Are we really that wrong?

9tails said:
Get another instructor, there is no room for ego or jealousy in training a horse. Anyway, who is she going to teach if you get rid of/put down the horse?
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Sorry, I wasn't being clear. She has been teaching my husband and myself on our other horses. The Boy was only once in a lesson with her.

Already looking for another instructor as we speak!
 
Gerry-Boy said:
We're keeping our horses at home, we are the owners :) We've only got the yard help around (well, not anymore now) an the girl who works with him.
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Then you have a problem you can't let staff handle the horse .
Was the H and S executive informed .
A horse injuring someone's head is a serious matter .
 
JulesRules said:
If you are in Warwickshire I would recommend trying Vickie Jayne Yates.

She calls what she does 'inspirational horsemanship'. I don't buy into all of the reiki and communication type stuff but she is really sensitive and sympathetic with horses like yours and can help with groundwork, loading and ridden.

She is mad as a box of frogs (sorry Vicki if you are reading this) but also really lovely and gets results.

She is on facebook and has a website if you Google her.
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I was going to recommend Vicki as well. She is lovely, kind and sympathetic with the horses and has a wonderful way of working with them. I cannot recommend her enough. :)

Her website is:

http://www.vickijayneyates.co.uk/

She has come out and helped me with my horse numerous times and we both always really enjoy her sessions. When I've used other instructors my horse can get a bit tense and stressed, but this has never happened with Vicki. She really understands and listens to both of us and tailors the session to suit.
 
I don't think it is easy to evaluate things without seeing the horse in action etc.
What I would be confident to say, and what I'm sure you know already, is that if you do continue with this horse you will need good (and very regular) help with him. This doesn't come cheap at all, and the other expense to consider would be the usual ex-racer issues regarding Vets! So it could quite conceivably be a combination of behaviour and pain.
For me it's an all or nothing. You spend the £££ to get the help he needs or you accept he probably would be happier retired. It also wouldn't be wrong to PTS although there are obviously other options. It does make it easier when you have your own land. Good luck.
 
Gerry-Boy said:
Our instructor is very experienced, I am not so part of me thinks that she knows better.
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The problem with instructors is people who really need their help don't know enough to tell if the instructor is any good or not. Many can talk the talk but have yet to learn to crawl.
I once accompanied a pupil to a dealers to look at a horse. There was also another group looking at a horse. The person riding the horse was beyond useless. Dealer asked me I would mind if she left us to it as she had to go sort out the mess the other group where making. No problem says I but people really should bring an instructor when they are that novice. Speechless I was when she replied "That is their instructor".
I also think it is a little early to be shooting the horse.
 
Gerry-Boy said:
And that's exactly the other side of things and why I'm so worried to make the wrong decision. I couldn't forgive myself if something like this were to happen again. If he hurts somebody else.

I know he's got issues and he's got generally not a lot of respect for people and doesn't deal well with authority. With him it's more a trust thing, he trusts the girl and respects her for trusting him. I know that sounds stupid, I can't really explain it. She's not once used a whip or any force on him. When he's naughty she uses her voice and tells him off very firmly. Never shouts at him, always very calm but consequent. And he's responding so well to that.

For me he's way too much horse - and he knows it. It's very rare he will come out of the field with me leading him, he's happier with being led by my husband. I'm generally the one who gives him cuddles (he's such a softy, often falls asleep in my arms when I cuddle him), but I don't work with him.

With regards to the yard help, she used to work him a little before we found the girl but I was quite clear that I wanted the girl to handle him, there was only one occasion in the past months where I asked her if she could lunge him. She knew about the issues we've had with him (Facebook....) and decided to take him out without checking with me.

Again, I know that's no excuse for him, he shouldn't have reared up!
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You say he shouldn't rear and yes it's not ideal behaviour but if the horse is put in a position whereby he is not happy but the person handling him is not 'listening' to his subtle signals then he will, as will any horse, use stronger signals eg rearing. Sound to me like he has a bad past but is basically a good natured horse that needs time, care and someone prepared to 'listen' to him. Give him a chance but make sure your rider is insured to ride and handle him. So many horses are misunderstood and end up being sold over and over as dangerous or unhandleable when their attitude is actually the result of dangerous humans being allowed to mistreat the horse in the first place. Makes me mad. No such thing as a bad horse just bad owners.
 
Horse that are unpredictable are very often in pain I would be sending the horse for a problems with performance type workup from a vet that does that type of work all the time .
Someone local to you will know the right vet to do this I know who I would use up here so you need to find the right one down there .
Travelling and loading issues are often liked to pain as well IMO .
Horses will work and work for people they like and or respect work despite awful things wrong with them I have seen this time and time again .
 
Goldenstar said:
Then you have a problem you can't let staff handle the horse .
Was the H and S executive informed .
A horse injuring someone's head is a serious matter .
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Are you serious? I don't know anyone who handles horses on a regular basis who hasn't been injured at some point. Same as handling any animal there are risks, they are not machines and can and will react to unforseen things that can cause an accident.
 
ihatework said:
I don't think it is easy to evaluate things without seeing the horse in action etc.
What I would be confident to say, and what I'm sure you know already, is that if you do continue with this horse you will need good (and very regular) help with him. This doesn't come cheap at all, and the other expense to consider would be the usual ex-racer issues regarding Vets! So it could quite conceivably be a combination of behaviour and pain.
For me it's an all or nothing. You spend the £££ to get the help he needs or you accept he probably would be happier retired. It also wouldn't be wrong to PTS although there are obviously other options. It does make it easier when you have your own land. Good luck.
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Thank you for your opinion, I know there'll be even more expenses for us, trust me, I've spent so much money on that horse already, just to get him sound again :|

I'll have him checked by our physio again and possibly also the vet's just to be sure he's not in pain.

We've agreed that we'll see what the next few weeks bring, we'll get a behaviourist out and we'll see how the Boy does over the next few weeks. Then we'll make a decision
 
Gerry-Boy said:
Bit of a long story but I'm at a loss and totally don't trust myself anymore.

We bought the Boy in October as a nice and easy going leisure ride. Newbies we were/are we got him from a dodgy dealer, the horse was a mess, unhealed injury and months of neglect.
He was a nightmare to handle back then, huge abandonment issues, we had to bring at least one other horse out at all times.

We got his health issues fixed and he's had a lot of time to heal.

I was scared to ride him (confidence issues, he's chucked me off once, way too much horse for me) so we found him a lovely rider. She's only 16 but very very good with him, so understanding and she's worked incredibly hard to get him back to being a horse.
We do trust her and, more importantly, the Boy trusts her. She's done lots of ground work in the beginning, establishing a bond, then went on to riding him, now jumping. He's showing so much promise, loves jumping and is most of the time, a lovely lovely horse.

And then it went all bad about a month ago. We took him to his first Clear Round, he loaded with no problems and behaved impeccably at the venue. He clearly was enjoying himself very much. It was a very low key event, just at the local riding club, we thought it'd be great to see how he does. It became clear he'd been evented in his previous home.

A week later we took him again, he loaded ok at home, was a bit reluctant first but then went on the trailer.
Same venue, he was again very very good and enjoyed himself very much.

When we wanted to go back home he refused to go on the trailer. It took us 3 hours and a trip home to fetch another horse until he would finally go on the trailer.

We're not sure why he wouldn't load, we've got a camera in the trailer and he was enjoying the ride. Happy ears, looked out of the window, nibbled his hay, wasn't sweaty/excited when unloaded.

He had a few days off in the field and then his loaner came out to try and work on the loading issues.
He very strongly refused, there was no way he was going to get on that trailer, not even with another horse on there.
This was the first time he's reared up. Ever.

Ok, so back in the field, think of a plan B.
Over the next few days we gave him lots of time to process, worked with him to come out to the yard to see there's nothing bad there, got him to come out reluctantly and then quite happily.
The girl rode him last Wednesday and he was his usual lovely self. He was alone in the arena with no issues.

On the Thursday our yard help, without my permission, decided to take him out of the field to exercise him. He refused to come, her story is that he reared up and hit her on the head.
I do believe she provoked him as I know she used to slap him with the leadrope when he wouldn't come.

But that's not important, it's very very bad and a horrible thing and we're utterly shocked. Luckily the yard help "only" needed stitches on her head and was otherwise fine. I don't want to imagine what could have happened!!!

Anyway, we are now being pressured to put him down as he's uncontrollable and a liability. Our riding instructor emailed me yesterday to say either I put him down/re-home him immediately or she won't come out to teach us anymore

I know we have a huge problem - but am I really so wrong in wanting to give this horse another chance? We've spoken with the girl who loans him and her mum and both are happy for her to continue working with him (which at the moment is only picking poo in the field he's in). We've made it a rule that there always has to be an adult present and that she is to wear a hat at all times.

I just don't know what to think anymore, yes, I know we have a massive problem that needs fixing immediately. I'd rather have him gone today than tomorrow but he's an ex racer TB with issues - who's going to take a horse like that? Unless another dodgy dealer :|
But putting him down?

I'd be really grateful for your opinions - sorry for the long post :| We're not too experienced with horses (I've had horses for around 6 years and my husband for about 3 years, they were at a livery yard though) we've never intended to get a "nutter" like that, we trusted the wrong people and ended up with one and then decided to do the responsible thing and fix him up and give him a chance.

Thank you :(
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Is it possible something as simple as a tooth issue that could be the problem so making the horse more sensitive, The heavy handedness of some horse people has caused us problems with our horses in the past which is why we are reluctant to let others handle them. My daughters mare became head shy and started to become difficult to catch, she would come up to you in the field and as soon as you tried to put the head collar on would turn away. The cause another livery who would sit outside her box talking to a friend, our mare would put her head over and she would slap it away. We moved the box and now have to reassure her in the field with no sudden movements to catch her. It took quite awhile to regain her confidence.
 
Crugeran Celt said:
You say he shouldn't rear and yes it's not ideal behaviour but if the horse is put in a position whereby he is not happy but the person handling him is not 'listening' to his subtle signals then he will, as will any horse, use stronger signals eg rearing. Sound to me like he has a bad past but is basically a good natured horse that needs time, care and someone prepared to 'listen' to him. Give him a chance but make sure your rider is insured to ride and handle him. So many horses are misunderstood and end up being sold over and over as dangerous or unhandleable when their attitude is actually the result of dangerous humans being allowed to mistreat the horse in the first place. Makes me mad. No such thing as a bad horse just bad owners.
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Thank you so much for your kind words!

The first thing we did when she started riding him was get her the BHS gold membership so that she's covered were anything to happen to her.

I'm feeling so much better after having read all the helpful comments!
 
Schollym said:
Is it possible something as simple as a tooth issue that could be the problem so making the horse more sensitive, The heavy handedness of some horse people has caused us problems with our horses in the past which is why we are reluctant to let others handle them. My daughters mare became head shy and started to become difficult to catch, she would come up to you in the field and as soon as you tried to put the head collar on would turn away. The cause another livery who would sit outside her box talking to a friend, our mare would put her head over and she would slap it away. We moved the box and now have to reassure her in the field with no sudden movements to catch her. It took quite awhile to regain her confidence.
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Don't think it's his teeth, he's had them done a month ago, we've got a very good dentist and he didn't find any issues.

I think it's as you say, he needs time and patience at the moment. Once he's reassured we can start working with him again - at the moment all we're working towards is getting him onto the yard for feeding/grazing. He's not put under any pressure.
 
Goldenstar said:
Then you have a problem you can't let staff handle the horse .
Was the H and S executive informed .
A horse injuring someone's head is a serious matter .
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If, as I suspect, the 'help' is self-employed it is up to her to notify anyone she feels the need to notify. If she has any sense she will be insured and pay tax but she doesn't sound as if she has much sense.


OP, I wouldn't pts your horse on the say-so of the RI and the 'help', neither of whom sound worth their salt. Why on earth would the RI decide not to come to your yard to teach you on other horses, based on an incident when she wasn't present - that makes no sense to me! But if she doesn't want your money - fine!
I would have a chiro-vet check out your horse and have the trailer thoroughly checked.
I know a horse who hated travelling in a trailer but loaded well onto our lorry, she even had to get off and back on again within 10 mins and did it quite happily.

OP, BHS Gold covers a 3rd party, not the rider - it is only public liability, your rider needs personal injury insurance as well.
 
First point - what has happened to the yard "help" is unfortunate, but she went out to the field to catch your horse without permission, and knowingly went to handle a horse that has known issues that I get the impression are no secret - where was her hat? When I worked on yards if you went to handle the stallion, any youngster or a horse known to have issues, you wore a hat.

I'd also be asking why the yard "help" took it upon herself to go to catch your horse as I believe in most cases your insurance only covers people who have the owners express permission to handle. If (heaven forbid) her injuries were worse, she may not have been covered under your insurance.

Secondly - for the 16 year old, I would advise her to wear a hat when handling the horse and ensure that your insurance covers her incase of injury.

I would also liase with your vet regarding if there could be a reason for the not loading as it sounds like he is getting worse, so is there something in the trailer/box making a noise? Are the tyre pressures even? Is he maybe sore somewhere causing him pain when he has to balance?

Personally, as the horse has shown vast improvement, I would be loathe to PTS just yet.
 
I can see why your boy has reacted like he has. You say he had severe separation issues when you first got him. You worked on those and mainly overcame them. So, as soon as he seemed fine, he gets trailered off to a show. Nothing wrong in that, but from his point of view, just as he is trusting that his new found friends may be a permanent set up, he is taken away. All his insecurities resurface. At the show he sees more horses - potential new herd mates, but then he is moved again, back home. But is this really permanent? He's going to make sure it is! I think he needs a lot more time when he 'seems' okay before going to a show again. You need to view this as starting all over again. Ditch the instructor too.

It doesn't sound like your boy is a confirmed rearer to me. Try to find a trainer who will work with him on the long reins. It is easier to deal with rearing on long reins than ridden. My own mare who was rearing a lot has benefitted significantly from an understanding trainer who worked with her on the long reins (which I had given up on because she was too reactive to them). I now work her on the long reins hacking out, over small jumps and in the school. She only gets ridden once a week at the moment. She hasn't reared for several weeks. This is after a session with a rider where she reared vertical many times (I'm talking around 20!). She hasn't reared in any situation, ridden or otherwise for four weeks now. She's looking amazing. Working beautifully over her back. Going out alone and in company leading from the front. No napping and certainly no rearing. Get the right trainer, and I'm sure your horse can be turned around.
 
poor horse doesn't want to do competitions and travel. why not just have him as a pet to love and groom and ride every now and then.
 
Your instructor would take a gun to my horse herself if she thinks yours is bad. She's seen hardly any problem horses if a couple of rears in pressure situations scares her.

Get a new instructor and maybe a natural horsemanship one again. He needs help, not put down. You are giving him that help and understand him better.

I got told the same about my horse, he's a nutter, dangerous, send him off to a dealer to be someone else's problem etc. Turns out he had kissing spine. Doesn't stop him being a nervous horse though, that's just the way he is. But he's a lot better now after treatment than he was beforehand. Doubt that's your horses problem though, just showing how even experts can be wrong.
 
I cannot advise on your horse but i will tell you about my old horse who is still with me in retirement and is still a much loved happy horse I could eventually hack bareback and bitless. I bought him as a 2 year old Lipi/Arab just castrated. He had already learnt what fun it could be to scare people handling him, his default move was rearing and he would pull back and break free at the slightest excuse. I was fairly experienced at that time thankfully and trimmed his feet myself for a few months to avoid fights with a farrier, did not let anybody else handle him apart from a lovely girl who knew how to avoid his flash points (she had a similar horse she doted on). I backed him and rode him away myself as I realised there was a good chance he would fight a stranger and would be stressed by being moved to another yard anyway. I tried having lessons with various instructors and gave up when they failed to understand putting pressure on him resulted in total non cooperation. I had lessons on other horses and took my knowledge back home and worked with him on my own until coming across a western rider who could think outside the box and was willing to try various ways of keeping the horse happy while coaxing him into an outline and using himself properly under me. He has always hated trailers but will happily load and travel in a lorry where he can face the rear.

Your horse may have physical problems but the point I am trying to make is that some horses have very definite ideas about how they want to be handled and ridden and are prepared to show extreme displeasure at treatment or individuals they object to. It does not make them bad horses, just not suitable for many owners, riders or instructors. The key is finding a method and people they will accept. Thankfully you seem to have found such a person for your horse. I would certainly not give up on him, just take precautions to ensure he is not put in situations where he might hurt somebody and get help from somebody who understands such horses.
 
Wagtail said:
I can see why your boy has reacted like he has. You say he had severe separation issues when you first got him. You worked on those and mainly overcame them. So, as soon as he seemed fine, he gets trailered off to a show. Nothing wrong in that, but from his point of view, just as he is trusting that his new found friends may be a permanent set up, he is taken away. All his insecurities resurface. At the show he sees more horses - potential new herd mates, but then he is moved again, back home. But is this really permanent? He's going to make sure it is! I think he needs a lot more time when he 'seems' okay before going to a show again. You need to view this as starting all over again. Ditch the instructor too.

It doesn't sound like your boy is a confirmed rearer to me. Try to find a trainer who will work with him on the long reins. It is easier to deal with rearing on long reins than ridden. My own mare who was rearing a lot has benefitted significantly from an understanding trainer who worked with her on the long reins (which I had given up on because she was too reactive to them). I now work her on the long reins hacking out, over small jumps and in the school. She only gets ridden once a week at the moment. She hasn't reared for several weeks. This is after a session with a rider where she reared vertical many times (I'm talking around 20!). She hasn't reared in any situation, ridden or otherwise for four weeks now. She's looking amazing. Working beautifully over her back. Going out alone and in company leading from the front. No napping and certainly no rearing. Get the right trainer, and I'm sure your horse can be turned around.
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Thank you for your comment, the bit about separation anxiety makes sense, I hadn't seen it that way. Just saw that he was relaxed and happy at the club and to be honest it didn't occur to me that it might trigger his separation anxiety. Makes total sense though!

Luckily he's never reared with a rider on but we will definitely get a knowledgeable person out to evaluate him and see how we can help him.
 
Downton Dame said:
poor horse doesn't want to do competitions and travel. why not just have him as a pet to love and groom and ride every now and then.
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Well, that's the thing, he showed no signs that he didn't enjoy it! To the contrary, he went on the trailer so willingly and had a great time at the first outing. We could all see how happy he was, really! When we came back we put him straight out into the field to his friends.

The second time he was a bit reluctant to load but no real issue. Again, he was relaxed on the way there and perfect at the event. He loved all the attention he got and he does love to work so he did thoroughly enjoy himself.

If there had been any signs that he didn't want to be travelled/competed I wouldn't have allowed it but he honestly seemed so happy and relaxed.
 
I was told my mare should be put down by different people because she was dangerous but really she had zero confidence and when she was scared that's when she'd become dangerous. I am now a month or two away from riding. I think that you shouldn't give up on him just yet.
 
planete said:
I cannot advise on your horse but i will tell you about my old horse who is still with me in retirement and is still a much loved happy horse I could eventually hack bareback and bitless. I bought him as a 2 year old Lipi/Arab just castrated. He had already learnt what fun it could be to scare people handling him, his default move was rearing and he would pull back and break free at the slightest excuse. I was fairly experienced at that time thankfully and trimmed his feet myself for a few months to avoid fights with a farrier, did not let anybody else handle him apart from a lovely girl who knew how to avoid his flash points (she had a similar horse she doted on). I backed him and rode him away myself as I realised there was a good chance he would fight a stranger and would be stressed by being moved to another yard anyway. I tried having lessons with various instructors and gave up when they failed to understand putting pressure on him resulted in total non cooperation. I had lessons on other horses and took my knowledge back home and worked with him on my own until coming across a western rider who could think outside the box and was willing to try various ways of keeping the horse happy while coaxing him into an outline and using himself properly under me. He has always hated trailers but will happily load and travel in a lorry where he can face the rear.

Your horse may have physical problems but the point I am trying to make is that some horses have very definite ideas about how they want to be handled and ridden and are prepared to show extreme displeasure at treatment or individuals they object to. It does not make them bad horses, just not suitable for many owners, riders or instructors. The key is finding a method and people they will accept. Thankfully you seem to have found such a person for your horse. I would certainly not give up on him, just take precautions to ensure he is not put in situations where he might hurt somebody and get help from somebody who understands such horses.
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Thank you! I think the Boy is the same, he has very strict ideas of how he wants to be handled. It's not about getting out of work, he loves work, but he does want to be treated with respect and not "beaten into submission". That's when he'll fight you.

I will get him checked again by vet and physio just to rule out any issues. His last physio was in May I think.
 
cobsarefab said:
I was told my mare should be put down by different people because she was dangerous but really she had zero confidence and when she was scared that's when she'd become dangerous. I am now a month or two away from riding. I think that you shouldn't give up on him just yet.
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Thank you. I think with him it all comes down to confidence! He's not a confident horse, he's anxious and puts a lot of trust in his rider.

Something at the two outings must have triggered a bad memory from his past and I think that's why he's acting up now. We just need to find a way to bring him back :|
 
blitznbobs said:
So he rears once and won't load and now people want you to put him down? Really that's all he's done? Sounds strange to me
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This! Unless there are huge chunks missing in this story I can't fathom why any trainer would recommend putting a horse down as it reared once (possibly twice if yard help's story of events is to be believed!). Lots of horses don't travel well in trailers/are ******* to load, it doesn't mean they a) don't enjoy competing (your OP suggests otherwise) and b) need to be PTS and I'm genuinely surprised a professional would suggest it. Then again, I wouldn't call a horse that had reared because it didn't want to load a "nutter" so perhaps there is more to this than meets the eye.

In your shoes I would find someone sympathetic to help with the loading, perhaps get my vet out to give a once over to check there's nothing physically wrong and then look to find a more suitable trainer to help you/your sharer continue to bring this boy on.
 
FestiveFuzz said:
This! Unless there are huge chunks missing in this story I can't fathom why any trainer would recommend putting a horse down as it reared once (possibly twice if yard help's story of events is to be believed!). Lots of horses don't travel well in trailers/are ******* to load, it doesn't mean they a) don't enjoy competing (your OP suggests otherwise) and b) need to be PTS and I'm genuinely surprised a professional would suggest it. Then again, I wouldn't call a horse that had reared because it didn't want to load a "nutter" so perhaps there is more to this than meets the eye.

In your shoes I would find someone sympathetic to help with the loading, perhaps get my vet out to give a once over to check there's nothing physically wrong and then look to find a more suitable trainer to help you/your sharer continue to bring this boy on.
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No, I've been completely honest with you guys, haven't missed out anything. The reason I'm calling him idiot, nutter and crazy is because he's too much horse for me to handle and when he got here last October, in pain from his old untreated injury, he lost the plot a few times and was actually difficult and dangerous to be around. He's made immense progress and is, well, was until a few weeks ago, almost like a normal horse :)

I'm more the cob-person, I like a nice and gentle horse that's easy to read and won't do anything silly (within reason, obviously, I know horses are animals and will always do silly things). What I wasn't prepared for was a big, insecure beast with issues - hence why he's being called nutter.
 
Gerry-Boy said:
No, I've been completely honest with you guys, haven't missed out anything. The reason I'm calling him idiot, nutter and crazy is because he's too much horse for me to handle and when he got here last October, in pain from his old untreated injury, he lost the plot a few times and was actually difficult and dangerous to be around. He's made immense progress and is, well, was until a few weeks ago, almost like a normal horse :)

I'm more the cob-person, I like a nice and gentle horse that's easy to read and won't do anything silly (within reason, obviously, I know horses are animals and will always do silly things). What I wasn't prepared for was a big, insecure beast with issues - hence why he's being called nutter.
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Please stop, it just gives other people an unfair and biased first impression. He is a normal horse, not almost like a normal horse.
 
I would expect the 'yard help' to need to fill in an accident form, seeing as the injury required medical treatment and was caused by your horse whilst she was working for you. Do you have employer's liability insurance? The rules have been tightened up re employing freelancers to work regular hours, they need to be properly put on the books now.

The insurance re the 16 year old certainly needs looking into more closely. Is she being paid?
 
Many years ago (15+) I was on a yard where they had a rather stupid hired-help. One day a few of us all decided to go for a hack. This hired-help joined us on one of the other ponies and very stupidly she decided to ride the one that was retired and half blind and didn't ask for permission(she wasn't employed to have anything to do with this pony). Half way round one of the horses spooked causing the pony to bolt and she fell off and broke her wrist. The next week the YO got a letter from her solicitor saying she was going to sue for personal injury. I was quite friendly with the YO and my sister is a solicitor and so we sent a letter back explaining that if she took legal action then we would too over the unauthorised use of the pony which could have put the pony and the other riders at risk. We never heard anything else from her.
 
I had a pony that I used to do lots with, and she sometimes wouldn't load after hunting. Just what you need when you are tired and want to go home. I put it down to over excitement, so maybe your horse enjoyed himself too much at the show, although the fact that he didn't want to load into the trailer again is odd.

Are you sure your trailer is OK? The floor is sound, the suspension is good, the tyres are correctly inflated and it is level when hitched and you drive slowly and carefully?

Since you state that you are not that experienced I really think a visit from someone like Richard Maxwell or a Monty Roberts Recommended Associate would be a good idea, they have had so much experience with horses with problems and will give you lots of advice and what to work out.

I don't think this horse sounds dangerous enough to pts either!
 
Gerry-Boy said:
No, I've been completely honest with you guys, haven't missed out anything. The reason I'm calling him idiot, nutter and crazy is because he's too much horse for me to handle and when he got here last October, in pain from his old untreated injury, he lost the plot a few times and was actually difficult and dangerous to be around. He's made immense progress and is, well, was until a few weeks ago, almost like a normal horse :)

I'm more the cob-person, I like a nice and gentle horse that's easy to read and won't do anything silly (within reason, obviously, I know horses are animals and will always do silly things). What I wasn't prepared for was a big, insecure beast with issues - hence why he's being called nutter.
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My take on it is that you took on a horse that you shouldn't have but that you have done a relatively good job despite the professional help, there have been a few issues along the way and now it has been blown up out of all proportion following him rearing when probably being badly handled, there is no need to call him a nutter, terms such as this are used nowadays so much that no one really thinks what they are saying, every horse that has a bit of a buck is a bronking rodeo horse, if it takes off for a few strides it has bolted, if everything was taken literally I think most of us would give up riding these dangerous animals.

You have done the right thing by removing the pros from your life, they are not right for you or your horse, I have dealt with many difficult horses and only 1 has ever given me reason to tell the owner to pts that was a rearer that flipped over numerous times without a rider and despite my warnings not to ride it did the same with a rider on board, luckily she survived, a horse that rears in hand when put under stress is not a bad horse and if that is "all" he has done is not a reason to pts, it is unfortunate the person was injured but it sounds as if the horse was provoked and she was not capable of handling it's reaction, poor horsemanship not bad horse.

You do need to think about your insurance as the horse is now a "known rearer" if anything similar happened you may find you are not covered, I think someone on here had problems insuring one that reared under saddle which is slightly different but insurance companies will not cover a known risk so that is something to bear in mind and for his rider and her parents to be aware of, as already mentioned BHS cover is 3rd party so will not cover riders, it will not cover handlers who are being paid but if they are self employed they should have their own anyway.
 
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