Are these rules ott.. (livery yard)

I've heard of the 'no other instructors' rule many times before....and the YO's ALWAYS say it is down to their insurance not allowing it - rubbish IMO, as scally says above, all the YO has to do is check the 'outside' instructor is properly insured...
as for not letting friends help each other out....Well, yet another yard who thinks only with their pocket...
I do understand that everyone has to earn a living, but certain things seem to be creeping in that are unworkable, unfair and extreme..
No offence to livery yard owners - there are great one's out there as well as bad...but there has to be some sense to all rules...
 
Rotchana said:
These rules are defined by YO's pocket, rather than the creation of a happy, healthy trusting yard. Leave.
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I dont agree the one follows the other, without the YO making a basic living out of the yard, there is no yard. What I mean is, a yard isnt and cant be a charity, it IS a business!Well it is if it is properly run and they have to pay horrendous business rates, muck removal costs in many cases, metered water rates, insurance etc.

I didnt like any of those restrictions similar to the OP at my old yard, but through helping the YO with a business rates appeal I got to know just how little profit there is in running a yard (and this was a good yard).

Ideally these rules wouldnt exist and the DIY rate would be more realistic to allow for it, but I bet loads of people would walk away and not bring their horses to the yard cos it was too much £££ per week/month.
 
I can understand the turn-out one from the pov of the yard owner. Although I wouldn't want to be on a yard where I couldn't share if I wanted it makes sense from a business perspective. However, I would be very annoyed to have who could ride my horse dictated to me, that's no business of the YO's.
 
Ridiculous, who are they to say who can ride your horse, they may offer exercising as a service but you may not think they are competent.
Also for DIY yards this is not the norm, I was at a yard for a very short space of time where they implemented the 'cant muckout each others horses' which didn't effect me but I don't think it is ok as some people were on limited budgets and would help each other out if on holiday or ill ect.
I also think if they are that concerned with services they should make it a part or full livery yard.
Also what if you were to have a sharer, surely they couldn't say anything about that.
I definitely wouldn't sign a contract on that yard can't believe they actually charge for services they haven't carried out.
 
Definitely OTT. Our yard has one full livery and about 30 DIYs. We're allowed to ride each others horses, and help out. I look after a friend's horse 5 mornings a week because she can't make it to the yard, she pays me a small amount but if she paid the staff to do it it would cost her over £150 extra each month!
 
thhe rules were bought in my the new ym. the instructor one i think was already in place.

personally whilst i do see why they are there, i think they are ott but my view is as much as i dont want to be a yard hopper if they start causing me to much of an issue i will just move.

the lesson thing isnt to much of a biggy as i have a box so can go out of the yard if i really feel the need.

we have a yard meeting due to happen ... i said im going away and not getting involved lol!
 
yeah thats over the top, i'd never get by without my friends helping me do my two and i do hers alternatively diy means DO IT YOURSELF no staff charging you for turning out etc unless for the vet or the farrier!
 
I would leave! I used to be at a DIY yard that did this. As a result they lost all their DIY liveries and ended up with very limited full liveries! Penny pinching yard owners are a nightmare!
 
scally said:
As for spying on not poo picking the arena, how much does an arena cost to put in and maintain, you wouldnt get in a friends car and leave drinks cans, uneaten food etc in their car, why on earth would you treat someone elses property with such contempt when they are offering you a very expensive luxury.
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Please can you tell this to our liveries and all the people that hire our arena!
 
For me this is OTT, I wouldn't go to a yard with these rules and would be livid if they were introduced after I had moved to a yard.

The only one of those I would accept, begrudgingly, is no instructors on site
 
ihatework said:
For me this is OTT, I wouldn't go to a yard with these rules and would be livid if they were introduced after I had moved to a yard.

The only one of those I would accept, begrudgingly, is no instructors on site
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to be honest my only personal real moa is that no one actually told me the damn rules! i heard about these from another livery!
 
We can help each other out, turnout bring in etc., as long as no money changes hands, if it is found you are paying or receiving payment for doing these things both parties will be given notice to leave.
 
Those rules are ridiculous. I can see why they are doing that so they earn as much money as possible but its unfair. I would change yards asap. I know DIY yards are a business just like all yards but those sorts of rules would make me not enjoy owning a horse as much. I dont like feeling that i'm simply there to be made money out of - if that makes any sense.
 
ALL to do with health and safety. have your other DIY's got professional commercial liability? full commercial insurance? probably not. if an accident occurs then the YO is liable!! i run a part/full livery yard. i welcome outside instructors (but they have to lodge a copy of their professional insurance with me - to comply with MY professional insurance). i dont think your YO is being out of order, as insurance requirements have changed. trading favours is still commercial. sorry.
 
My old yard had these rules. Except you could ride another horse for one offs but if it was for exercise cause the owner couldn't then it wouldn't be accepted.

It was frustrating (and expensive) but thats what I bought into when I moved on to the yard so couldn't argue. If the rules had been imposed after being there for a while I would not have been happy.

If you don't agree with it you move. That simple. ;)

I did eventually move, but not because of being charged for each addition but because I moved 60 miles away! I stayed on my old yard for 8 years! ;)
 
Have been on my DIY yard for 30 years (is this a record?) we have always helped each other out, when our yard owners was seriously ill last year two of us ran the place. If it bugs you leave if you can live with it ok.
 
I can see the point of the YO basically covering their backs. But i dont think i could be at a yard with such rigid rules.
I really think i am the luckiest person ever with my yard. My YO doesnt do DIY livery...but does part livery.
She doesnt charge per job but has 3 set price brackets....one for schooling/full livery. One for part livery but its a bit more because if you go away or cant make then she wont ever charge extra to do the horse on a full livery basis. And then there is what i am on the part livery which works out way cheaper than most DIY's as it includes all bedding and haylidge.
I go once a day and muck out. She does all of the turn out and bringing in. All of the rug changes re turning out etc. feeds in the morning or night depending on when you are going up to the yard. I have ad lib use of an amazing school. Im very lucky as she is one of the best instructors in the area so prob wouldnt want to use anyone else. She is onsite and even in the evening if you have a problem she encourages us to go to her for help. I can use any vet or farrier i want. I can go whenever i like and stay as late as i like. We could ride each others horses if we want.
As long as you remove poo from the school and lock the tackroom it is the perfect place.
Although as people are saying.....dont forget at the end of the day....it is their property, so people should respect that. Alot of the times, not only for security reasons is it good tohave CCTV....but as a YO i would want to know who wasnt playing by the rules.

At the end of the day, there are several livery yards about, make sure you are happy and your horse is happy.
 
scally said:
Having been on both sides of this, you are Do It Yourself, not another livery do it for you, the yard owner has to make some money somewhere, have been on a yard where if you cant Do It Yourself, then you have to pay, it added the bill up so much each month I went on part livery as cheaper. So whilst I think it is a bit much, I can also understand where the YO is coming from. Also from a YO insurance point of view, if x takes your horse out and an accident happens then the YO can/could still be held liable, why tshould they have added insurance premuims when they supply a DIY service. If the YO takes your horse out and has the accident then at least from their view there is a good reason to claim on their policy and that is what their insurance is for.

Now as a YO and realising all the overheads that go to make running a yard, let alone the time and hardwork and try to earn enough for the day to day maintenance and care let alone trying to make a living alone I only do assisted DIY, to stop complications extras onto bills each month etc it is a flat charge per month, where apart from mucking out I turn in and out, change rugs etc.

It still amazes me that people expect for £30 a week or less a 12 x 12 stable, safe and well fenced grazing, arenas that cost the earth to install, full insurance and business rates paid, electricity and water (with what these rates are each month), when you can not rent a 12 x 12 room in a house for this amount, or even a garage to store a car.

YO do have to make a living so whilst a bit draconian I can fully understand where the YO is coming from. Unfair no but maybe a better solution is to get a set weekly fee included in the livery for services you may need to use.
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I actually agree with this.
 
Rotchana said:
These rules are defined by YO's pocket, rather than the creation of a happy, healthy trusting yard. Leave.
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Couldn't agree more :( Also, as to the yard that is installing security cameras, i think thats a great idea for the tackroom, but to fit them to 'spy' on poo picking the school is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. :eek: Talk about a big brother state..........
 
I can actually understand why the YO/YM wants to charge for services and insists that she and no-one else does it - yes, the yard has to cover its costs - so if this rule was in place when I was considering a yard, then it wouldn't put me off (as long, that is, as the YO/YM is capable of doing the tasks involved - or maybe has an employee to cater for this - and is fully insured). Before I found my own private place to rent, I was at a yard which did similar - a lady was employed on a part-time basis for just this purpose. And yes, I used her services regularly - but at the same time, the yard did not make it compulsory to use her services and we could all help each other out when necessary as the YM was sympathetic enough to understand that the costs to an individual can mount up. That, as far as I was concerned was a happy balance.

However, what I would NEVER accept is someone telling me what farrier I could have, or what instructor (vet, dentist etc. etc.). That is not in the best interests of horse or rider. There are good farriers and bad farriers and also some farriers are great with great big carthorse feet but not so good with neat little pony feet and vice versa. No way would I have someone dictating to me that I must have so and so a farrier.

Riding instructors are the same. It's not even a case of good or bad riding instructors either - it's a case of having a riding instructor who suits you, your plans and ambitions, and also who suits your way of learning (explains things in a way that sits comfortably with you). No way would I have someone telling me that I can only have so-and-so instructor - what happens if I don't get on with their style - am I never to have lessons again?

Should the yard owner agree to a small fee however, for use of the school when you bring in an outside instructor (and I stress, for the YO/YM's benefit , a FULLY INSURED outside instructor) then again I don't see a problem with that.
 
scally said:
It still amazes me that people expect for £30 a week or less a 12 x 12 stable, safe and well fenced grazing, arenas that cost the earth to install, full insurance and business rates paid, electricity and water (with what these rates are each month), when you can not rent a 12 x 12 room in a house for this amount, or even a garage to store a car.
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I agree with this. You'd be hard pushed to install an arena for less than £20k. It costs more per day for a baby in a nursery or a cat in a cattery than many people charge for full livery.
 
I think any YO has the right to implement any rules or regulations they wish, but they then have to be prepared to suffer the business consequences of this.

Any Livery has the right to not agree with rules and leave

I think the YO in question may well find their business suffers dramatically with these type of draconian rules on a DIY yard. As someone else said, why not just change your livery to Part or Full, as that is obviously what they want.

DIY to me is just that, I will do what I damn well please with MY horses and no one has the right to tell me who can and cannot turn out/muck out or ride them!

As for the excuse of insurance, as long as I am not paying anyone to do my horses, then MY insurance covers MY horses!!

God that's why its such a pleasure keeping my horses at a DIY yard with all the facilities, but run by a non horsey farmer - he gets things done, but then leaves the horse stuff to each individual livery - BLISS!

Besides which most of the numpties that I've come across working on yards offering services, I wouldn't let near my horses.

As for the cost of running a yard, I've yet to come across a poor YO, or one that works anywhere near the hours I work and still look after my horses both ends of the day................my old YO who thought she was doing you a favour by renting you a stable, would always moan about costs, hours she worked etc etc, yet when I was up mucking and riding my horse at 6am in the morning and putting to bed 6/7/8pm at night and working full time in between, was she there working......errr no........8am - 5pm, riding her horses during the day

Give me that hard work any day of the week!!!

Me bitter, never !! LOL

Seriously, I do totally respect that any YO can implement any rules they want, their yard, their rules, but its not up to liveries to just sit back and accept them, after all in any other business in the "real" world, the CUSTOMER is King - except mostly in the horse world.
 
jhoward said:
theres a big hoo har a tthe yard im on about the rules..

it is a diy yard i may add..

we are not allowed to.

ride each others horses

help each other out

bring in our own instructors.

the reason for these rules is that by doing any of the above we are taking money away from the yad as they are paid services, ie turning out etc.

if we do any of the above for each other the yard will still charge the person it was dne for.. so if i turnout bobs horse.. bob will still get charged 1.50 plus vat.

are these rules to much for a diy yard.. or are they just normal rules?
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Seems very OTT

Unless the YM/YO whoever is teaching is a decent trainer - are they specialised or just your average AI type?

By not being able to RIDE each others horses do you mean School? I could maybe understand that - although seems very OTT - especially if it also extends to just switching pones and having fun on each others horses!
 
Skyar said:
Seems very OTT

Unless the YM/YO whoever is teaching is a decent trainer - are they specialised or just your average AI type?

By not being able to RIDE each others horses do you mean School? I could maybe understand that - although seems very OTT - especially if it also extends to just switching pones and having fun on each others horses!
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well, i thought school but one of the other liveries was riding somebodys horse at the weekend and jumping it, and tey all got a telin off for it.

as for ym being decent, shes not bad, for me shes a good person to have to remind of things ifyou know what i meen, but i dont think long term id progress to a higher standard.. for most of the others on the yard then shes fab for them so thats not a gripe.
 
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