Are we really a minority sport?

Hels_Bells said:
I think one of the things I have enjoyed the most on TV in recent years was the programme where they took non-riding celebrities and taught them to show jump (was it with Geoff Billington?) for charity. I think that reached out to a lot of non riding people and I think it was a great way to make people understand the skill and nerve required, whilst inspiring them to take up riding themselves. I don't know why there hasn't been another series!!?? I think this sort of "reality" thing could be a great starting point for getting the "someone elses" involved!
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You know, all the way through this debate I have been thinking of that show! In particular when Jenny (was that her name?) got told off for not seeing whether her horse was alright after falling off by the Irish show jumper. Was it Jessica? Haha. I loved that show and I also wonder why they didn't make a another series.

One post I remember reading about it said something a long the lines of people often wonder why show jumpers look so dour after finishing even a fantastic round. They also noted that at the start of the event the riders were really visually excited about doing well but as the competition went on and they got more competitive, the celebrities started to celebrate less and looked just like the professionals do. I thought it was a great way to broach the problem. Use non horsey people to show how it takes skill do it but, most importantly, it can be done and it can be fun as well!
 
I would imagine the pros in our sport are very glad of the fact they can do what they do and enjoy it and be at the top of their game and still be revered without having to suffer like most other "celebrities" with their personal business spread all over heat magazine, the tabloid press etc etc, so probably don't want to ramp up the publicity too much if they can avoid it. They can almost have their cake and eat it.
 
HuggyBear said:
One post I remember reading about it said something a long the lines of people often wonder why show jumpers look so dour after finishing even a fantastic round. They also noted that at the start of the event the riders were really visually excited about doing well but as the competition went on and they got more competitive, the celebrities started to celebrate less and looked just like the professionals do. I thought it was a great way to broach the problem. Use non horsey people to show how it takes skill do it but, most importantly, it can be done and it can be fun as well!
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Oooh interesting! I wasn't on HHO back then, but would have loved to have seen some of the posts etc relating to it.

Another thing that I think that could appeal from a tv perspective is the "brat camp" element where they could focus a tv show around some of the places that try to rehabilitate young offenders etc through working with horses.
 
Of course this discussion rages in the sport all over the world and I can tell you, relative to North America, horse sports have a HUGE presence over here.

Lots of valid analysis about but I don't think Hels_Bell's original point should go without comment. Sponsors and advertisers don't support sports just to raise their profile, they do so to raise their profile with very specific segments of the market. So a market that consists largely of little girls and middle aged women ;) is not going to be that attractive to advertisers because it is simply not a particularly lucrative one according to the masses and masses of research done on the subject. So it's a bit chicken and egg - without bringing more of the "Holy Grail" segments of the market into the viewing fold, the sport cannot attract the sort of money top sports command. You have only to look at the sort of ads running on H&C to see who they're aiming at!

Also, whenever this discussion comes up, it also raises the subject of whether or not the sport WANTS to increase its market. Are "we" willing to make the sort of changes and open ourselves to the reality of getting and keeping that increased market. Think of it on a small scale, say a local show. So you want to attract more people, specifically the sort of people who would not come to a horse show now . . . more kids, more vehicles, more noise, more activity . . . all things that horses, generally speaking, don't like! To be fair, horse shows in the UK are already much more like other sporting events than in many other parts of the world but still, masses of people waving giant foam fingers and singing fight songs along the perimeter could add a whole new level of excitement to the sport! :D

Also, are people keen to give up their traditions regarding dress, rules etc. Do we go "Twenty/20 cricket"? (I know nothing about cricket and found the Ashes deadly - hey, I'm not from around here :D - but find Twenty20 bearably interesting.)

And scandal sells! Horse sports in Canada got more mainstream news coverage from Eric's adventures than from anything else! That's quite hard to get people to sign on willingly for!

I do think the golf connection is the most interesting of all, since it has a profile more along the lines of riding, relative to many other "big ticket" sports. Perhaps that has something to do with the American market, though - although I don't dispute the stats above saying almost double the number of people ride regularly as play golf, I'm pretty sure that's not the case in the US. And again, it's that attractive target advertising market . . .

To be honest, I'm conflicted. I LIKE the sport the way it is. We're never going to reach a situation where the average recreational rider can offset their expenses - golf is very expensive and no one playing Saturday football is getting their expenses covered - so I'm not sure I want the top end of the sport to change radically just so it can make more money. Money doesn't necessarily make EVERYTHING better.
 
Hels_Bells said:
I would imagine the pros in our sport are very glad of the fact they can do what they do and enjoy it and be at the top of their game and still be revered without having to suffer like most other "celebrities" with their personal business spread all over heat magazine, the tabloid press etc etc, so probably don't want to ramp up the publicity too much if they can avoid it. They can almost have their cake and eat it.
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Quite. I agree with everything here.
 
Huggy Bear-Umm- can I pick both please?! If you could convince people that everyone can have a go (which they can), but to ride at the top takes special skill and dedication.
Its a pity we can't re-create the sheer grind of months getting up at ******-wit oclock, mud, rain and cold to show how the one day where the sun shines and it goes well is like getting ten years of your life back!

One thing I don't really see a lot of is showing people what personality/quirks the horse has- I used to brush event ponies for a living, and one friend has commented she enjoyed Burghely more because I knew some of the horses competing and knew little extras about them (that, and scandal, rumour and other libellous things!). We always love the cheeky horses or those with something to remember them for.

On a personal note, Clare Balding does nothing for me as a commentator- one friend even refuses to watch if she is on! Ditto Mike Tucker. They had Ian Stark and Tina Cook for red button stuff for some events and I though they were brilliant, and much easier to relate too. Its not a Balding/Tucker bash, simply that other people might provide a nice change!
 
HuggyBear said:
I completely followed up to this point. I am trying to decipher what that means but having no luck, can you translate.:o:o
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IFYSWIM - If You See What I Mean

Not to be confused with my personal internet fav, SWIM - Someone Who Isn't Me, seen mostly in forum conversations dealing with sensitive subject matter. :D
 
TarrSteps said:
... is not going to be that attractive to advertisers because it is simply not a particularly lucrative one according to the masses and masses of research done on the subject. So it's a bit chicken and egg - without bringing more of the "Holy Grail" segments of the market into the viewing fold, the sport cannot attract the sort of money top sports command. .
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Quite right. That is what we need to work on...If we want to. That is the crux.

Also, are people keen to give up their traditions regarding dress, rules etc. Do we go "Twenty/20 cricket"? (I know nothing about cricket and found the Ashes deadly - hey, I'm not from around here - but find Twenty20 bearably interesting.)
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Do you remember the original reaction to the BSJA change of policy to allow competitors to where blousons instead of jackets? It was a split between very different reactions. Some were "woohoo" then you had "it is all ruined, we are all ruined I tell you". Not exactly the words used but you get the point.:D Hehe.

And scandal sells! Horse sports in Canada got more mainstream news coverage from Eric's adventures than from anything else! That's quite hard to get people to sign on willingly for!
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Completely!
 
Brilliant thread :D

From looking at the figures the OP posted do we really need non-equines to get more TV coverage? I don't think we do I think there are enough horsey people to make it worth while. But they would need to choose broadcasting times carefully i.e when everyone is back from the yard around 7ish seems to be the busiest time on here.

If we do need non-equines what about showing a half hour special of thrills and spills? My very non-horsey ex loved watching the puissance and when people fell off. This is what we need more of, sounds sad but show a special of horse falls and I bet you would get loads of viewings then people would think that maybe horse riding is harder then they thought and start showing an interest in the sport.

Just a ponder, probably a load of rubbish :p
 
I have no idea about what Eric's adventures are but I was thinking before that most of us probably know something fairly scandalous about the pros in our sport "through the grapevine", yet we would never go out there and start shouting about it and publicising it - which is perhaps would happen in other sports. Is that because we have a lot of respect for our pros and what they do? Or maybe because the sort of people in our sport aren't interested in causing trouble in that way? hmmmm...

Don't really feel like I'm getting my point across on this one... but I sort of know what I mean IYSWIM :D :D :D (every day's a school day!).
 
Rosiefan said:
Only Fools on Horses. Maybe they couldn't find any more celebrities brave enough to give it a go :D
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Haha, I wouldn't be surprised. :D

paisley said:
On a personal note, Clare Balding does nothing for me as a commentator- one friend even refuses to watch if she is on! Ditto Mike Tucker. They had Ian Stark and Tina Cook for red button stuff for some events and I though they were brilliant, and much easier to relate too. Its not a Balding/Tucker bash, simply that other people might provide a nice change!
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Be careful, you may be getting in on BBC territory here and get a lawsuit landed on you for being shallow. Haha.:D

No, seriously, I agree. :)

Commentary, personalities (whether horse or human), the whole package has to be entertaining.

One thing anyone watching Rugby on television might have noticed in the last few years, is that the quality of the programmes- from the graphics used in the intros to the quality of coverage- has improved enormously. They make the game look sexy....which, no offence to Rugby players, watching someone with a cauliflower ear (who looks like a cross between a giant and Frankenstein with lots of blood and mud) doesn't make it easy for us to see the glamour.

One person REALLY helped- Johnny Wilkinson, you may also say that Gavin Henderson didn't hurt either. Oh, there was that whole Will Carling thing. They became celebrities and raised the sports profile. Became pin ups and one even became quite the dancer.:D



TarrSteps said:
IFYSWIM - If You See What I Mean

Not to be confused with my personal internet fav, SWIM - Someone Who Isn't Me, seen mostly in forum conversations dealing with sensitive subject matter. :D
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Thank you. I love it and shall be determined now to use it when I can.
 
Hmm, well William FP is supposed to be retiring after the Olympics- has anyone asked him how he feels about sequins and a bit of cha-cha-cha?!
 
Kokopelli said:
If we do need non-equines what about showing a half hour special of thrills and spills? My very non-horsey ex loved watching the puissance and when people fell off. This is what we need more of, sounds sad but show a special of horse falls and I bet you would get loads of viewings then people would think that maybe horse riding is harder then they thought and start showing an interest in the sport.

Just a ponder, probably a load of rubbish :p
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Not at all, it was in my thoughts as well when I thought of things that made the sport more exciting. There are a few "Thrills and Spills" videos on you tube of accidents and near misses that has me transfixed.

I do think we need non-horsey people, as said, the demographic that make up alot of the contigency of horsey people will not curry enough favour as we need to gain the interest needed for the television executives to want to pay for shows to be put on the air, regardless of who watches them.

Hels_Bells said:
I have no idea about what Eric's adventures are but I was thinking before that most of us probably know something fairly scandalous about the pros in our sport "through the grapevine", yet we would never go out there and start shouting about it and publicising it - which is perhaps would happen in other sports. Is that because we have a lot of respect for our pros and what they do? Or maybe because the sort of people in our sport aren't interested in causing trouble in that way? hmmmm...
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I think it is because we are British. Haha.

It could also be to do with the fact that the equestrian world is very close nit and everyone knows everyone's skeletons and living under each others feet. You often see the same people at the events on the "circuit" and if you said something publicly about them you would have to face bumping into them the next show.

So, who will be the first brave soul...:D
 
Great thread :D

Money is the big issue, followed by public perception (as much as Zara's input has the put the sport in the papers, having a Royal at the centre brings in the 'oh but it's for posh people' attitude). Less focus on WFP and more of likes of Phoebe Buckley... Also, viewers of the sport on tv have got to keep watching. One of the reasons they stopped showing the Gatcombe Open (an ideal competition for sunday afternoon tv) is because of ever decreasing viewer figures. The BBC lost Hickstead to Sky because of a.) the cost of bidding and b.) again viewing figures. Even the Derby has lost support over the years and it's one of the best horse related competitions to follow with a bit of drama over the bank.

I think the Olympics next year, especially if we do well (and the BBC rams it down peoples' throats that Team GB are the World Champs and hopefully still European Champs) may well start a change :D In terms of medal tables, the equestrian sports are going to give Team GB as a whole a potentially great 3 weeks of medal hauls. Sometimes it takes something like the Olympics on home turf to make people sit up and listen. Joe Bloggs will be tuning in next summer on a tuesday to watch Eastenders and find the Eventing show jumping on their screen. What better way to get the sport into the homes of the general non-horsey public?
 
teapot said:
Great thread :D

Money is the big issue, followed by public perception (as much as Zara's input has the put the sport in the papers, having a Royal at the centre brings in the 'oh but it's for posh people' attitude). Less focus on WFP and more of likes of Phoebe Buckley...
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Completely.

I also have to say I have really enjoyed this thread as well. Made my evening a lot more entertaining! A good old HHo debate. We need more of them.

Who would you put forward to be the "faces" of equestrian sport?
 
paisley said:
Hmm, well William FP is supposed to be retiring after the Olympics- has anyone asked him how he feels about sequins and a bit of cha-cha-cha?!
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snigger! :D
my OH begrudgingly watches sjing and eventing when its on TV and the only bits he likes are when people fall off or the puissance. he thinks that all sjers are fat and old (his words not mine!) and he really really hates rob whitaker- not sure why, he just does and cheers when he has a fence down!

do you think that part of the problem might be that people think its easy...? that the horse does everything. remember when zara was up for SPOTY and all my non horsey friends were saying that the horse should have won it not her...
 
TarrSteps said:
Of course this discussion rages in the sport all over the world and I can tell you, relative to North America, horse sports have a HUGE presence over here.
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Absolutely. I've attended the Hampton Classic the last two years, and was surprised at the low number of spectators considering it is regarded as one of the premier Hunter/Jumper shows in the United States. When I attend Badminton, on the other hand, almost everyone in my friend's Gloucestershire village attends, regardless of whether they're horsey or not.
 
HuggyBear said:
Completely.

I also have to say I have really enjoyed this thread as well. Made my evening a lot more entertaining! A good old HHo debate. We need more of them.

Who would you put forward to be the "faces" of equestrian sport?
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Geoff Billington & Ollie Townend for me!!
 
prosefullstop said:
Absolutely. I've attended the Hampton Classic the last two years, and was surprised at the low number of spectators considering it is regarded as one of the premier Hunter/Jumper shows in the United States. When I attend Badminton, on the other hand, almost everyone in my friend's Gloucestershire village attends, regardless of whether they're horsey or not.
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Is it true though that the American shows are run very business like, much more into making money? Having discussed with people who compete on the "a" circuit over there, they are much bigger events (people come from further and stay for longer) that makes them a bigger deal of money compared to what show organisers make here?

ETA: They are run by professional equestrian event organisers rather than the people who own the property that the show is held on.

Is this true?

Geoff Billington & Ollie Townend for me!!
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I love Geoff. Being small (read short), he makes me feel better about what you can do even when you are a shorty.:D
 
After a glass of sloe gin I might not be the full shilling, but I think it is a question of connection between viewer and subject. Thirty/forty years ago showjumpers both human and equine were household names. GB as a country was rather good at it and easily identifiable continental riders such as the D'Inzeo brothers and Hugo Simon were very popular, be cause they could be identified.
Totally non-horsey people watched HOYS and Olympia televised nightly because being indoors they were intimate and viewer friendly and the riders such as Harvey and David Broome and Ted Edgar looked like the bloke down the road wearing the the coat nearest the door and competing on what looked like the horse nearest the gate that morning. For us ladies there was Graham Fletcher and Nick Skelton and Eddie Macken (dig the hair boys).
Basically it looked like a sport anyone could do, now it doesn't.
 
siennamum said:
Geoff Billington & Ollie Townend for me!!
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Geoff yes, Oli no (to me he just comes across as arrogant I that's what we don't need), as I've already said Phoebe, and I actually think Zara would be very good as she's worked bloody hard despite what people think, erm, not sure who else...


and yes IYSWIM is if you see what I mean, sorry for the delay actually did a bit of revision :D :D
 
No if you include racing, I imagine a lot of those employed in the equine business are in racing or supported by racing.

Racing seems to be well covered and on tv quite a lot. I find racing boring to watch.

The other equine disciplines compared to racing have less supporters and and their coverage reflects this, think about how many people bet on the grand national and attend it.

Also non of the equine sports are taught in schools so not seen as accessible to many people.

I think cycling has the same problem - think of how many people cycle and how successful the british cyclists have been and how little coverage they get on tv.

The thing with both cycling and riding is that they can be done as a non sporting activity as well as being competitive. Football for example is nearly always played competitively - even at lower levels, even people playing football in the park mainly play against each other.
 
Kokopelli said:
I love him too for that reason!! He's so funny aswell, I remember seeing him at YHL one year and laughing my head off the entire display, very entertaining :D
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I remember watching all 5ft of him mount a 17hh horse from the ground and thinking I want to be able to do that with all 5ft 5 of me!
 
Geoff is fab - and Yorkshire so doubly fab :D :D :D - he is just like the horsey equivalent of Geoff Boycott in Cricket who comes on and says things like "oh for gods sake give it some welly lads" and makes everyone laugh! Despite the risk of starting an OT debate I have to say I agree, I think he comes across a bit arrogant. But then he would probably still appeal to the wider masses - you need a villain of the piece after all!!! :D
 
I think the success of cycling at the last olympics has given cycling quite an edge over riding for example. Also Chris Hoy got all his accolades etc and it has made loads of difference - can you imaging WFP on Tv advertising shredded wheat!!!?? Also I wish people would slow down for horses as much as they do for cyclists on the road!!
 
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