Are they liable?

V

vieshot

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 March 2007
Messages
2,049
Visit site
If a horse kicks another horse out riding, lets say in a competition and the horse that kicked out DIDNT have a red ribbon in its tail and the horse that got kicked had to be PTS would the person who owned the horse that had kicked the other be liable?
 
Frankly anyone who is stupid enough to ride close enough behind another horse to get kicked, ribbon or no ribbon, gets no sympathy from me....

How can they be liable when if the person on the other horse had used their brain and stayed out of the way the situation would never have arisen? 6 of one, half a dozen of the other in terms of fault IMO.
 
No. The person riding the horse that got kicked was either negligent in going to close, or didn't have their horse under proper control. Horses are noted for kicking.

Some folks have to lern the hard way.
crazy.gif
 
bit harsh spotted cat. but do agree never get close to any other horses, they are truly unpredictable . but my thoughts are with the horse that got pts
 
Sorry you think that Martyna, but lets face it, that is one of the first things you learn as a kid learning to ride - horses kick and standing or riding behind them in such a way as to put yourself in a position to get kicked is a sure-fire way to make a bid for a Darwin Award....

Of course it is a shame that a horse ended up being PTS, but it could have so easily been avoided. If I was the person who allowed that to happen I would be wracked with guilt until the end of my days as it was entirely preventable by me.
 
Agree - don't ride so close- its the first thing you learn. Yet there was a thread on here earlier carried over from the Hunting Forum which suggested that anyone whose horse kicked another horse crowding up behind it whilst out hunting ought to thrash it severely & would be shunned by all right-minded riders if they didn't. (I was going to reply in the same vein as the people on here, but lost track of the post).
 
Accidents can happen though! No matter how careful you are. You can leave plenty of distance and still get kicked. I got kicked myself today. Plenty of room between me & my horse and the horse that kicked me. Rider was mounting said horse when she ran backwards very fast with rider half on and double barrelled me while I was tightening my horses girth (aiming for him). This horse is the type of horse that is used to take youngsters out for their first hacks as you could shove a horse right up her backside and she wouldn't do anything. We have hacked out loads of times together and she has always been impecable with him - leading him past spooky objects etc etc. Only reason we can think of for this behaviour is that she is coming into season and he was gelded late so still acts like a bit of a lad at times. But he wasn't at that point (concentateing on holding his breath
smirk.gif
) and there was loads of room between them - no way he could have remotely reached her bottom with his nose to sniff her. He got out of the way easily enough but because I was concentrating on the girth I wasn't looking and for me it was too late. Horses are QUICK! So I suppose there was enough room for a horse not to be able to kick another horse but enough room for a quick horse to get a slow distracted human. The only thing you can really predict about horses is that they are unpredictable.

As for the particular question it would all be a question of circumstance. It would be very complicated - but the law is an ass in lots of ways.
 
Yep agree with that, but as the OP said 'out riding' and 'lets say in a competition' that implies both parties were mounted and at a comp I am hyper-aware of where everyone is in relation to me and how their horses look as crazy things can happen at any moment and it is my responsibility to be on my guard!

I'm not being holier than thou about this - of course accidents happen - but equally I would not be pushing for 'liability' to be admitted. I suppose my insurers might though! Would you say the other horse owner was 'liable' in the situation in which you got kicked? Because that's what's being asked after all!
 
[ QUOTE ]
at a comp I am hyper-aware of where everyone is in relation to me and how their horses look as crazy things can happen at any moment and it is my responsibility to be on my guard!


[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly what I do too. No different to driving on a motorway for me - if there are horses all around me, I know exactly where they are and what they are doing and I watch for any changes in ear and body movements.
 
I have seen some horses at shows reverse at speed across a ring, lashing out at everything that gets in their way. If a rider on board that horse is less than competent, then you could be the unlucky one that gets hammered. There is no test that people have to pass to be allowed to ride their horse off a lead rein (more's the pity) and a horse that does this, or bucks and catches a horse close by, is a danger to everyone. It is not always the fault of someone getting too close.
 
I would not want to take a horse who needed a red ribbon into a competition environment near to other horses, but have seen some run back to kick another horse, and some collecting rings and horse walks are very crowded. Anything that is known to kick out should not be taken in them.

Insurers will ask if the horse who kicked out was known to exhibit this behaviour and this known to the owner / rider.
WHen my horse and I were kicked, in an inhand class line up, the culprit ran backwards kicking. My insurers paid the subsequent vet bills ( over £1,000) and siad that horses do kick, adccidents do happen, and they did not follow up with the show organsiers, in this case, to get the name and address of the pony who kicked as they said unless it was a known kicker, they would not be able to prove negligence of its handler.
 
[ QUOTE ]


Insurers will ask if the horse who kicked out was known to exhibit this behaviour and this known to the owner / rider.

....as they said unless it was a known kicker, they would not be able to prove negligence of its handler.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this suggest that you SHOULDN'T use a red ribbon, as to do so is to potentially admit liability?
 
Don't know the exact TORT (am assuming a civil issue rather than a deliberate kicking!) but guess that there is a researchable precedent for this kind of thing and am sure the insurance companies well know it.

Red ribbons don;t have a legal status as far as I know so wouldn't matter if wearing one or not.

Is a bit like liability for your horses/dog causing an accident is down to owner regardless of intention. I think.
 
[ QUOTE ]
at a comp I am hyper-aware of where everyone is in relation to me and how their horses look as crazy things can happen at any moment and it is my responsibility to be on my guard!

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too, it's such a shame most people aren't though. I've had to 'have a quiet word' with a few people in the warm up area. I think I have gone off on one about this topic before so I won't start again! Yes, accidents happen but largely... if you go up a horses arse (especially one you don't know) or skim past it, what do you think is going to happen?!
 
OK, could I expand on this?

What about in a race situation - would all the above apply?

What about if the owner of the horse had already admitted in writing that they knew their horse was liable to kick "I should put a red ribbon in her tail so people don't get too close as she doesn't like horses up her backside"

How the devil are you Veeeeeeeeshot?
 
Unfortunately not!!Horses are unpredictable!I dont think my boy would ever kick another out but i would never trust him 100%!!I have had him 10 yrs and he shows alot of teeth when i am riding out(to other horses,no idea why,but because i know he does this i am always ready for it)!!He has never kicked out ridden but i bet if something got to close to his bum he would react in defence!!
 
I always put a ribbon in my mare's tail because although she doesn't often kick when she does she really means it. She kicked another horse at a show last year and they tried to sue me but their insurance company wouldn't pay for it.
 
If I owned a horse that kicked and I was at a show I would have the red ribbon and keep well away from and inform other people - its courtesy.

The OP never said which horse got too close to the other tho. When we were at a local show I was just standing with Beau when what looked like a calm docile chunky horse walked past - well it went a bit nuts and I was out of there in a shot dragging Beau who unfortunately when confronted by stuff like that roots himself to the spot!
If her horse had hurt Beau THEN it would have been her fault. BUT what if I has just calmly ridden past and it had been standing and gone skits? We were about a good 10m apart but this horse just went for anything near.

But also you can just be riding along with a mate and get kicked - I was doing pairs years ago with my sis and we were side by side, not too close and her pony lashed out at my horse - who had been his field companion of 6 years - and got her inside her hind legs. He wasn't a kicker.

Thankfully Beau is just a stamper, and will stamp his legs when fed up - that usually keeps anyone away - that and the fact that he has a big back end!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top