Are we really that wrong?

Gerry-Boy said:
No, I've been completely honest with you guys, haven't missed out anything. The reason I'm calling him idiot, nutter and crazy is because he's too much horse for me to handle and when he got here last October, in pain from his old untreated injury, he lost the plot a few times and was actually difficult and dangerous to be around. He's made immense progress and is, well, was until a few weeks ago, almost like a normal horse :)

I'm more the cob-person, I like a nice and gentle horse that's easy to read and won't do anything silly (within reason, obviously, I know horses are animals and will always do silly things). What I wasn't prepared for was a big, insecure beast with issues - hence why he's being called nutter.
Click to expand...

9tails said:
Please stop, it just gives other people an unfair and biased first impression. He is a normal horse, not almost like a normal horse.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with 9tails. It's admirable that you're willing to admit you're overhorsed and out of your depth with this horse but it's grossly unfair to label him a "nutter" due to your inexperience and is quite possibly contributing to those around you suggesting he be PTS. What you described in your OP sounds more like an insecure horse in inexperienced hands rather than something "crazy" or a "nutter" that needs to be PTS.
 
I certainly wouldn't even consider having my horse PTS on the opinion of irrelevant people.
I have a pony that has been terribly treated, & while he's getting better- he has days and moments where if something happens that he doesn't like he will rear, kick, spin you name it... not to hurt you, but to get away from something that might hurt him. Do I deem him dangerous? No, he's misunderstood but honest with it.
I had people tell me to put him to sleep, but in the words of my farrier "it'll take time, but he'll come right- just persevere" and when he has his moments that's what I reflect back on.
If he's too much for you then maybe you should consider letting this girl have him? Maybe keep the arrangement as is for the moment and as time goes on increase it as their relationship continues to flourish. It's clear that he's not the right horse for you, that doesn't make you a terrible owner or anything else, just sometimes that's the way it goes.
 
This is a horse who came from a dodgy dealer with physical issues. A week ago you were looking for a dealer to send him to. Now something has happened, you dont know the details but someone was injured and the professionals are telling you to PTS. I think thats a viable option.

It would be wrong to sell him and it wouldnt end well for him. You cant manage this horse safely as you cant get him in and out of the field. It doesnt matter if its your fault for not having enough experience or not, it doesnt change the situation. If you employ someone else and there is an accident you will now be liable. If the young girl is injured you will be liable. People are lovely, but if someone ends up with a head injury and needs a lifetime of care they will soon stop being so lovely.

Your insurance company wont pay out and you could end up losing everything. Its not necessarily right, but it is the way things are.

You need to have a serious think about this horses future and what is right for him and you.
 
I think a lot depends on factors like How old is the horse? is there any possibility he could be re schooled? Doess his current rider mind not competing?I didnt read anything about the horses owner not being to get him in and out of the field, only that he had reared once with the stable hand and (probably by chance) caught her on the head. and that he wouldnt load 2 or 3 times.
So the horse reared a few times. If every horse that had ever reared a few times was put down thatd be a very sad situation. Horses are horses and do horse things. Rearing is one of them. A handler should just stand back, keep away from any flying front hooves and let the horse come back down.
As far as I can understand the horse is riding well and jumping- I am sure he will soon learn rearing doesnt get him anywhere with consistant handling. And I should get another less defeatist instructor!
 
Last edited:
Gerry-Boy said:
he has very strict ideas of how he wants to be handled. It's not about getting out of work, he loves work, but he does want to be treated with respect and not "beaten into submission". That's when he'll fight you.
Click to expand...
Sounds just like my boy! And I certainly wouldn't even consider PTS (even though I'm the first shout about there being far worse fates than the bullet) I think your boy is just fussy about who handles him so i'd be inclined to indulge him on it (I do with mine and hes perfect for those he likes) ensure correct insurance is in place and as long as the 16yr old and her parents are happy with it I would continue to let her work with him after he's a thorough check from the vet to rule out any kind of the usual pain/cushings/hormones etc that could account for a sudden change. As for the loading that could well be pain related but my friend seems to have a similar issues with a few of hers who will be great then suddenly decide nope not today thanks! My boy has always literally loaded himself since we worked on his issues but he did once randomly rear (he's never ever reared before or since) and refuse but eventually got him on and it's never happened since, they do have their own minds and opinions and a strong sense of self preservation (if somewhat skewed sometimes) so just take time out and listen to what he's telling you.. I think you sound like a fantastic owner.. good luck x
 
Last edited:
Just a thought but just realised re read original post and you say it all went wrong a month ago, you also say in reply to someone (sorry can't recall who) that teeth were done a month ago? Could the two be related and dentist took too much off? Happened to my mums horse horse donkeys years ago and left him in a right state bless him
 
your poor horse needs someone who is really quiet and very sympathetic to work with him. he has clearly been scared and needs time. I really hope you find someone who can help you - it's not your fault I would suggest you have been badly advised and people don't always know what to do. I hope you manage to sort it out I a positive way
 
spacefaer said:
A very minor point, but how can an ex-racehorse not have a microchip?

Are you sure he has raced? Are you sure he is thoroughbred?
Click to expand...

I'm so glad I wasn't the only person thinking this....

I think horse of random unknown breeding is probably more likely.
 
spacefaer said:
A very minor point, but how can an ex-racehorse not have a microchip?

Are you sure he has raced? Are you sure he is thoroughbred?
Click to expand...

Hi, I'm not sure of anything to be honest. When I first met him at the dealer I got told he was an ex racer, got shown his passport which had the microchip number on and got told about his (alleged) past.

When I then got him delivered to my house they "forgot" the passport. Silly me, now I know I should have sent him straight back but then I was so naive and believed them. He was perfect for about 10 days and then started to behave really badly. Chucked me off in the arena, went mad on the lunge etc.
We then had him checked by the vet who discovered he hasn't got a microchip - then the physio was out to discover he'd had an untreated injury from his past life.

That's when I realized I'd been conned. So basically I have no idea who that horse is.

My ex-instructor confirmed that he looked like he's raced (movement and body) and the vet did confirm he's a TB - so at least that's true.

I don't think this poor horse had a good life, my physio suggested he got taken away from his mum way too early which might explain his abandonment issues.
 
Gerry-Boy said:
Hi, I'm not sure of anything to be honest. When I first met him at the dealer I got told he was an ex racer, got shown his passport which had the microchip number on and got told about his (alleged) past.

When I then got him delivered to my house they "forgot" the passport. Silly me, now I know I should have sent him straight back but then I was so naive and believed them. He was perfect for about 10 days and then started to behave really badly. Chucked me off in the arena, went mad on the lunge etc.
We then had him checked by the vet who discovered he hasn't got a microchip - then the physio was out to discover he'd had an untreated injury from his past life.

That's when I realized I'd been conned. So basically I have no idea who that horse is.

My ex-instructor confirmed that he looked like he's raced (movement and body) and the vet did confirm he's a TB - so at least that's true.

I don't think this poor horse had a good life, my physio suggested he got taken away from his mum way too early which might explain his abandonment issues.
Click to expand...

He may well be an ex racehorse but your vet cannot "confirm" he is a tb just by looking at him, my vet thought my ISH was a tb and seemed surprised when I told him he wasn't.

As for the separation anxiety, plenty of horses suffer from this and it has nothing to do with when they were weaned and is all about how they have been trained, brought up and handled, he is still a very young horse that has probably gone through a lot in his short life, if he is given a chance now he may well turn out to be a useful horse in the future, take time he needs to have time to think, learn and at his age, I think he is only 6?, he is still not fully mature so will improve in every way if he gets the chance to.
 
Yeah definitely don't listen when people say he looks like a tb. I had an instructor who thought my half oldenburg, half connemara gelding was a tb. Not even slightly close haha. Had to laugh though as he asked if he had raced.
 
I don't know where you are, but before you write off this poor horse please get someone to help, someone who can read him and work out what is causing the extreme reactions. Normally a horse won't waste energy unless he has good reason - pain or fear.
The people on this list are very good and well trained, and usually not horrendously expensive. http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/recommended-trainers/
In terms of writing off what you paid for him it could be a drop in the ocean to get him safe and happy, and if they think he has been too badly damaged they will tell you. Rather than people on here who have never seen him?
 
EVERY horse that has raced has a microchip. He would not have been allowed near a racetrack or trainers yard without a weatherbys passport and for that he would need a microchip.
Basically you have a young horse with no breeding who probably never got broken in correctly.
Hardly a reason to euthanise him. It sounds like the girl who is riding him is doing a great job. I think you should let her carry on, get a new instructor and a more sympathetic yard help.
 
Last edited:
Just to be boring... I would also have the vet check over him for any physical issues. Extra work, co petition syress etc could offlaired something up loke ulcers etc making him uncomfortable and grumpy
 
Gerry-Boy said:
Thank you! That gives me real hope!!

We're based in Warwickshire - if anybody knows someone, whether that's an instructor or a behaviourist please let me know!
Click to expand...

Look up Sheila Jones, she is in Cotswolds but travels. She is IH, brilliant, trained with KM, and just sheer magic to watch. She resolved a mounting issue for me after I had a serious accident. She doesn't cost the earth either.
 
Firstly, why the f-ing hell is the yard help trying to exercise a horse that she's not been asked to exercise!! its her own stupid fault!

My horse spent a lot of time rearing, as a 2-5 year old, people thought I was stupid for working him through it!! it was mainly because he had pain issues and after treatment, pain memory! He's not 7 and he's amazing! my yard manager often says how proud she is of me for working through it all and at 1 point she too thought he needed to be PTS.

If your instructor doesn't want to work with you - F her, find someone that is willing to help!! trust me, there are people out there!! I had a show jumper that came out to ride my boy the first few times, guess what, he never reared with him, because he knew his boundaries. He reared with me because I was not confident in what I was asking him to do!! and quite frankly I had to find the balls to ride him, because I couldn't afford to keep paying others to do it!!

I am so very proud of what I have achieved over the last year!! I had a horse I couldn't hack alone this time last year, and horse that wouldn't keep all 4 feet on the floor in the school 6 months ago!!

now I have a horse that I trust completely, I can take anywhere, he's learnt to trust me and I can now get him past any monster, which I wouldn't have been able to do a year ago!!

if a couple of rears, not wanting to come in from the field and refusing to load is all you have to deal with, then you're lucky!! you CAN and you WILL get over it!

GOOD LUCK
 
Hi All

I just wanted to thank you all for your useful comments, the critical comments and the nice words! This has really helped me to put things into perspective for me, at least a little.

I'm still terrified to do the wrong thing but we have decided that the girl will be allowed to keep working with him. Her mum is informed and there will be an adult present at all times. She's also been asked to wear a hat and, as I've been advised by PM, a body protector when handling him.

We have also decided to get the vet out to test his blood, just to rule out any health issues. The physio is also booked to check him.

I am in contact with a behaviourist, I'll ask her to come out once we've ruled out physical issues.

We're also looking for another instructor as we speak, we've got a few promising ones to pick from, we just need to find the one that suits us best.
 
Sounds like you are trying to do the right thing by him. If you surround yourself with knowledgeable people, you will be able to get a better picture of how to tackle his issues. Your rider sounds great but probably isn't yet experienced enough to have dealt with everything horses can throw at you.

My last horse reared twice with me under saddle - once when he was alone in a school on a busy yard away from home and once when he didn't understand what I was asking of him when opening a gate. Both times were when he was young and he never did it again in the 16 years I had him. Current horse reared when leading him up from the field when I had had him about three weeks. He had a panic and a bit of a paddy and went up. Fortunately, I have been around horses long enough to anticipate and was well out of the way. However, he, also, has never done it again.

Yes, horses are dangerous, full stop. However, they can be worth investing time and effort in but you need someone who you really trust to tell you whether that is the case with your boy.
 
Gerry-Boy said:
Hi All

I just wanted to thank you all for your useful comments, the critical comments and the nice words! This has really helped me to put things into perspective for me, at least a little.

I'm still terrified to do the wrong thing but we have decided that the girl will be allowed to keep working with him. Her mum is informed and there will be an adult present at all times. She's also been asked to wear a hat and, as I've been advised by PM, a body protector when handling him.

We have also decided to get the vet out to test his blood, just to rule out any health issues. The physio is also booked to check him.

I am in contact with a behaviourist, I'll ask her to come out once we've ruled out physical issues.

We're also looking for another instructor as we speak, we've got a few promising ones to pick from, we just need to find the one that suits us best.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you are doing everything right to me. A good instructor is worth their weight in gold. Mine got my uncatchable, uppity pony into hand & he's now backed & working. The right person makes a massive difference. Good Luck.

(I'm in Nottingham, so not a MILLION miles away & she travels, if you want to pm me & I'll see if she can go to you.)
 
Gerry-Boy said:
Thank you! That gives me real hope!!

We're based in Warwickshire - if anybody knows someone, whether that's an instructor or a behaviourist please let me know!
Click to expand...

Gerry-Boy I'm based in Northampton and I love to work with horses like him - they are the ones with most to give. If you want to PM me or if you find me on facebook (kate redley) and have a nosey and see if you like what I do, then we can talk and see if I can help.

Whatever you decide to do, very best of luck with him xx
 
moleskinsmum said:
Sounds like you are trying to do the right thing by him. If you surround yourself with knowledgeable people, you will be able to get a better picture of how to tackle his issues. Your rider sounds great but probably isn't yet experienced enough to have dealt with everything horses can throw at you.

My last horse reared twice with me under saddle - once when he was alone in a school on a busy yard away from home and once when he didn't understand what I was asking of him when opening a gate. Both times were when he was young and he never did it again in the 16 years I had him. Current horse reared when leading him up from the field when I had had him about three weeks. He had a panic and a bit of a paddy and went up. Fortunately, I have been around horses long enough to anticipate and was well out of the way. However, he, also, has never done it again.

Yes, horses are dangerous, full stop. However, they can be worth investing time and effort in but you need someone who you really trust to tell you whether that is the case with your boy.
Click to expand...

ETA - after posting this, I realised that current horse's default setting is still to rear when stressed - especially when tied up, although he has never done it again when being led. However, I have learned to manage this. If on the yard, he is unclipped immediately and led around until calm again and the other time he does it is when loaded so he always goes on last and we set off immediately and he then travels well and happily. In fact, on our most recent outing, he didn't do it either going or returning so it seems he is now less stressed about it. The key thing is that I recognise the signs and deal with it promptly. The yard incidents are usually down to exterior factors like shooting nearby, horses trotting past on the road or clipping (which he hates). Basically, I don't want it as behaviour but he does it when stressed so quick action and patience are always key to dealing with it. I don't feel he puts me in danger but I also ensure he is never put into the position where he could damage himself or anybody else. So he is never left unattended and everyone on our yard knows what to do if he starts to go up. It has now reduced from full-up rears to front feet a foot off the ground too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top