what ails them.

Sorry, my specialist subject, "underperforming" horses! ;)

I don't think internet forums are a good sample thought - it's mostly people talking about problems! ;)
 
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My first horse - never had the vet to her in all the time I had her. No special management, turned out a lot, did a lot of roadwork with her. Horrendously cow hocked welsh sec d x Arab (brain of Arab, body of sec d!) built very "sat" on her hocks.
She has had injections for arthritis now into her hocks but must now be 20 and still going very strong
 
No comment on the present (touch wood and all that, although he has suffered an injury that meant box rest). But, I had a 15 hh TB that was never lame or sick or off work, apart from when he got a rope burn from getting his headcollar rope round his pastern. He hunted, evented and although I took care of him, I never had to miss any competition or anything else because he wasn't sound. Can't say that about other horses though. There was one that made a habit of getting a minor injury, loosing a shoe, a cough, etc. virtually every time I entered a competition. Needless to say, I got fed up with that and got rid, but I think he carried on in the same way.
 
My first pony. Had him for 25 years. He did games, hunted and generally bombed around at ninety miles an hour. He never spent a night in a stable, was never clipped or wore a rug. He only ever saw the vet in all those years to have his teeth done or vaccinations. He was never once unsound. Breed wise he was half Shetland and half god knows. He died of old age when he was about thirty.
 
As they say, life is a chronic condition. ;) Are there any people who are 100% sound?

I do think "functional" is a different deal, as many horses have weaknesses and injuries that don't interfere with their ability to keep doing their jobs, sometimes into very old age. There are too many variables - is a horse that stays sound if it doesn't jump more than 3' with good management?

Some horses just seem to have high pain tolerance and a mental make up that keeps them working even with issues. Others are just very well built so even when they do have a problem, the rest of them is strong enough to compensate for a weakness. I also don't think the sort of management people sometimes think *should* work, is what actually does. The soundest horse I've had raced at two and literally never had any significant time off until he was put down at 28 last summer. He technically had a spavin from racing and did have a check ligament injury, which healed unnaturally quickly so was he just a naturally tough horse? He was also medium sized, athletic and had good conformation - all bonuses. The one I have now is "hard luck" and gets everything going but is also huge, from a line of very sensitive horses, and not naturally careful.

Also - and this might be contentious - I do think perhaps we put a lot of emphasis on treating/fixing conditions now, whereas when treatment options were more limited, good horsemen took more care to prevent problems. (And, tbf, there were a lot more lame horses about!!)

And, like with people, horses live a lot longer now and are more likely to "survive" even quite serious issues. To be blunt, where I grew up, if they stopped working they rarely continued living. ;)

One area that's really interested me is shoeing. I seen a fair number of horses with not particularly good shoeing jobs (sometimes just poor, but other times very odd aggressive) who eventually go lame . . . are they intrinsically unsound horses? Others have aggressive treatment for one thing which leads to a problem somewhere else . . . again, inherently unsound or victims of circumstances? There are legions of similar influences, from footing to riding practices.

Also, we have so many more diagnostic options available now and vets are hardwired to keep looking until they find something. I suspect some horses that come right with significant vet intervention might also have come right with a year off, with no one any the wiser to the specifics of the problem. (I'm not saying lame/ill horses should be turned away or that intervention isn't a good idea, just that when it was more common practice to wait and see, a surprising number of horses DID come right.)

I think it is often very possible to make horses functional and comfortable to work without necessarily curing, or even covering up, what ails them.

Sorry, my specialist subject, "underperforming" horses! ;)

I don't think internet forums are a good sample thought - it's mostly people talking about problems! ;)

Thank you. Your response has helped me more than you could know :D
 
This is funny, as I was having this discussion the other day!

I have two, polar opposites. Ginger TB goes lame when he sees me coming, he is constantly lame. He is an ex racer, lots of registered breeding, racing papers etc etc. Will NOT stay sound.

Then I have another, little scrawny thing when he came to me, legs like matchsticks, he has no registered breeding, I know nothing about his past, and I'm not even sure what breed he is, ( suspect TB though ) and he is hard as nails! He jumped out the field once, galloped, and I mean galloped round the village roads for an hour, got him back, still completely sound. Touch wood, he is yet to go lame at all!

Its very odd!

I don't think there is particularly a pattern these days, I thin there are so many variables, that all sorts can happen with horses. Human intervention in their evolution has not helped. All the lame horses would have been eaten, and the naturally sound ones allowed to live and breed. Maybe we should control our breeding more, and not allow horses with soundness issues to breed?
 
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There are a few horses at the yard that have never needed the vet nor had any problems. These horses live out and are maybe ridden a couple of times a week, they are not serious competition horses so it maybe that the more natural way of life suits them.

I am guess most high level competition horses are under physical pressure like human athletes and you would expect them to possibly have health issues related to this, I would say very few professional human athletes would have not suffered from some injuries.
 
Of the 10 horses Ive had so far, only one ever had a lame day whilst with me. 6 of those I had for less than a year though (projects) so Im sure those dont count! The lame one was a Connie - my first pony. He was constantly riddled with hoof abscess' during the first year I had him but thereafter developed tough hooves and becaome capable of working unshod. He also had a month or so off following a serious heel wound but bar the first day was not unsound with that.
My other jumping pony I had from a novice 4yo to Grade A and never had a lame day. We did miss half a season due to Foot and Mouth and she got turned away from October to Christmas each year (as did all jumpers around here) and im sure that helped. The only visit the vet had to her bar vaccines was to suture an eyelid wound. My others have mostly been youngstock or breakers and have never had a lame step.

ETA - my jumpers also cross countried, did a bit of Pony Club eventing, a lot of jumping and were not wrapped up in cotton wool. n fact they lived out for the first few years - only coming in during floodsa and the worst thunder storms - and were neck and belly or trace clipped (and unrugged as our fields were far too muddy and wet for rugs!) . Not ideal, but as a teenager with non-horsey parents i didnt hve much choice. Plus we were always told stables were for horses not ponies! To be honest, they were the healthiest ponies Ive come across, never saw a case of laminitis, nor viral diseas/resp diseases in all those years. Abscess' however were our biggest problem due to mud.
 
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none here lol. my old boy had a long history of various ligament issues, youngster did his cruciate and current competition horse failed his flexions on the vetting although seems fine otherwise.
 
I think horses that look out for themselves are more likely to stay sound. Some are just mentally more stoic about pain. I always remember watching my chestnut and grey horse being shod and the grey fidgeted around with bare feet while the chestnut just stood still. The farrier pointed it out and mentioned the difference in their reactions and it bore out in their personalities too - the grey would be quite unmanly about any little niggle but the chestnut was and is a trooper and has been amazingly tough and sound all things considered. He does rather 'save himself' though - the extravagant horses that give it their all would be harder to keep sound in my opinion.
 
My first NH bred ex racehorse was the soundest horse ever!
He was tough as nails. He got mud rash he was sound, he got hit by a lorry with some force (I kid you not!) he stayed sound. I don't remember him having a lame day in his life - till he broke his pelvis in the field age 23 :( after having 15 years with him.

Unfortunately his brain was less sound :o He was brilliant or awful with very little in between;) but super talented and super sound :)
 
I think horses that look out for themselves are more likely to stay sound. Some are just mentally more stoic about pain. I always remember watching my chestnut and grey horse being shod and the grey fidgeted around with bare feet while the chestnut just stood still. The farrier pointed it out and mentioned the difference in their reactions and it bore out in their personalities too - the grey would be quite unmanly about any little niggle but the chestnut was and is a trooper and has been amazingly tough and sound all things considered. He does rather 'save himself' though - the extravagant horses that give it their all would be harder to keep sound in my opinion.

You're so right about the pain thing. My first flat bred ex racer was the biggest wimp ever. He over reached in the collecting ring at a county show once while warming up for the Foxhunter and he looked like he broke a leg. Stood there with it hanging and needed a fortnight off!

A friend had the most gorgeous stamp of a mare to look at and for conformation you would have picked her every time but she was known as "sicknote" as never seemed to be right.
 
My pointer is not sound. He is not lame or in pain or anything. He had an injury 2 years ago and was to be PTS but wasn't for some reason. He was given to my boss for free, though was going to slaughter :( However I wanted something to point to point, and he was galloping and jumping around the field like a loony all day long.
His hind tendon dislocated, i think, and has healed on the outside, so he doesn't have much flexion in, and it moves differently, also there is some fluid making flexing it difficult. So he kind of dishes of it in trot, but moves very nicely with his 3 other legs! (making him move a bit wonky). He is fine however galloping and jumping. He ran 7 times last season on all sorts of ground. His bad leg looks better after he is has ran or galloped as it 'tightens' up (just looks like a capped hock and a curb), and on his other 3 legs his never shown anything at all, even after running on firm ground, even when horse which have passed vetting etc show things.
 
I currently have 4 horses, all with fairly good conformation. All event at similar levels, have very similar exercise regimes and are all similar sort of horses. I have one who in the entire time I've had him (3 years now) he hasn't gone 'lame' once. We've had a few stiffness issues but I wouldn't class him as ever having gone 'lame'. Yet I have another horse who I would consider very similar in conformation who is guaranteed to have to w/d from at least 1 event each season due to soundness issues. He has nothing 'wrong' with him so to speak, he's just a bit more delicate! I do everything I possibly can as a precaution but he's pretty much guaranteed to somehow come out of the stable/field/whatever slightly unsound at some point.

I don't really think you can ever get a '100% sound' horse, even my horse mentioned above who is probably the most sound horse I've ever come across will have the odd stiff or slightly unsound day or so. I do blame this somewhat on the eventing but as Sarah_Jane mentioned, you get some pretty sound event horses right at the top of their game!

Eek after saying that I'm now nervous I'm going to have a lame horse tomorrow morning!
 
Thank you. Your response has helped me more than you could know :D

Oooh, now I'm curious. . . . ;)

To add, in my dim and distant youth, I remember the Manual of Horsemanship made a distinction between "unsound" and "lame". An unsound horse was one with a problem, such as a noticeable spavin, an old bow or a significant conformation fault, a lame horse was one that was, well, lame. :) I do think that distinction has been lost a bit but it was quite important way back when.
 
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Yep! We owned one - Cocktel (aka Baby) Never had a lame day in her life that we know of, sold her on and lost track when she was ~10. I suppose to be honest she never really did that much ridden, but used to throw herself up and down mountains quite vigorously when following loose.

She was 13.2hh, Chilean Criollo and as tough as old boots. The blacksmith used to complain about having to do her feet as they were so hard she was blunting his rasp!

Only issue she had was with her first foal - but then she probably shouldn't have found her self a 15.2hh b/f for her first go :cool: though she did love him! (the foal was totally unplanned & her idea).
 
Oooh, now I'm curious. . . . ;)

To add, in my dim and distant youth, I remember the Manual of Horsemanship made a distinction between "unsound" and "lame". An unsound horse was one with a problem, such as a noticeable spavin, an old bow or a significant conformation fault, a lame horse was one that was, well, lame. :) I do think that distinction has been lost a bit but it was quite important way back when.

Because you made me realise that it maybe possible to manage a condition and still do the things I want to do.
That sometimes just because they have 'x' doesn't mean they are a right off

I have RA and I manage it and still mostly do what I want to do, maybe not when I want but hey and you made me realise the same can be done with horses I hadn't ever really thought of that, I had just thought if it comes back Micah has KS or whatever that it would either be fixed or it wouldn't, not that I could perhaps 'manage it'

:D
 
I had a Connemara x TB pony which I hunted 5 days a fortnight as a teenager. He only had one day's lameness in the 15 years we had him (from a 5-year-old to his death) as a result of somersaulting over a five - barred gate which he'd endeavoured to jump from a standstill (with me on him). I was lame though.....
 
Because you made me realise that it maybe possible to manage a condition and still do the things I want to do.
That sometimes just because they have 'x' doesn't mean they are a right off

I have RA and I manage it and still mostly do what I want to do, maybe not when I want but hey and you made me realise the same can be done with horses I hadn't ever really thought of that, I had just thought if it comes back Micah has KS or whatever that it would either be fixed or it wouldn't, not that I could perhaps 'manage it'

:D

Oh, well done, me, then. :D

A succinct appraisal of the situation (succinct isn't really my strong suit!).

It seems to be a bit of a "dirty little secret" how managed top competition horses are. There was a horse on Canada's bronze medal dressage team in Seoul with spavins so large you could literally see them from 10' away. Lots of event horses have to be virtually wheeled out of their stables in the morning before they loosen up. I know jumpers with all sorts of things injected regularly. I realise it's not idea but don't make the mistake of thinking all those horses are "perfect". I would hazard a guess there are lots of horses doing quite high level competition that aren't in any way "100% sound".

On a less famous level I know all sorts of horses with quite serious problems still doing their jobs. A student of mine had a horse with diagnosed kissing spines that jumped for 5 years after the diagnosis. I had a horse diagnosed with navicular at 5 who primarily evented and was ridden well into his 20s.

I think I've mentioned before that I used to run a riding school staffed almost entirely by ex-show horses and/or horses inherited from a very intensive eventing educational institution. We did all sorts to keep them up and running but they were all functional, happy horses, many well into their 20s. Most jumped almost every day - always on good footing, not too big and WELL within what they were capable of - and worked 6 days a week, often doing one "easy" and one "hard" lesson. We also had a number of "lease" horses that were there primarily because they wouldn't vet but were all regularly leased out to show with riders who had graduated from the school.

As to all the horses that never took a lame step, the flip side is, because of that, no one ever investigated either. Perhaps if you'd stuck them in a MRI machine they would have lit up like Christmas trees? :D My horse with the hock spavin never had a lame day on it and never had it treated (even under heavy sedation that would have been suicidal for the vet and because he was never lame, it never seemed worth the risk) although he did drag his toe a bit before he warmed up when he was in his teens so he retired to a dressage career. Eventually his flying changes came apart a bit so he dropped down a level with a less experienced rider but again, never actually took a lame step. Lame or sound?

A surprising number of horses can be kept functional with just changes in routine, at least initially. I'm not in the habit of discussing business on the internet but I do have a horse on my slate right now that looked at least that bad a few months ago and is now apparently the soundest he's ever been, with ONLY changes to his management and riding. I have no doubt he'll need more help in the future but right now he continues to improve so we'll stick with the program.

All I'm saying, is don't assume a worrying diagnosis is necessarily a disaster. I do try not to be the patron saint of lost causes, but there are lots of things you can do to improve situations you won't ever be able to cure.
 
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Oh, well done, me, then. :D

A succinct appraisal of the situation (succinct isn't really my strong suit!).

It seems to be a bit of a "dirty little secret" how managed top competition horses are. There was a horse on Canada's bronze medal dressage team in Seoul with spavins so large you could literally see them from 10' away. Lots of event horses have to be virtually wheeled out of their stables in the morning before they loosen up. I know jumpers with all sorts of things injected regularly. I realise it's not idea but don't make the mistake of thinking all those horses are "perfect". I would hazard a guess there are lots of horses doing quite high level competition that aren't in any way "100% sound".

On a less famous level I know all sorts of horses with quite serious problems still doing their jobs. A student of mine had a horse with diagnosed kissing spines that jumped for 5 years after the diagnosis. I had a horse diagnosed with navicular at 5 who primarily evented and was ridden well into his 20s.

I think I've mentioned before that I used to run a riding school staffed almost entirely by ex-show horses and/or horses inherited from a very intensive eventing educational institution. We did all sorts to keep them up and running but they were all functional, happy horses, many well into their 20s. Most jumped almost every day - always on good footing, not too big and WELL within what they were capable of - and worked 6 days a week, often doing one "easy" and one "hard" lesson. We also had a number of "lease" horses that were there primarily because they wouldn't vet but were all regularly leased out to show with riders who had graduated from the school.

As to all the horses that never took a lame step, the flip side is, because of that, no one ever investigated either. Perhaps if you'd stuck them in a MRI machine they would have lit up like Christmas trees? :D My horse with the hock spavin never had a lame day on it and never had it treated (even under heavy sedation that would have been suicidal for the vet and because he was never lame, it never seemed worth the risk) although he did drag his toe a bit before he warmed up when he was in his teens so he retired to a dressage career. Eventually his flying changes came apart a bit so he dropped down a level with a less experienced rider but again, never actually took a lame step. Lame or sound?

A surprising number of horses can be kept functional with just changes in routine, at least initially. I'm not in the habit of discussing business on the internet but I do have a horse on my slate right now that looked at least that bad a few months ago and is now apparently the soundest he's ever been, with ONLY changes to his management and riding. I have no doubt he'll need more help in the future but right now he continues to improve so we'll stick with the program.

All I'm saying, is don't assume a worrying diagnosis is necessarily a disaster. I do try not to be the patron saint of lost causes, but there are lots of things you can do to improve situations you won't ever be able to cure.

:D thanks
 
Our 14hh Irish cob has never had a day lame, injured or ill in the 3 1/2yrs we've had him. Hes worked pretty hard too - 6 days a week with at least one of those days SJ (upto about 1.10m), dressaging, eventing or PC.

Don't know if its a pony thing & they are just hardier, as the last pony we had was the same & I've never owned a horse!! Am actually dreading the move onto horses next year!!!
 
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