Are there any saddler's or saddle makers on here? Differences in trees and stirrup bar settings help needed please?

[Fifty Bales of Hay]

Hello

Could anyone tell me the difference between a dressage tree and a GP tree in a saddle please? Particularly where the stirrup bars are fitted and whether they are further back placed, as well as longer dressage bars on a dressage saddle?

What is the effect of fitting dressage stirrup bars to a GP tree, and will they be as far back as say if they were fitted to a dressage tree? Would a rider still be able to sit in a "dressage position" with this done, or would it be more difficult?

Thanks.

 

[sbloom]

We say the stirrup bars are set back, in fact they're not, they're longer. So, they're all attached to tree points at the front but extend to different places, with jump saddles having the most forward bars, then GPs, then dressage. The front curve that your stirrup leather pushes up against is the bit that has the different location. A dressage bar fitted to a GP tree will be further back, however, whether this works well enough for you depends on many other factors, the biggest one being where the deepest part of the tree is, and that isn't just down to tree shape but also to how a particular saddle maker webs and strains the seat on the tree.

The saddle tree is, on paper, irrelevant. Way before I became a fitter I had a dressage saddle built on a GP tree because I wanted a flatter more open seat than the range offered in its standard trees (it was a flexi panel saddle so the tree had less influence on the fit on the horse).

What places you in the correct position isn't just about the bar, it is about the tree but that is related more to your pelvic conformation than it is about whether it's a dressage or GP tree, some brands, mine included, have both types of saddle made on the same tree. In fact the range I fit only has one dedicated dressage tree, the other saddle models are all made on the same range of three trees. The flap then has to work too, the cut and the block placement being more important than length.

 

[cremedemonthe]

There are so many variables in play here, for instance the maker of the tree will have their own ideas on measurements and styles for dressage and GP.
It is very hard to know what will fit what and in the past I have just worked on saddles and worked out what would fit and where as I went along.
As a rule the stirrup bars on a dressage will be slightly further back because the points of the tree are further back as well as being longer and the stirrup bars are often (but not always) longer too... Here are two trees one is a GP, one a Dressage. You can see how and where they vary. The bars on these are very similar in size and I am not convinced this manufacturer of the trees is using different bars on each style of saddle (cost cutting)!
There is alot to consider changing saddle parts around. A regular riding school in Surrey I used to go to to work on site repairing their saddlery one day gave me 3 old saddles with various serviceable parts and said do your best and build a good one from all 3. I did, which then thoroughly confused the girls who worked there as they didn't recognise the saddle in the tack room when they went to tack up!
I was lucky al the parts fitted but it could so easily go wrong too. trial and error.
Oz

 

[sbloom]

Oz knows his stuff and will have seen way more saddles than I, and of course worked on them, built them etc etc, I am only a fitter . I will add though that we have one tree that has especially swept back points which we use in all types of saddle, so again, it's not always dressage saddle specific.

 

[cremedemonthe]

Thanks Steph, I do feel you are way ahead of me now. Being old school I have old school techniques and values and often read your posts and learn something,
I'm officially classed as an antique now.
Oz

 

[Fifty Bales of Hay]

Thank you both for your replies. That explains it a bit more to me. There isn't a huge amount of difference is there in the dressage stirrup bars - what about adjustable dressage bars are they just even longer?

 

[sbloom]

Thanks Steph, I do feel you are way ahead of me now. Being old school I have old school techniques and values and often read your posts and learn something,
I'm officially classed as an antique now.
Oz

We learn from each other, open minded is the best way to be

I have replied to your PM AMP, you're best asking a fitter that works with them, there are different kinds and, like I said above, it depends what issue you're trying to solve, some people think they're the be all and end all but they're really not. They also can be bulky and temperamental but that depends on the bar/saddle brand.