Are we getting too hung up about turnout?

In answer to the question, I think - yes. As Joanne says, it depends on the horse and no-one knows their horse better than its' keeper, so a very individual thing.

joeanne said:
I guess it depends on the horse. As in most things, quite so.
My mare would stay in all winter if you let her (she HATES rain/wind/snow/overcast days.....you get the picture).
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I had a gelding like that, arab, poof, he literally had to be dragged from his stall on wet, cold days.

Mine are out 24/7 purely because it suits me, I loathe and detest mucking out, why should I knock myself out doing it unless I am being paid to?;) If it suited me to have them in by day, or night, whatever, then I would do that.

Some days the horses want in, I bring the old mare in because she wants to, Robin likes to come in because she hates the sun and gets burned terribly, Lady and Finnegan come in because I like to have foals in for handling. Today it is dark, we have storms and it is wet, haven't seen a single horse at the gate this morning :D

Some horses like to be in, some don't, some it is convenient for the owner, some it isn't, some should be out/in for their health. I have a couple of old horses here that seize up within an hour if they are stalled - it would be cruel to confine them.
 
Well, I had a tb mare who would happily go out 24/7 in the warm summer weather. Should the rain appear, or in the winter when the grass was poor, not the case. My yard is in at night during the winter. The YO would turn her out at 8am and by 11am she would be standing in the corner miserably, not even trying to eat. Then the weight would start falling off her. He kindly started just bringing her in to warm dry stable with ad-lib haylege when she made her appearance at the gate.

So, that's out for a whole 2 hours. And when we stopped trying to force daily turnout on her, that was the first winter that she didn't come out of it looking like a toaster rack. She wanted to be in.

My current boy is in at night and out during the day all year long. I would rather he was out 24/7 all year, but I don't have the option in the winter at my current yard and I can't move to seek out the turnout as I need to be able to public transport to the stables on occasion. The summer is my choice because he is a very good doer and would end up laminitic/obese if he was allowed out onto the fields all day.

That being said, he happily comes in, eats a haynet. Every night he has a good sleep (can tell by the flattened straw and stable stains) then goes out again the next morning. He looks forward to being turned out, but he doesn't show any stable vices and willingly walks into his stable. He's quite settled in his routien, and I don't think he's miserable at all for his lack of 24/7 turnout.

So, whilst I think that 24/7 is the ideal, we need to be flexible with it to go with the horse's needs. And yeah, a little bit too much emphasis put on it being turn out these days. You can cope without it with most horses.
 
Hmmm I don't know, are we?

I personally just think it's nice to have the option, I wouldn't move to a yard that couldn't offer as much turn out as possible, I understand some yards need to restrict the grazing and for very good reasons, I think that is a seperate issue though, also some horses just wouldn't cope being kept in for longer periods, main thing that counts is that you find a yard best suited to your horse. :)
 
Cortez said:
I have been in the happy position of being able to keep horses in stables with large runs (almost half an acre), and you would be AMAZED (well, I was) at how much time they chose to spend in their stables - if it was hot, cold, windy, rainy, fly-ey, they were in there. I would say from observation they spent easily 1/3 of their time in the stable, either resting, eating (haynets always available) or lying down. The rest of the time they were grazing or mooching about the paddocks. .
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My stallion 'lives out' in that he has a run in shed and a paddock of just over half an acre - quite adequate (he is fed hay year round, I don't expect his pen to sustain him) and as you say, he chooses to spend a large amount of time indoors. The first drop of rain, snowflake, hail stone, fly bite or too hot, too windy, and he's belting across the pen and into his shed. He is like a turtle, spends much of his time with just his head sticking out. Zeus is an equine couch potato :D
 
I often wonder if it's somehow a bit silly to blather on about how natural it is for a horse when really, it's just not natural for them to be ridden. So why is it ok to put your wants first (ie to ride) and then to profess it's wrong to put your wants first (to keep the horse in sometimes)?

That said, mine are out 24/7. They are rugged appropriately, checked over for warmth and comfort and given access to grazing and water.

I've never asked them how they feel about it.
 
While I realise that obviously it is natural for horses to be out all the time, all year round, where I am 24/7 turnout 365 days a year is just not on option for most livery yards. I have kept one horse at home for eight years now in a field of about 3 acres, but the ground is so wet that even with paddocking off the field, it simply would be destroyed if I didn't stable my mare during the winter. I think that people who have never had to manage their own grazing struggle to see it from the YO's point of view.

I am currently working and living at a riding school and livery yard. We have approximately 55 horses in total. At the moment, the livery geldings are out all day and in at night. Mares can be out 24/7 (unless we have extremely heavy rain) as there are only 5 of them, but the owners have all chosen to have their mares out at night and in for 6-8 hours during the day. Usually there is 24/7 turnout for everyone by the 1st of July either at the yard or down the road in the summer grazing. However, we have had SO much rain that we haven't been able to cut haylage off these fields yet. There are 18 geldings in the livery yard at the moment, and the only field we have available now is not big enough to support 18 horses 24/7. This does not bother me. I have an extremely wimpy TB who refuses to leave his stable if it is raining. Yes, he is usually happy once he is turned out in the rain (in his rainsheet - *grabs tin hat*), but he is fine just being turned out from 11-7/8 each day. He still needs to put on some weight, so this way he still gets a feed and haylage morning and night, and good grass during the day. In winter, he will probably get 2-3 hours turnout 5 days out of 7. That's enough for me as I ride every day and we have a small sand paddock to turn out in if he needs to burn off some energy.
 
TGM said:
I think a lot depends on your definition of 'restricted turnout'. Whilst I wouldn't necessarily want 24/7 turnout all the time, I certainly wouldn't want to be on a yard where winter turnout was restricted to, say, one hour a day, or where the horse regularly wasn't allowed out at all on some days.
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Exactly, you might go to visit a yard and get 'we might restrict turnout in severe weather' then get there and find the fields are shut all winter and your horse doesn't get to go out at all from november to april or only go out every other day. (Both of these are actual examples)

Personally I am happy with being able to turn out all day in the winter and at night in the summer but it can be difficult to find even this.
 
I think that turnout means different things to different people. There are numerous factors to be considered when deciding what is best for your horses and you.

Some of the things I really dislike are rows of stables which look like a stalag. Fields divided up into neat squares with electric tape each containing a horse. Yards which stop all turnout in the winter to save the fields, expecting the horses to be stabled (farmer mentality). Horses turned out in bright green fields of rye grass.

Horses don't need to be turned out in fields 24/7 grazing their heads off. What they really need is the unresticted ability to move freely, with access to high volume low feed value forage, shelter from wind, rain and sun.
 
I have 3 horses. All are stabled overnight year round. In the winter it is because of the weather and to save the ground. In the summer it is because of the flies (one horse has slight sweetitch), the grass (all are prone to overeating, as is their owner:-) and the work schedule. IF the weather co-operates I will occasionally turn out overnight - they hate this and stand at the gate ALL night (I have got up to check, and been met by reproachful equines standing at the gate at 1, 2, 3, and 4am), then come in and fling themselves down for their beauty sleep. Horses like routine, they get used to a management system and providing everyone is content I feel no need to argue with other people about theirs as long as the horses are happy. Horses are adaptable.
 
I have a few that don't mind being in, but my young horse thinks he's being punished if he has to stay in. He looks out into the blizzard and mopes. He comes in to call with the others if you call him specifically, but if not he just watches them come in and goes back to his grazing and is superhappy just left out.
 
Without wishing to sound like a cliche - horses for courses ;)

I have kept mine on a livery yard which offered unrestricted t/o but over winter he was brought in. This was for my benefit as much as his so I could ride after work without walking for 1/2 mile to his field and bringing him in muddy. He then moved to a friend's and was out 24/7 with access to a stable. In two years the door was never closed other than if we were getting ready for shows etc. He would stand outside in all weathers - particularly loved the snow when it was really deep. I would put a bed down and he did get into a routine of putting himself to bed - his fieldmates (two donks) were in the adjoining stable and he liked the company :D

We moved to our own place with land this year and he has been living out 24/7 with good natural shelter. He has a little pony friend and is happy. I am building a shelter/stables currently to provide full shelter in the worst weather (and to keep the farrier dry :D ) but I have no intention of closing the doors.

I have known some horses thrive on the routine of coming in every night, particularly younger ones, as it can help to establish the relationship and provide opportunity for regular handling. However, I love the current set up of freedom to use stables if wanted. It suits my horses and that suits me.

I don't think that you can generalise what 'type' or breed of horse suits a particular regime either - they're all individuals. My 'free-range' lad is a TB by the way :D ;)
 
MagicMelon said:
I can't really talk as my one is on box rest at the moment due to injury but generally I would ALWAYS turnout 24/7 all year round (unless due to injury or illness). Dont get me wrong, I have brought my horses in for a night if I have an event early the next day (he's grey so had to be bathed night before).

However, I do strongly believe the vast majority of horses (no matter what breed or what level it competes at) should live out. Way too many people automatically stable overnight or permanently for no reason or reasons purely to suit them (ie. the horse is dry to ride when they get home from work or whatever). I would never ever stable my horses permanently or even for a few days straight let alone a whole winter (or longer...) like some people unless there was a very very good reason. I think its wrong. The default SHOULD be that you turn out all the time and the question is why should you stable, often it seems to be the other way round (ie. "will my horse cope out 24/7" posts). I totally agree with Meesha about if the horse were a dog or cat and kept in a box the appropriate size, you'd get done for cruelty.

I believe those who say their horses want to be in are generally wrong. Horses who stand at the gate looking longingly at their stable are not wanting to be brought in to stand in a tiny box for hours, they are actually wanting the hard feed or hay that is IN the stable. Saying your horses are "happy and settled" doesn't mean they are as happy as they can be, they've just learnt to cope. People who think a horse looks miserable out in the rain are putting human emotion on them - yes, they are huddled up with their heads down, this is how they keep warm, it doesn't mean they're unhappy about it.
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This 100%
 
To me, turnout is where a horse can go out and browse, have a hooley, be a horse ... turnout does not have to have oodles of grass, or to be capable of sustaining a horse.

All my turnout is pretty bare, I like it like that, no horse here has ever had laminitis because they aren't on rich grass. I grow good grass for hay, not for the horses to eat as it stands, that would be a waste of space. I don't mind feeding forage all year round in paddocks. the only time I let my horses out on long grass is when I open a hay field up in winter, then it is merely standing hay - foggage I think it is called in some parts. http://agriculture.kzntl.gov.za/por...sationofPastureFoggage/tabid/314/Default.aspx

Then there is grazing...a completely different thing altogether.
 
We have 24 hr turnout in summer, unfortunately I cant use it as my girly would be fat as a barrel! She won't keep a grazing muzzle on, and we can't strip graze as we have big herds so she has to come in during the day to get her off the grass. In winter we have daytime turnout only, but they are all waiting by the gate to come in of an evening so I'm guessing they don't mind. Different things suit different horses though as other posters have said.
 
My horse is now in at night and out during the day all year round, and he has never been happier or healthier. He is totally unstressed because he has a good routine, and he is at his ideal weight now too so is feeling really well. I have the option of 24/7 summer turnout, but him coming in controls his waist line. He also likes coming in for his hay - he is first to the gate to come in. I would rather have the healthy horse I have now with limited turnout (often at least 12 hours a day) than the obese horse I had last year because my ex-YO kept putting him onto cattle pastures.

Each to their own though, as long as the horse is happy and healthy I have no problems with how they are kept. All the horses on my yard are very contented and perform well.
 
My borrowed tb is a cribber so would go bonkers in a stable (or at least have no teeth or door left!) therefore is out 24/7 all year, however he just hates the rain and looks very sorry for himself even standing under a tree so think I will have to get him a decent shelter when weather takes a turn for the worse, I think he would appreciate a nice cosy bed as well bless him as he lies down quite a lot, he likes the home comforts! If it weren't for the cribbing I think he would be very happy being stables much of the winter! I mainly like the grazing option as it is easy, it is all up to me, and it is super close to my house :-)
 
I think to a certain extent we are conditioned to think warm cosy stable with deep bed, lot's of feed, all toasty under their rugs equals happy horses as that is what we would prefer and as long as the horse doesn't go loopy it must be fine.

In an ideal world there would be enough grazing to sustain the horse without the land turning to to a quagmire, suitable grass for horses (not dairy cows) and access to stables or barn or such like 24/7 unfortunately unless you have your own extensive land that is probably not possible and owners and horses need to be flexible.

However I do worry about the horses, who are kept in for many hours a day, long term physical health. I mean horses have evolved to roam and spend most of the day walking. We then shut them in a box where they effectively stand or lie still for hours, take them out of the box make them do a short period of strenuous activity and then shove them back in. It's no wonder there are so many health problems. But then we effectively do that to ourselves (generalising massively)- sit and do very little physical activity all day and then maybe go to the gym and it's working out great for public health :rolleyes:

*don's another tin hat (tin hat sales doing well today):cool:
 
I am obsessed with any yard my horses are at having the OPTION of 24/7 turnout.

Mainly because these yards don't rush to bring the horses in at the first sign of rain or close the fields if there are, shock horror, puddles!

Mine are out overnight in the summer and stand in during the day.
In the winter they are out from 8am-4pm.

So never on 24/7 turnout but I have found any yard which has restricted grazing in winter, in reality, means they turn out once a week from Oct-May which is just not good enough for me OR my horses.
 
I like my horses to have 24/7 in summer, although with the summer we're (not!) having our fields are getting really wet and my TB has enjoyed coming in for a few hours during the day for the past few days. When the weather is good though, I don't bring them in apart from to exercise and give them their feed.

In Winter my TB wouldn't be happy out all the time and as much as I would like her to have all day out it just isn't an option with the amount of rain we get and she stands at the gate looking miserable. So providing she has half a day out in winter she is happy. In Winter I have actually found her weaving over the gate she was so desperate to get in because the weather was so foul.

If I had my own land, I would have a big barn in the field that they could use as a field shelter and therefore choose to be in or out as they wanted.
 
benson21 said:
It seems everyone thinks that its got o be 24/7 turnout, whatever the weather, and I sometimes wonder if thats for the benefit of the horse or the owner.
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And how many that keep their horses in 24/7 do so for the benefit of their horses (box rest excepted)??

Yes, mine do live out mainly for my convenience. I have a family to look after now, my ponies are kept 12 miles from home and I do not have the time nor the money (to spend on fuel) to visit them twice a day (YO checks the twice a day so no need for me to go more than once). Yes it would be nice to tuck them up in a stable at night, but would they really appreciate that?? They are, afterall designed to live out, not shut in a 12 x12. They are turned out on hilly ground with plenty of natural shelter and have enough ground that there's never a shortage of grass through the winter. They don't suffer with coughs or stiffness and keep reasonabley fit despite thay fact that I don't have the time to ride much.

Yes, they do live out to suit me, but it suits them very well too.
 
i think in the last 20 years or so, people have got more hung up on turnout, yes! When I grew up, horses did a lot more work, 4/5 hours a day and lived in, had a holiday once a year for a couple of weeks out at grass before coming back in again. Ponies generally lived out, through hell or high water.

Life is faster now, people are rushing around and generally it is easier to sit horse in a field when you don't have the time to exercise properly, not half hour around the block a week.

Controversial, but true.:eek:
 
IME it depends on the individual horse. I know horses which get very stressed out when stabled so are better out 24/7, but I also know horses who are happy with only a few hours out during the winter and then are ready to come back in.

Mine are out 24/7 in the summer and in at night and out for a few hours during the day in the winter - and when the weather is really bad they don't go out. They do not seem too bothered either way, although I don't like them to have too many days in in a row as I feel it is important for them to get out in the field even for a short time to stretch their legs and relax.
 
i think it is about CHOICE! what suits one doesnt suit another. my liveries can choose to be out 24/7 or half in half out (day or night). also depends on the amount of land you have, how you look after it, and where you are in the country and obvs the weather!!!!. all my liveries have access to a stable if/when needed. natural and manmade shelters in most fields. but good grass doesnt grow for free!!!!! and pooh picking compared to mucking out (should i say as well as!!) is a thankless task!
 
We have horses at livery at 2 different yards. At one there is no turnout in the winter as the ground gets bottomless. In the summer the competition horses get a couple of hours out in the field.
The others are at an event yard and are out in the field 24/7. Interestingly one of the horses which is now out 24/7 wouldn't stay out for more than a couple of hours at the other yard. She now is so relaxed being out permanently.
 
My horse has to put up with approx 9hrs t/o a day all year in an individual paddock (massive) summer paddock is twice the size but too much grass to move over so still on winter one. On current grass with all this rain he would explode if I left him out all night.

I'd prefer 24hr turn-out but that often doesn't seem to come with decent shelter, decent fencing or adequate acreage. There is nothing natural about a horse standing knee deep in mud with little or no shelter to get out of the wind or away from flies. 24hr t/o also rarely seems to come with the other things or facilities that I need (or want) such as not too far from where I live, decent fencing, school, good hacking, lights and toilet. Why is this? I'd pay more for this as could save on bedding and feed. Perhaps this is a market that isn't being catered for?

If I ever owned any land a large field with an open barn which could be used freely would be my ideal way of keeping my horse(s) - I can but dream :)
 
Ours are at home now and living out 24/7 until November (unless the Autumn is dreadfully wet and windy). They will then be in at night (approx 12 hrs) until Spring (timing depends on the weather). We have one mare who was brought up in continental Europe and would definitely stay in, with feed, if we would let her. We don't!
When we were at livery we followed a similar routine. I cannot understand why people would stay on livery yards where turnout is not allowed everyday for a reasonable period of time all year round.
IME stabling horses can lead to all sorts of problems, stiffness, COPD, boredom 'vices'. And I doubt very much if every horse has ad-lib forage!
 
christine48 said:
Interestingly one of the horses which is now out 24/7 wouldn't stay out for more than a couple of hours at the other yard. She now is so relaxed being out permanently.
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I think that is a very important and telling comment. I do believe that the majority of horses are better turned out for the majority of the time (both mentally and physically) but they do need access to adequate shelter (whether manmade or natural) and plenty of forage (whether grazing or supplied hay/haylage) plus some form of companionship.

However, when people compare different systems of horse management they always seem to compare the worst with the best, according to the way they are biased!
 
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