Are these rules ott.. (livery yard)

jhoward

jhoward

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theres a big hoo har a tthe yard im on about the rules..

it is a diy yard i may add..

we are not allowed to.

ride each others horses

help each other out

bring in our own instructors.

the reason for these rules is that by doing any of the above we are taking money away from the yad as they are paid services, ie turning out etc.

if we do any of the above for each other the yard will still charge the person it was dne for.. so if i turnout bobs horse.. bob will still get charged 1.50 plus vat.

are these rules to much for a diy yard.. or are they just normal rules?
 
Way OTT I would leave - sharpish, what a rubbish set of rules, I am at a DIY yard we have a YM who does services for those that want them, but there is no problem if liveries want to help each other out or ride each others horses.
 
I think they are abit too much. When i had a horse on diy we could ride each others and help each other out. You had to pay for the hire of the school if you brought your own instructor in.
 
I don't like any of those rules.

I certainly wouldn't have somebody dictate to me who I had to instruct me, that in itself would either make me leave, or stop me moving onto the yard.

If YO wants to maximise her income, I suggest she changes to a part/full livery only yard.
 
I've never heard of this before - as long as you are not paying for any of your friends services it sounds way over the top. Helping each other out is part and parcel of DIY. I could understand if you were paying them instead of the yard.

My old yard wouldn't let other instructors on the yard which to some extent I could understand however this was one of the reasons I left. Some yards just charge a small fee for exclusive use of the school which is reasonable imo.
 
very over the top - we also have livery yard that offers assisted services - but theres no way they would ever consider charging us if we did each others horses - i would leave there
 
It is the same at my friends yard, I left there because it was just unworkable for me, as yard manager could not handle my horse for some strange reason. Lessons/farrier had to be booked through her too and she will cancel them at whim so not a great situation. You are a DIY, the clue is in the name, so I believe it is up to DIYers to sort their own arrangements out whether that be with a friend or with the YM.
 
Having been on both sides of this, you are Do It Yourself, not another livery do it for you, the yard owner has to make some money somewhere, have been on a yard where if you cant Do It Yourself, then you have to pay, it added the bill up so much each month I went on part livery as cheaper. So whilst I think it is a bit much, I can also understand where the YO is coming from. Also from a YO insurance point of view, if x takes your horse out and an accident happens then the YO can/could still be held liable, why tshould they have added insurance premuims when they supply a DIY service. If the YO takes your horse out and has the accident then at least from their view there is a good reason to claim on their policy and that is what their insurance is for.

Now as a YO and realising all the overheads that go to make running a yard, let alone the time and hardwork and try to earn enough for the day to day maintenance and care let alone trying to make a living alone I only do assisted DIY, to stop complications extras onto bills each month etc it is a flat charge per month, where apart from mucking out I turn in and out, change rugs etc.

It still amazes me that people expect for £30 a week or less a 12 x 12 stable, safe and well fenced grazing, arenas that cost the earth to install, full insurance and business rates paid, electricity and water (with what these rates are each month), when you can not rent a 12 x 12 room in a house for this amount, or even a garage to store a car.

YO do have to make a living so whilst a bit draconian I can fully understand where the YO is coming from. Unfair no but maybe a better solution is to get a set weekly fee included in the livery for services you may need to use.
 
Our YO is talking of putting cameras up everywhere. Now I can understand for security purposes having camera on entrances but they want to put them on the arena (which they admitted was mainly to check who is not picking up poos) and a couple on the inside of the yard to cover all of the yard. It's received mixed responses from the liveries.
 
I have cameras everywhere, mostly for security, but when one certain livery shouted and screamed about the tackroom door being unlocked, it was great to just wind back the CCTV and look who last went in their the previous day and last person out who didnt lock it. She soon shut up when it was actually her that had left it open, but no apology!

As for spying on not poo picking the arena, how much does an arena cost to put in and maintain, you wouldnt get in a friends car and leave drinks cans, uneaten food etc in their car, why on earth would you treat someone elses property with such contempt when they are offering you a very expensive luxury.
 
Lo1000 said:
Our YO is talking of putting cameras up everywhere. Now I can understand for security purposes having camera on entrances but they want to put them on the arena (which they admitted was mainly to check who is not picking up poos) and a couple on the inside of the yard to cover all of the yard. It's received mixed responses from the liveries.
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I am afraid I love the idea of this not to spy on people but to ensure the safety of my horses and tack.
 
I'm completely on the fence on this one. On one hand I like the security aspect but I don't know about all over the yard. We are only a small yard of 16 stables and don't keep any tack onsite. YO doesn't really have much to do with us until she has a grievance so I can just see her watching it obsessively and picking on tiny little things. I want to be relaxed at the yard and not having to watch over my shoulder constantly.
 
At my previous yard (DIY and 5 day pw part livery) you werent allowed to get other liveries to help, YO had to do it and charge, unless at weekends and bank hols cos then she wasnt offering services. Got tricky with sharers covering everything, in the end you also werent allowed more than one sharer and the sharer not more than 2 or 3 days a week, which I think went a bit too far!

But I could never argue with the facts behind the rules which was YOs by and large dont make much money from this game and in order to even make that there are a certain level of charges they need. So while you could argue this policy isnt fair, if it went they would have to replace the ££ from somewhere, and something else would go up. Also they have the duty of care, so some yards say you can have help but only other liveries not your boyfriends sister whos never seen a horse before or worse doesnt turn up and horse is left unfed/watered.

I think its quite common that poor DIYers end up moving to part livery when they realise the extras are adding up to more than P/L!

But I do think it would be better to allow the helping but have the DIY cost a bit higher to cover the lost income, so that it doesnt penalise people eg if they are ill and having to have lots of favours. But then maybe people wont come to the yard as it doesnt look cheap enough.
 
I suppose it depends on whether these rules were in place when you first went to the yard - if they were then really you can't complain too much. However, if the YO has recently introduced those rules I can understand the indignation, because presumably people have budgeted for keeping their horses on the basis that they can use their friends to help out.
 
On my yard we are not allowed to turn each others horses out - except on weekends. I think it's quite reasonable - as it does bring extra revenue in for the yard.
 
It does sound a bit OTT to me, surely DIY is just that and is aimed at those of us who cant afford p/l fees or just want to do more with their own horse. I have been at several DIY yards and at none of them did the YO ever get involved with the horse care, just general maintenance on the yard and land. All the DIYers helped each other as and when needed, no money changed hands, we just returned the favours. It does sound as if this yard would be better for those who want part livery and are prepared to pay for regular help. I dont know all the ins and outs re insurance regarding instructors and riding each others horses but would have thought as long as it is done by mutual agreement and all owners have their own insurance in place there wouldnt be an issue (stand to be corrected on that one though).
 
I suppose the yard needs revenue to exist , but I wouldn't want to be somewhere where the rules were so harsh. I guess their answer would be to take it or leave it, and the laws of supply and demand will dictate whether you have much choice . Good luck!
 
I think those rules are a bit harsh, especially if you are already in the habit of helping each other out. I used to be at a place where you couldnt bring in your own instructor, the owner was an instructor and you had to have your lessons through him if you wanted them, we were allowed to T/O, feed etc each others horses though.
 
The rules do sound quite excessive, but ultimately there is probably little you can do apart from voice your concerns, if a number of you feel the same way it might help influence the yard management.
 
QR; Gosh, no way. I would move sharpish. How dreadful to be dictated to like that. I wouldn't want to be told who I had to have lessons with, your not in a bloody riding school. Also, being forced to use their 'service' and not of a friends to is a bit steep, and I suppose if you cannot ride they to can provide that service? Yeah, i bet they do.

No way, I think they are going about earning money the wrong way as i cannot imagine who would put up with that.

x
 
Yes they're OTT. It is your horse. You rent the stable and facilities. It is entirely up to you who rides your horse, handles your horse and instructs you and your horse. Bl**dy YOs. :rolleyes:
 
Sorry I don't agree with scally at all....

DIY has always been do it yourself yes but also incompasses if you can't then make your own arrangements as well..

at our yard there are 3 of us that regularly help each other out...I had a text on saturday fron one of the girls saying have a day off with hubby we will do horsey for you today....to which I was of coruse ever so grateful...but by the same token she is off to tomoorow for a day out so i have given her the day off otherwise you can't have a life outside the stables...

My Yo actually encourages helping each other out...and the YO herself helps out for no fee...she just likes a happy yard where everyone helps each other and everyone is happy...she even sugests we ride her horses if we want to.

So sorry scally your post sounds like all YO are just out for money and if they impliment the rules for DIY people as stated in this thread then in my opinion it's all about the money..money...money and not about a freindly enviroment to be in or sorting your own horse out.

I would leave no question..the rules are totally money driven and proposterous.
 
Sorry i would like to add..what happens when they are short staffed....I've seen this where people are off sick and there are not enough people to look after all the horses...some not fed or turned out til the afternoon...and they have to ask the DIYers who are busey attending their own horses to help out!!!
 
At all my yards we have been able to trade favours with other liveries and I would expect to be able to do this with any DIY arrangement. I was on one yard where you weren't allowed your own instructors but as it was also a riding school,and they had a couple of excellent instructors that seemed fair enough.

If you knew the rules before you moved there you haven't really got grounds to complain, but if they have been imposed since I wouldn't be happy!
 
Jaynedoc, it is certainly not ALL about money, however I have to make money out of the yard to pay the bills.

Business rates are £12 per stable per week, Insurance is £120 per month, water and electricity average £90 a month. I run an above board business, I am not someone who has a few stables and doesnt pay business rates or insurance..

Liveries want every possible facility going (the more facilities the higher the business rates go), post and rail fencing, tons of grazing a safe happy envionment to keep their horses. I have a duty of care to all horses and people on my premises, some rules on the yard are dictated by my insurance policy. Anyone here can have their own instructor however, I have to see a copy of their insurance policy before they teach, as it is my responsibility to make sure they are adequately insured.

I have been on DIY yards in the past where, horses are left for 24 hours, as they thought another livery was doing them, no body bothering to do water troughs in fields. Horses getting loose as "helper" was not capable of managing other liveries horses, the arguments about how much one livery helps another out, and does not get favours back in return. One horse going mad in the field, as noone thought to bring them in, as its not their horse.

I run a professional yard, and by doing it myself if the livery cannot I know the welfare of that horse is taken care of. There is no shock on the livery bill at the end of each month with extras as it is included in the rate, it also means that if something unforeseen happens they can call me, and know there horse is sorted and fine for the day. They know that their horses are checked last thing at night and extra hay given if needed. If I really wanted to be money grabbing I could have pay metres on the school lights, on the walker, I could charge for each little thing I do for them, charge for cleaning up the mess people leave, but that is part an parcel of running a yard, and no there is no way I can do DIY livery for £25 a week per stable and provide all of this. You pay for the service and facilities you get.

The best thing that can ever happen is that all livery yards are regulated, and then we will be on an even playing field, but at present whilst there are those do it all above board are losing out to people who just rent a stable out and pay no insurance or business rates will be able to charge very little as it goes in their back pocket.

Whiles Ops yard is making rules and as said some are a bit draconian, I can see both sides of the coin.
 
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