Are there some horses that just cannot work "correctly"?

[LauraElise]

Random musings whilst bored at work. Are there some horses that just cannot physically work in an "outline" despite correct schooling?

Before I left the UK I was riding a friends 13 year old, Heinz cob ex riding school mare. She has never in her life been worked correctly and motorbikes round with her nose sticking out or head in the air. She is very short through the neck and very thick around her throat (can't describe it better!) and she seems to struggle to bend from the poll. I spent 2 or 3 weeks trying to get something resembling a contact from her. I rode transitions, tried to improve the bend, got her moving off my leg and....nothing. I could effect no improvement at all. Nose still poking out, mouth like steel.

Said friend has now started having lessons from a very good instructor who also cannot do a thing to get correct work or a contact. They have resorted to trying a double bridle, no good mouth too small, and draw reins. DR worked whilst on, in that mares head could be pulled into a false outline, once off, straight back to poky nose. Friend will not use them again quite rightly.

Now my friend ADORES this mare and really couldn't care less whether she ever goes "properly". But it got me to thinking, are there some horses that for conformational issues or otherwise are just incapable of working properly, ever?

 

[Wagtail]

Some horses that are very thick through the throat area cannot flex comfortably, and putting her in draw reins must have been extremely painful! However, in over 30 years I have only come across one horse that I couldn't get to work correctly within a few minutes. This horse was a thick set cob. I only had one 15 minute session on him (hopped on during his owner'sschooling session) and he did improve, but looking at his conformation I could see that it was genuinely difficult for him. I think such horses are extremly rare however.

 

[LauraElise]

I think with her it is a conformational issue as even if on the ground you "push" her nose towards her chest gently there is very little flex there. She really is very thick around her throat and neck is very short. But, as you say Wagtail, I thought this must be very unusual and was interested to see if others had any experience of the same thing?

 

[Kat]

Working correctly isn't about where her head is, it is about what her back and hocks are doing. Her confirmation may make it difficult to have her head vertical but if she is working from behind and lifting her back that shouldn't matter too much. Head in front of the vertical is entirely acceptable for dressage providing the quarters are engaged.

I'd suggest lots of transitions and bending without worrying about the head carriage and when the quarters are engaged the horse will lower it's head even if it can't flex much from the poll. Working correctly will help build the right muscles too and improve things (she probably has too much muscle under the neck and not enough on top at the moment).

Don't get fixed on the head carriage, it is the last piece of the jigsaw.

 

[kickonchaps]

My old mare had a very long back and a long neck, and was built higher behind than in front. She had a lethal jump and fantastic paces, but she'd spent a long time just hacking with someone and had never really been schooled properly so when we we got her aged 8 she'd spent her whole life working upside down.

You could get her to tuck her nose in and imitate going on the bit but she'd nod the whole time and she was never truly on the bit. I wasn't the best rider myself, but much better people than me got on her and had the same problem - as soon as you softened the hand her head came up again, so the only way to keep it down was to basically winch her head in and brace yourself to hold on tight... which I think you'll agree wasn't really worth it just to get her nose in the right place, never mind the rest of her!!

We spent 3 years trying everything to no avail and in the end gave up! A dressage pro actually told us it wasn't that she couldn't, it was that her conformation was against her and for whatever reason her attitude stank, and that wasn't gonna change!! She was always on red alert anyway, could never switch off and chill and I think asking her to put her head down was just too much. Didn't matter to me, I loved her to pieces and we had a brilliant time before she was pts with an injury. Worth mentioning that despite going round with her head in the air you could still get a dressage test in the low 40s out of her, which reflects how loose and rhythmical her paces were!

ETA I agree with KK above - this mare was built downhill and on the forehand, which is exactly why getting her head in the right place was a waste of time - it didn't reflect the fact that her back end was always trailing

 

[Oliver12]

Working correctly isn't about where her head is, it is about what her back and hocks are doing. Her confirmation may make it difficult to have her head vertical but if she is working from behind and lifting her back that shouldn't matter too much. Head in front of the vertical is entirely acceptable for dressage providing the quarters are engaged.

I'd suggest lots of transitions and bending without worrying about the head carriage and when the quarters are engaged the horse will lower it's head even if it can't flex much from the poll. Working correctly will help build the right muscles too and improve things (she probably has too much muscle under the neck and not enough on top at the moment).

Don't get fixed on the head carriage, it is the last piece of the jigsaw.

Agree entirely with this. My Irish Draught hasn't got a brilliant conformation. It has taken me years to get him working properly. Nose in front of the vertical is correct anyway. I can't stand seeing horses careering around the manege with their head between their legs.

A pelham is very useful for teaching horses to flex gently. I find that cobs especially love the pelham bit and in fact it suits them much more than a jointed bit. Also interesting is the fact that their is an accupressure spot underneath the jaw at the same place where the curb chain sits. My horse loves the pelham.

 

[LauraElise]

Working correctly isn't about where her head is, it is about what her back and hocks are doing. Her conformation may make it difficult to have her head vertical but if she is working from behind and lifting her back that shouldn't matter too much. Head in front of the vertical is entirely acceptable for dressage providing the quarters are engaged.

I'd suggest lots of transitions and bending without worrying about the head carriage and when the quarters are engaged the horse will lower it's head even if it can't flex much from the poll. Working correctly will help build the right muscles too and improve things (she probably has too much muscle under the neck and not enough on top at the moment).

Don't get fixed on the head carriage, it is the last piece of the jigsaw.

I'm not fixed on the head carriage but to me it is part of a horse working correctly and accepting a soft, even contact. I don't like to see overbent horses with their heads pinned down either! I suppose I was interested in whether it was her conformation that meant she couldn't flex from the poll. This is despite endless transitions and bending with much better riders than me! Fact is this mare wasn't engaged behind or over her back and her head was not just in front of the vertical it was poking right out! She has done dressage but given up as comments were always "horse not accepting of contact" etc. She gets the same when out showing hence my friend having lessons to improve her way of going. My mate has now accepted she just cannot do what is being asked of her.

That is interesting about the pelham, may suggest that, thank you.

 

[Kat]

I think with continued work and commitment she will eventually get there, but will find it more difficult. The head will come last though. She needs to learn to use her back and lift her shoulder before her head comes into the right place though. She will need to build new muscles as her neck is probably "upside down" and she will need to be happy in her mouth.

It might be worth learning some stretches with her and doing some lunging, especially over poles and possibly using a training aid. I'd look at her bit too and maybe even consider bless for a while.

Oh and feed her hay from the floor as Hay nets can encourage incorrect muscles in the neck.

 

[LauraElise]

Thanks KK. I don't think her owner is really bothered enough to put the hard work in, and after all why should she as they are both happy enough having fun out hacking with the occasional local show thrown in. I just wonder, with the right work for long enough, if she could change but guess I will never know!