Are we getting too hung up about turnout?

Sidney said:
However even with this acreage, I will still restrict turnout if the conditions demand it and have never had a livery complain yet, as they also get the benefits of well maintained and nutritional grazing.
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If it suits you and your liveries, then that is perfect. But interestingly you quite possibly don't have enough land to offer unlimited turnout anyway.
 
I think a lot depends on your definition of 'restricted turnout'. Whilst I wouldn't necessarily want 24/7 turnout all the time, I certainly wouldn't want to be on a yard where winter turnout was restricted to, say, one hour a day, or where the horse regularly wasn't allowed out at all on some days.
 
I have seen the odd stressed stabled horse (usually a young in-training TB), but the most miserable horses I have EVER seen were out on a wet field in the pouring rain - and they wern't hungry, neglected rescue cases either. Field shelters are a great boon, as are stables, but the best thing is a sensible, responsible owner/carer IMO.
 
I have just copied this from another post about WWYD if you could't turn out which I posted this on, couldn't be bothered to re-write it but thought i would post it under this thread! Apologies if you've already read it! :)

Not saying that I agree with this but years ago I worked on a competition/stud/livery yard where hardly any of the ridden horses were ever turned out, they didn't have a horse walker back then either. Guess the horses were used to it but they were worked for about an hour a day and in their boxes for the rest of the day. Didn't have many with stable vices that didnt arrive with them, they all seemed pretty relaxed and happy, lots going on for them to see and people in and out of their stables during the day. The only horses turned out were the brood mares, youngsters and the comp horses when they had a holiday. Before people start shouting at me about how unnatural this is etc, it's not how I would chose to keep horses and my own are turned out everyday unless the weather is dangerous. Just saying that there are places that don't turn out and once the horses are used to it they don't all turn into crazy lunatics unless your pumping them full of high cal food and not giving them a good hour + of work.
 
Cortez said:
I have seen the odd stressed stabled horse (usually a young in-training TB), but the most miserable horses I have EVER seen were out on a wet field in the pouring rain - and they wern't hungry, neglected rescue cases either. Field shelters are a great boon, as are stables, but the best thing is a sensible, responsible owner/carer IMO.
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Spot on.
 
I haven't suddenly got hung up on turnout, its what I've always done. In at night in winter or if injured but otherwise out. If its freezing, snowy heavy rain they still go out. Fields have appropriate shelter & I rug &/or provide hay when needed. Apart from injury caused by outside factors, my 23yr old has never been lame. She goes out in any weather & even after being stabled overnight walks out of her box like a youngster, no hint of stiffness yet. So if happy healthy horses are a convenience then yes I keep out for convenience. Nothing wrong in keeping a horse in at night all year if that's what you want. But ime saying your horse is happy on severely restricted turnout or prefers staying in 22hrs a day is rubbish. It's because they don't know what their missing. Horses who've done a long period of box rest get almost agrophobic, wanting to come in after short periods. It's not because they prefer being in, its because they've learnt to tolerate it & horses love routine. Same for any horse who's always had restricted turnout, they can't miss what they don't know. But if you spend time adjusting them to staying out they soon change their opinion of staying in for 20+ hrs a day. And are much healthier & happier for it.
 
Not having 24/7 turnout is no issue if the horse is in work the yard facilities are good and you have access to hacking horse walkers all weather surfaces etc I would more than happy to have restricted turnout even down to an hour a day when the weather was bad and none when awful as long as i had time to work the horse.
However horses standing in who are not in work is never acceptable unless they are lame and my farrier tells me awful story's about DIYyards where horses go days without coming out of their stables that's wrong and should never happen.
I bring my horses in everyday in winter at night and they get three to four hours out more if not in work and in summer they are in all day.
 
Benson - thanks for posting this, Ive actually found it really interesting, its not really something I've considered properly before...

Me, I would love to have all my horses out 24/7 and I believe that all horses would adapt to it given the right rugs/field shelters etc. often I think its the owner who decides the horse doesnt like 24/7 turn out (not picking at anyone, just something i've observed)

However, in real life I have to use a livery yard, and am constrained by their rules, my current livery yard does not offer 24/7 turn out at all, we turn out all day in winter (7am-4pm) and swap to night time turn out in summer (6pm-8am) - and actually at this yard 24/7 turnout wouldnt work for me, the grazing is top quality dairy pasture, and I'd have a very poorly laminitic horse if i did. The routein works perfectly for me, and currently wouldnt change anything, the stables are large and roomy and my horse seems very comfortable.
 
Well, my horse survived on no turnout one winter, but developed behavioural problems when ridden, resulting in my injuring myself. Restored to proper turnout, and he is perfectly manageable. He is quite happy with coming in at nights, as long as he gets a good few hours during the day to roam, graze, and interact with other horses. This in a horse who had been stabled on the continent for many years too.

Aside from that, the swollen legs many horses get from lack of circulation being inside all the time puts me off. And whats the point in swaddling them in bandages when they can be outdoors?
 
benson21 said:
But who is it that decides that the t/o I have for Donovan is 'less than ideal'?
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I didn't, I said "for the majority of horses". If you wish to restrict your horse's turnout that's up to you, but spare a thought for those horses that would not cope as admirably as Donovan.
 
We have 24/7 turnout in summer, all day turnout in spring and autumn and then 3 hours a day turnout in the sand during the winter. All horses seem very happy with this. I think they would be just as happy coming in at night in the summer though.
 
IME of working with different animals, even cows and sheep (supposedly hardy) will choose to bring themselves inside to a big straw bed and shelter when the weather is bad. At the end of the day WE are animals too, some of us are happy to be outside whatever the weather and some of us prefer to sit indoors all day. As many people have said it is down to the individual needs/wants of that animal.
 
meesha said:
I think everyone understands that a horse may need to be stabled sometimes due to ground conditions/injury but if you put a cat or dog in an equivalent size cage (scale down for their size) and left them in there for 14 hours at a time poeple would be horrified (think 6pm stable 8am turnout).

Sooo many health benefits for having them out and it seems many conditions aggrevated by keeping them in (arthritus, copd etc)
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agree totally, :)
 
My boy is in at night, and out in the day. He loves his stable as that is where he has his breakfast and dinner and he is surrounded by lovely mares to chatter with. He also likes a little lie down and so a deep bed of shavings is much nicer than the field.

I don't feel bad having him in a stable, in fact I think he would be pretty cross if we left him out overnight!

Each to their own and whatnot - all horses are different, we all know what suits our own horses and we do our best to accommodate them appropriately!
 
On our yard we have 24/7 turnout from mid March until at least beginning of November sometimes mid December depending on the weather. During the winter the horses have to be in at night but there is no set time as to what constitutes night.

Mine come in about 7pm in the winter and go out between 5 - 5.30am. In the summer they are in from 7.30am until 6pm whilst the grass is long or they both end up with pulses. If it ever stops raining this year I might be able to turn them out 24/7 as this is the latest I've ever had to keep them in during the day.
 
TJ&Ozzie said:
As many people have said it is down to the individual needs/wants of that animal.
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That is fine if the stabling/turnout arrangements are driven by the needs of the animal, but so often it is dictated by the livery yard policy even though it might not be best for some of the horses concerned.
 
Cortez said:
but the most miserable horses I have EVER seen were out on a wet field in the pouring rain - and they wern't hungry, neglected rescue cases either..
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Were they miserable? How do you know? Or are you anthropomorphising like the owners that say oh my horse likes to come in, because you think you'd be miserable stood out in the rain.......

I think everyone understands that a horse may need to be stabled sometimes due to ground conditions/injury but if you put a cat or dog in an equivalent size cage (scale down for their size) and left them in there for 14 hours at a time poeple would be horrified (think 6pm stable 8am turnout).
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SPOT ON!!! Why is it acceptable in fact NORMAL to put horses, a herd animal, in solitary confinement for hours and hours on end and yet battery hens/pigs/dogs/cats its ok?!

And yes, im of the 24.7 turnout brigade - I have a field shelter and 2 sides of mature trees and if its raining stair rods my horses are to be found in the middle of the field...:rolleyes:
 
I don't think horses need 24/7 turnout to be happy. What I hate is no turnout, or turnout so irregular that the horses have no routine and then they go ape when they are let out.

IME horses with a routine of only a few hours turnout a day are perfectly happy horses. Horses shut in with excess energy allowed to build up get stressed, as do horses who can't understand why they were let out yesterday morning and now they're being left in because its someone else's turn.
 
amymay said:
Gosh, I don't. I simply want several hours during winter, and the choice of 24/7 in the summer.

I'm more than happy to keep a horse in if the weather is vile etc.

I have never been on a yard where t/o is restricted (except maybe on one or two occasions when we've had heavy snow), nor would I move to one.
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Basically this.

I want my horses out as much as possible. During a dry winter, like last one, I had them out 24/7 virtually all year. Next year, F will probably be on livery so we have a surface to work on, so will almost certainly be stabled more. The other two may also be stabled more if it's wetter.

It suits them - they're hardy types and happy out with forage, rugged as necessary (the clipped ones). It suits J, who is older and now gets stiff when stabled in the cold. It suits F, if I don't have masses of time to exercise him (lack of surface/lights) as he doesn't get too loopy. Having them out 24/7 in summer means their basic level of fitness is higher - which is helpful in some circs as they don't have that blood horse "drive".

It suits me, it means I don't have to rush up there and can be late / early if it's convenient. It suits me as I don't have to muck out all the time and just do the field as and when, and it saves on bedding and forage.

That doesn't mean it would suit all horses or all owners, or that other owners are wrong for stabling overnight or similar. I do think that severely restricted turnout for long periods is detrimental to the horse's physical and psychological wellbeing though and as such I wouldn't tolerate a yard which insisted upon it.
 
Depends on the horse i guess but personally I think they should b out as much as possible. My boy is out 24/7 in summer and in a night in winter and he is soo much more chilled and happy when out 24/7 :-)
 
I just dont think its nice keeping a horse cooped up in a box for the majority of winter! I know a lot of what we do with our horses isnt natural but if we deny them the basic right to see and be in the outside world, pootling about then what sort of life is that?

I wouldnt go to a place that doesnt offer good turnout and think too many people wrap their horses up in cotton wool which why some horses get to the point where, yes they do get cold without a rug, yes they will stay in their stable when you open the door wide and walk away, yes, they do stand at the gate to come in when it rains. Its because humans have made them like that.

My girl would also go absolutely mental staying in just going out for a few hours each day. When I say she'd go mental, she would either literally pace around like a loon or go mental in the sense that she would get down and depressed.
 
I can't really talk as my one is on box rest at the moment due to injury but generally I would ALWAYS turnout 24/7 all year round (unless due to injury or illness). Dont get me wrong, I have brought my horses in for a night if I have an event early the next day (he's grey so had to be bathed night before).

However, I do strongly believe the vast majority of horses (no matter what breed or what level it competes at) should live out. Way too many people automatically stable overnight or permanently for no reason or reasons purely to suit them (ie. the horse is dry to ride when they get home from work or whatever). I would never ever stable my horses permanently or even for a few days straight let alone a whole winter (or longer...) like some people unless there was a very very good reason. I think its wrong. The default SHOULD be that you turn out all the time and the question is why should you stable, often it seems to be the other way round (ie. "will my horse cope out 24/7" posts). I totally agree with Meesha about if the horse were a dog or cat and kept in a box the appropriate size, you'd get done for cruelty.

I believe those who say their horses want to be in are generally wrong. Horses who stand at the gate looking longingly at their stable are not wanting to be brought in to stand in a tiny box for hours, they are actually wanting the hard feed or hay that is IN the stable. Saying your horses are "happy and settled" doesn't mean they are as happy as they can be, they've just learnt to cope. People who think a horse looks miserable out in the rain are putting human emotion on them - yes, they are huddled up with their heads down, this is how they keep warm, it doesn't mean they're unhappy about it.
 
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I agree with OP and think that some people can get too hung up on the great turnout debate!

We have individual paddocks when I currently stable and basically, it is your responsibility to look after your own paddock. Therefore, if you want your horse out 24/7, you can - but if it is soon a poached muddy mess with no grazing, that's what you have until it's dry enough to be safely rolled.

I currently stable at night and turn out from about 9am - 6pm. My girl seems perfectly happy with this and it suits me well enough (although it does mean I have to muck out and poo pick! Would be nice to only have to do one! lol).

In the past, I have been on yards with all year 24/7 turnout (except in deep deep snow) and even for a brief period on a yard that had no turnout - just wood bark paddocks. Both of these yards were suitable for the horses I had at the time and although I wouldn't want to go back to one with NO grazing, I wasn't concerned about being on that yard at the time as my mare was turned out with another horse all day, she just had haylage instead of grass! She also had farily severe sweet-itch and at this yard she suffered least with the condition.

If I'm honest, I prefer to be in charge of the situation and so, I like the arrangements on my current yard. Yes, some liveries turnout 24/7 in summer (and due to this year's rain, now have mud bogs instead of grazing), and others, like me, turn out in way that protects our grazing. I also like to restrict my girl's grazing as she is RID and would therefore be prone to extreme rollypolliness (yes it's a word - I am almost sure :) ), plus she has allergies to fly bites and prefers to be in at dawn and dusk.

BTW, I am also on a farm that has hundreds of acres so space is not an issue.... but only a relatively small percentage is used for turn out, as the farmer uses the rest of the acreage to make our haylage. I don't mind this as it means our livery bills are cheap as he doesn't need to buy in forage.

Each to their own I say - what suits one, doesn't suit another. We all know our own horses and love them dearly. We know what is best for our own neddies and we shouldn't feel pressured to go 'au naturale' to please others - we should only go down this route, if it is GENUINELY best for the horse!
 
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In my experience most horses prefer open access to shelter and to field. There are always exceptions but my old pony was born into 24\7 turnout with a shelter and lived like that for many years. When she was 13 I moved areas and ended up on a yard where she was stabled either overnight or during the day. She never showed any sign of not liking it but when I moved back to 24\7 turnout she was instantly more relaxed and I wished I had managed to move sooner.

I have also seen horses do really badly and have serious behavioural problems due to lack of turnout. I have not yet come across a horse that appears to do better stabled than out 24\7 with decent fields and shelter.

I appreciate that with land at a premium a lot of horses need to be stabled but I have not yet come across a situation where that is better for the horse. I appreciate there must be exceptions but not on the scale that people claim.

Horses kept out in good conditions are better off.

Less equine asthma, less likely to get ulcers, less bored, happier and fitter.

As an owner I am more relaxed and so are my horses.
 
Sweden has just introduced a law that states that all equines must be given the opportunity to express their natural gaits at least once a day.

Can think of many yards in the UK that would fail on that one!
 
Flame_ said:
I don't think horses need 24/7 turnout to be happy. What I hate is no turnout, or turnout so irregular that the horses have no routine and then they go ape when they are let out.

IME horses with a routine of only a few hours turnout a day are perfectly happy horses. Horses shut in with excess energy allowed to build up get stressed, as do horses who can't understand why they were let out yesterday morning and now they're being left in because its someone else's turn.
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AGREE!! This is a very good and well put point!
 
TigerTail said:
Individual turn out - now that is a whole other can of worms :eek::D
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I've known two who would rather be individually turned out over night than come in with the others. They were quite happy, however I'd never have individual turnout as the only option. I like at least one companion as a general rule, or turned out in adjacent fields. I also detest the size of most individual turnouts I've seen. For lush grass on an expanding paddock I don't mind a small patch, but not a day to day option for a healthy horse.

Pan
 
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