Are we over reacting or is this not fair?!

[BethanT]

I love my livery Yard. The people on it are great, non bitchy, rarely get the Yard politics, good facilities in terms of the school jump paddock and XC jumps as well as great hacking. The rules are really relaxed. Too relaxed in my eyes, but that is a different matter.

But the grass management is crap. In the 2 years I have been there the horses have been in the same fields bar a few alterations. We have had upto 12 horses on 14 acres at any one time which caused issues as horses were constantly kicking off and the grass livery horses just got dumped in a field and left. Problem now sorted as the YM is no longer offering grass livery. There is also no worming plan in place, and as fields aren’t rotated there seems little point in worming my horses - although I have been.

As with everyone we had the wettest weather in winter, which put us on restricted turnout and a field rota system. And with all the hot weather, again we have no grazing. Now I and my fellow friends wouldn’t have an issue with this, after all the weather can’t be helped, but there is one livery with one horse in a field to themselves. Another livery with a field to themselves (admittedly 5 horses so no issue) and a third who is being allowed to swap between two different fields as and when she pleases.

I asked YM if there was a spare field for my horse and the other 3 in her field to move as the field is barren and has never been rested. It is totally horse sick. I am feeding Hay out there for mine and other liveries horses because they are so hungry (field is also only 4acres and half of that is weed). I was told there are no spare fields to move any everyone in the same boat.

Now I am sorry. You cannot have one livery swapping between fields and then tell another that there are no spare fields. Unless this person is paying much more in livery - which I doubt - this doesn’t seem fair. Now I know life isn’t fair, but I know come winter my horse will be in the same field, and I will still be feeding Hay to mine and others and I am the one who will be paying out. And other people will be fine because their fields will have been rested.

I have no idea how to broach this with YM as I don’t want to come across as a moaning Minnie kicking off because it’s not fair. But I don’t see how a YM can have one rule for the majority and then bend it for a few others.

Some one please tell me I am being ridiculous??

 

[JennBags]

You're not being ridiculous but you are being unrealistic by expecting the YO to be fair.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

You've left it very late in the year, but surely you and the others sharing your field intend to section it off and weed/over sow at least part of it ahead of this winter?

 

[BethanT]

You've left it very late in the year, but surely you and the others sharing your field intend to section it off and weed/over sow at least part of it ahead of this winter?

Not allowed to fertilise/spray at all as in some sort of scheme. And can only top at certain points. I want to split off yes, but it’s not really big enough with 4 horses on 4 acres. Would mean splitting to have 4 on 2 acres which is tight when one horse already gets bullied.

 

[BethanT]

Also I would also deem it the YM’s responsibility to manage grazing. Not liveries to manage fields when they are shared fields. If it was indivual I would agree, but otherwise I would say it was down to YM to actually manage it.

 

[SusieT]

Either you need to get together with the other 4 horses in your field and approach ym, suck it up, or move.
Maybe try a letter if you feel you cant word it right ?
Sounds like you havent enough land for the number of horses which is common in livery as people try and suck as much money as possible up from the liveries without planning the turnout.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

Not allowed to fertilise/spray at all as in some sort of scheme. And can only top at certain points. I want to split off yes, but it’s not really big enough with 4 horses on 4 acres. Would mean splitting to have 4 on 2 acres which is tight when one horse already gets bullied.

In that scenario, I'd put them on individual turnout with half an acre each for the couple of months needed to let the seed take on the rest of it. You're already feeding hay anyhow, and in the long run it would be worth it. Not sure where you got fertilising from in my previous post.

 

[JFTDWS]

I don't think you can expect to feed hay to yours in the field with other horses, unless you're feeding them all - and you certainly shouldn't be expected to pay to feed everyone's horses. This is the problem with shared turnout. I'd think you would have more success trying to get the other liveries to chip in and put hay in the field for all the horses, but that's also a logistical nightmare (especially if there are fat types in there). Alternatively, I'd pen your pony into a small section of the field so they can be fed hay. Ideally you'd pen each pony so some of the field can rest and recover. This is what I've resorted to this summer.

 

[be positive]

The 4 of you sharing the 4 acre field need to work together and come up with a plan, worming all at the same time and or doing egg counts will work as a programme even if the rest of the yard are not involved, that is as long as other horses don't move in, the same with resting the field you could rest 1/4 at a time then move the fence once it has recovered and rest another 1/4 if done throughout the year they will always have 3 acres which should be enough space and all of the field will rest for part of the year.
Getting the weeds topped may be more of an issue but poo picking does help keep weeds down and resting it will make a difference, as for being fair I think most yards seem to have a difficult time being fair to all the liveries, many would have far less than 4 acres for 4 horses so in some ways you are better off than some.

 

[BethanT]

The 4 of you sharing the 4 acre field need to work together and come up with a plan, worming all at the same time and or doing egg counts will work as a programme even if the rest of the yard are not involved, that is as long as other horses don't move in, the same with resting the field you could rest 1/4 at a time then move the fence once it has recovered and rest another 1/4 if done throughout the year they will always have 3 acres which should be enough space and all of the field will rest for part of the year.
Getting the weeds topped may be more of an issue but poo picking does help keep weeds down and resting it will make a difference, as for being fair I think most yards seem to have a difficult time being fair to all the liveries, many would have far less than 4 acres for 4 horses so in some ways you are better off than some.

My only issue with this is the poo picking. I simply don’t have time. Hence why I want my horses on a yard with larger fields so this wasn’t needed. I only have one horse in work at the moment as is without adding to the work load. If I had time I would be on a different Yard closer to home.

Thankfully one livery has two of the horses in the field and she has given me money for Hay. Other livery hasn’t despite my obvious hinting that it would be nice if she did put something towards it.

As for worming I worm mine and keep in for 24/48 hours at the right time of year. But neither of the other two seem bothered. Plus the one with two swaps and changes horses with two on livery with ones from her home.

I don’t have a huge issue with feeding hay. After all if I did I would bring in in the stable and feed. It’s being told there are no fields to move into when there clearly are.

As for sectioning off, it has crossed my mind. But I know it’ll be my fencing that gets used and subsequently trashed. My battery and energiser and me maintaining it all. Jusr because the others are a bit clueless.

 

[BethanT]

In that scenario, I'd put them on individual turnout with half an acre each for the couple of months needed to let the seed take on the rest of it. You're already feeding hay anyhow, and in the long run it would be worth it. Not sure where you got fertilising from in my previous post.

No I know you didn’t mention fertilising just saying we aren’t allowed to. Even if we did do that, YM wouldn’t get it seeded. Getting them to do anything to maintain fairlds is a nightmare.

If it wasn’t for the fact everything else was spot on I don’t think I would be staying there. But there aren’t many yards in the area with the same facilities on offer.

 

[be positive]

My only issue with this is the poo picking. I simply don’t have time. Hence why I want my horses on a yard with larger fields so this wasn’t needed. I only have one horse in work at the moment as is without adding to the work load. If I had time I would be on a different Yard closer to home.

Thankfully one livery has two of the horses in the field and she has given me money for Hay. Other livery hasn’t despite my obvious hinting that it would be nice if she did put something towards it.

As for worming I worm mine and keep in for 24/48 hours at the right time of year. But neither of the other two seem bothered. Plus the one with two swaps and changes horses with two on livery with ones from her home.

I don’t have a huge issue with feeding hay. After all if I did I would bring in in the stable and feed. It’s being told there are no fields to move into when there clearly are.

As for sectioning off, it has crossed my mind. But I know it’ll be my fencing that gets used and subsequently trashed. My battery and energiser and me maintaining it all. Jusr because the others are a bit clueless.

4 acres with 4 on it will not be big enough to never poo pick or harrow, I have 3 out on 6 acres and it does not get picked but if not harrowed or topped it would be covered in weeds in no time, you are on one hand expecting the fields to be "managed" but on the other do not want to do the one thing that becomes essential if they are on a limited area and to my mind 1 acre per horse is very limited.
I would say ask for individual turnout but the basic management does become your responsibility and I expect if you moved elsewhere you would either have to poo pick, pay someone to do it or find the fields are as bad or worse than where you are now, if you are not on full livery I don't think you can really complain about anything apart from the 2 horses being swapped about randomly possibly bringing in worms or other issues.

There is no point in keeping in after worming all that is expelled then is dead worms so it is the time there are going to be no viable eggs to contaminate the field further.

 

[BethanT]

4 acres with 4 on it will not be big enough to never poo pick or harrow, I have 3 out on 6 acres and it does not get picked but if not harrowed or topped it would be covered in weeds in no time, you are on one hand expecting the fields to be "managed" but on the other do not want to do the one thing that becomes essential if they are on a limited area and to my mind 1 acre per horse is very limited.
I would say ask for individual turnout but the basic management does become your responsibility and I expect if you moved elsewhere you would either have to poo pick, pay someone to do it or find the fields are as bad or worse than where you are now, if you are not on full livery I don't think you can really complain about anything apart from the 2 horses being swapped about randomly possibly bringing in worms or other issues.

There is no point in keeping in after worming all that is expelled then is dead worms so it is the time there are going to be no viable eggs to contaminate the field further.

I agree 4 acres with 4 horses isn’t enough. But that is kind of my point in a round about way. We were told that there is no more grazing to put horses into to let the field rest, or reduce the horses in the field. There is another 4 acre field with one horse in (who has previously been out with other horses with no issue) and then two other fields of about 5 and 8 acres for one livery to swap her 3 horses around with as she pleases.

YM seem oblivious to the fact the land is totally horse sick and needs to be sorted out. If I had a spare hour a day to poo pick I would. But I am also not prepared to do so when neither of the other liveries in the field would. I would rather she was on a bigger field, but I don’t have that option to be able to move her.

My main point was how do I go about rectifying this with YM, as I sympathise that it is difficult to please everyone as I don’t want to upset them or make issues where there aren’t any. But surely the situation is not right?

 

[JFTDWS]

I have 3 on nearly 4 acres and I very definitely have to poo pick. It would be completely unsustainable if I didn't.

And I flipping hate it, because it's on a whacking great hill. But it needs doing!

 

[BethanT]

I have 3 on nearly 4 acres and I very definitely have to poo pick. It would be completely unsustainable if I didn't.

And I flipping hate it, because it's on a whacking great hill. But it needs doing!

I get this I really do. I was the one who was pulling up all the ragwort in both this field and my geldings field which is 4 times the size and like you on a massive hill!

When I first moved both horses were on big enough fields to not need to poo pick. As mentioned before I do not have the time to do this so I chose a Yard that meant I didn’t need to do this. Now, for reasons out of my control one horse has been moved to this smaller field, and initially just had two horses on it. But the numbers seem to keep going up. This obviously isn’t sustainable hence my asking if we can move/split to be told no spare fields and basically suck it up.

 

[JFTDWS]

But the numbers seem to keep going up.

Universal phenomenon. And I sympathise, but it's the way things are going. It's why I'm planning to move a bit north and buy my own land as soon as realistically possible. It's the only way you can get any real security and control, I think.

 

[honetpot]

I think a lot of people are where you are. Unless you all poo pick you are effectively doing everyone else.
I had four, not all horses on two acres but they where all mine, so if I wormed they were done all together. I only poo picked in summer, it was just too muddy in winter and I never had a high worm count.
I would ask to fence off an acre paddock. Clear that section of poo, you are feeding hay any way and then if we get some rain, cut it down to a third and give a chance for the rest to grow and reseed the bare bits. I did this when I was at livery, I think you will not get any where with the YO. I also used Suregrow when ever we had any rain, pulled ragwort and sprayed weeds.
The one thing about having your own patch is at least the mess is your own. I hate yards where every horse is their own box but understand how it happens. Mine have a large summer field that is never poo picked, its under water most of the winter, but the diet paddocks which vary in size depending on the grass growth are kept clear as much as possible, apart from winter.

 

[Nasicus]

Urgh, I sympathise OP, I've been on yards before where it's been different rules for different liveries, despite paying the same price! When I highlighted the issue, I got given all sorts of excuses as to why I couldn't use a particular field for my newly diagnosed osteoarthritic and very footsore pony for a couple weeks during a bad spell, and then a week later one of the 'in' liveries was allowed to put two of hers in it because they were 'getting fat'. I asked why she couldn't muzzle them, and was told it was cruel. I pointed out it was cruel to make my pony have to climb a slippery, hellishly steep field in her current condition and basically got told 'Tough Luck'.

It never really got resolved, but luckily a private yard to rent with 8 acres of flat fields came up 2min drive from my house, so I snapped that up and basically said 'seeya later *****lords!'. Pony is thankfully much better now, and back in work after rest/xray guided trims/cartrophen.

I've kind of rambled here, but I think the jist of it was, sometimes you just have to put it to them straight and politely explain that you don't see why x gets y and you're stuck with z. Their answer should be pretty telling as to whether it's worth staying there or not.

 

[JulesRules]

Just to clarify OP do you have a mare and a gelding that are in separate herds in different fields? Would they go out together?
Have you thought about asking for a paddock to put them out together?
I have my mare and gelding out together and poo pick daily which usually takes about 20 to 30 minutes a day if you keep on top of it.
You could also section off your paddock and graze half and rest half.

 

[HashRouge]

It's definitely not fair, but sadly that is unlikely to make a difference. The thought of what your field must look like if it's that over grazed and not poo picked sets my teeth on edge! Good turnout is the single most important thing for me so I would be having one last chat with the YO tor see if anything could be done, then if not I'd be looking for somewhere else.

 

[BethanT]

Just to clarify OP do you have a mare and a gelding that are in separate herds in different fields? Would they go out together?
Have you thought about asking for a paddock to put them out together?
I have my mare and gelding out together and poo pick daily which usually takes about 20 to 30 minutes a day if you keep on top of it.
You could also section off your paddock and graze half and rest half.

Yes I have one of each. They have been out together no problem, but they both then get very clingy with each other which makes the gelding tricky to do anything with. There also isn't a spare field for this to happen according to YM.

I think we are going to have to split the field in half, and I will have to tell the other two liveries in my field that the fencing is also their responsibility, and they will need to poo pick. I am happy to supply the hay if they can do my share of the picking. But somehow I don't see this being done. One will almost certainly be of the attitude "who are you to tell me what to do".

I think I might have to make the painful search of a new yard

I would love to have the horses at home, this is the ultimate goal!

 

[BethanT]

It's definitely not fair, but sadly that is unlikely to make a difference. The thought of what your field must look like if it's that over grazed and not poo picked sets my teeth on edge! Good turnout is the single most important thing for me so I would be having one last chat with the YO tor see if anything could be done, then if not I'd be looking for somewhere else.

Oh it is awful! The docks earlier this year were as tall as my mare, and shes 15hh. The ragwort in the hedge was over 6ft tall! I'll admit I didn't see it as it was down in the corner and my girl always comes to call to the gate, but no idea what the other people's excuse was to not seeing it.

I had requested that the farmer tops it, and this is getting done this week. Might also ask if they can harrow it as well to try and start afresh. On talking to the farmer he is spraying it next year with the weed killer, but obviously means horses need to come off it, so god knows where they will go!

 

[rascal]

Have you thought of renting grazing just for yours? Or maybe with a friend if time is short.
This is what we do, yard politics were driving us mad. We can do what we want, so long as we move our rubbish.

 

[BethanT]

Have you thought of renting grazing just for yours? Or maybe with a friend if time is short.
This is what we do, yard politics were driving us mad. We can do what we want, so long as we move our rubbish.

I couldn't afford to rent a second field and keep my stables at current yard, and in winter I need a school with flood lights as I don't get to the yard until after 6. It also just wouldn't be feasible money or time wise to have two horses in two different locations.

My gelding's field isn't actually a problem, just my mare's.

All of which is kind of besides the point. Why should I or any other livery have to make other arrangements for grazing on different land, when there is actually a perfectly good field for us to move into that belongs to the livery yard. But we aren't allowed because another livery has run of that one and another.

 

[Annagain]

The managment issues are always going to be there wth that many horses on that acreage but it certainly seems unfair that one livery has 4 acres to herself and another 4 acres have to be shared amongst 4 horses. Could you ask the YO if you could swap fields with the other livery - at least one horse grazing it will be less stressful for the ground and the 4 should have a bit more to eat.

 

[skint1]

Although it is frustrating if you are doing all the work and supplying the equipment, if you like the yard I would take a deep breath and do the work/ rest some of it now for your own sanity and your own horse's wellbeing. With the rain around there has been a good growth spurt around here (and 3 weeks ago it was like the desert) you could see if it grows back itself as our grass has done really very quickly, and it would probably benefit from a couple of month's rest.

 

[stormox]

Move yards if you dont like the way yours is being managed. A yard owner/manager has a thankless task - you can please some of the people all of the time or all of the people some of the time. I am sure she is doing the best she can.

 

[BethanT]

Move yards if you dont like the way yours is being managed. A yard owner/manager has a thankless task - you can please some of the people all of the time or all of the people some of the time. I am sure she is doing the best she can.

I do get this, but at present she is pleasing three liveries out of 10+.....

She is a lovely person, but hates conflict and confrontation, so it is a case of who shouts loudest gets what they want sadly.

 

[BethanT]

The managment issues are always going to be there wth that many horses on that acreage but it certainly seems unfair that one livery has 4 acres to herself and another 4 acres have to be shared amongst 4 horses. Could you ask the YO if you could swap fields with the other livery - at least one horse grazing it will be less stressful for the ground and the 4 should have a bit more to eat.

I highly doubt other livery with the one would swap fields. It is perfectly flat, and close to the yard, where mine is on a big slope and you have to walk that it further to get to it (no issue for me)

 

[Pearlsasinger]

The managment issues are always going to be there wth that many horses on that acreage but it certainly seems unfair that one livery has 4 acres to herself and another 4 acres have to be shared amongst 4 horses. Could you ask the YO if you could swap fields with the other livery - at least one horse grazing it will be less stressful for the ground and the 4 should have a bit more to eat.

This was exactly the reason that we left our livery yard, after 10 years. The owner knew that we had had an offer accepted to buy our own place and decided to prioritise his other customers. So we moved the horses to a friend's farm for the 3 months until we could bring them home.