Are YOs and YMs people to be feared?

[bouncing_ball]

This thread has thrown my old age plans into complete chaos! I had thought of downsizing to a smaller house if I'm left on my own and putting two horses in livery. Or potentially staying here and having a couple of liveries for company.

Now I don't want to do either!

I think there are good yards, but they are outnumbered by the not so good yards. It is a challenge to find good yards.

If you look for a long established yard, that is recommended by vets / instructors. Ideally one you have a happy friend at.

Where the set up is such that the yard is making a sustainable return, and is long established.

Where is clear they look after land, fencing, buildings liveries.

One with enough staff, enough well draining grazing, and the vibe is happy friendly liveries.

I’ve learnt rented yards / too old or young yard owners / non viable business plans for yards / not having all maintenance machinery on site are all bad signs.

Normally the best yards don’t need to advertise, and are found via local knowledge. The ones always advertising are usually doing so for a reason.

 

[Wagtail]

I can't believe the attitude of some people on this thread. All YOers are bat **** crazy? Really? Thankfully I have never come across one (liveried at three different yards as a client and had other friends who are YOers). I have run my own livery yard for the past twelve years. I treat the horses as well as my own. They want for nothing. I carry out all requests from clients to the letter. All horses are fed, rugged and bedded to owners exact requirements. Rugs are changed every morning and evening, hooves are picked out daily. Horses are washed off and cleaned daily with warm water. They have late night top ups of forage and skipping out. My clients are all lovely people who are respectful and polite. Never take advantage or complain (although I don't give them reason to). Now I don't think this is an unusual situation. Yes there will be bad yards, but this whole thread is a bit scare mongering.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Most YOs are bat s hit crazy and many lie through their teeth.

Oh deffo the first part of the sentence, yep I confess to being as mad as a box of frogs on occasions, but please don't tar us all with the same brush expressed in the latter part of the sentence! Not true!! - and not fair either...... there ARE some good yards and YO's out there and IME the best ones are the places where the YO comes across as a bit of a Dragon on first impressions....

 

[indiat]

The problem is that people cannot vote with their feet nd some YOs get away with murder as a result. Yards are already closing left, right and centre, especially in the South of Egnland. In the yards that are left, some offer serious compromises, like no turn out in the winter. Turn out is most liveries number one concern and if you can find a place that will turn your horse regularly or at all, you will put up with a lot to keep them there. I know I put up with horrendous rudeness and a very stressful environment for me at one yard, to keep my animal happy, because I could walk away and have a drink after an unpleasant encounter with the YO but if I moved him, he would have to live with little to no turnout in the winter and limited over the summer, as that was all that was being offered around us. I chose to put him first, but it doesn't mean I was happy about it. Yes, there are good and bad YOs but there is really no onus on bad livery owners to improve as their liveries may feel they have no choice. And if you don't get good customer services, who on earth do you complain to?!

 

[cobgoblin]

I don't know why you are all getting so uppity about being called bat ***** crazy.....most of the YOs I've known have been bat ***** crazy, but I've had great fun with them, some memorable rides and enjoyed being on their yards.

Most horse owners are bat ***** crazy anyway!

 

[ljohnsonsj]

I have the most amazing YO's.

I've been on two of their yards now, was on one and they moved and was doing a new yard up and now I am there.

They would bend over backwards for us, the horses are always looked after even if it isnt their 'duty'. I wouldn't be anywhere else they are fabulous

 

[Damnation]

There are good and bad yards, and yard owners.

I have been on 8 yards, of all of them, I have moved from 2 because of the YO's.

First one, the woman was an utter bully, and totally mental. I was 17 and she reqularly sent me home in tears telling me my horse should be shot etc, when I eventually plucked up the courage to tell her to leave me alone (horse was well cared for and I didn't say boo to a goose at the time) she demanded a meeting with my parents who sat, listened, made all the right noises then rang my boss at the yard I worked at and told him she didn't care how he did it, find me a stable ASAP. I paid the months notice and left 2 weeks later.

2nd one, well, I can't even begin to describe what happened there but when another livery went to leave she went mental, and I mean threw her toys out of the pram temper tantrum so livery left within 2 days, she was going to stay the month but after that she worried for her horses care (lamanitic) so left ASAP. When I went to leave I had a backup in case the YO had the same reaction, but she didn't and I don't think she would. I am older and wiser now, I will not tolerate anyone yelling at me/bullying me and she knew it.

Current YO is bloody amazing and I am not going anywhere anytime soon even if she tripled her prices.

I think part of the problem is when people blurr the lines between friend and customer. Of course you need a good functioning relationship between customer and YO, at the end of the day your goals should be the same that you want your horse's needs catered for. At the same time, you need to be able to keep that professional distance there.

It has happened to me where me and YO have become "friends" but then YO starts taking the pee out of me forgetting I am also a paying customer, and I have seen it the other way round too where people expect favours from the YO when the YO has to make a living too.

 

[Ddraig_wen]

I've found a mix of yard owners, sadly in our area there's far more horses than yards so people can't vote with their feet as often as they'd like. There also seems to be more of a 70/30 split towards the to be feared than anything else round here.
My ex partner has his horse dumped in the road by one yard owner because she got caught out by the rspca for making spurious claims and they told her they knew she was being paid full livery so how was the horse not being fed. -This place closed

A yard I was on you lived in fear of what rumors would be started next or what you'd get blamed for. YO used to borrow tack and feed, not give it back then blame it on other liveries and if she was caught out woe betide you. She's also make your life hell if she knew you intended to leave.
She wasn't like this originally so we always wondered what changed her so much. This yard closed.

I left a yard where the YO would phone you up at random times of night and shout abuse at you down the phone and if you ever took anyone onto his yard he would be awful to them. He reduced my sharer to tears once. Not to mention shouting abuse at the vet and myself and other liveries.
However it was the only yard that allowed stallions at the time so I had no choice.

I had grazing off a lovely lady last year who was an allround pleasure to deal with and I still get one with her really well.

At the moment though I have lovely landlords. They do their own repairs, call me if there's anything wrong, genuinely seem to like the horses and don't start rumors or have complete silly fits.

 

[Annagain]

Stories like the ones I read on here are precisely why I'm determined to never leave my yard. Lovely YO, lovely fellow liveries, all year turnout (in overnight in winter) basic but decent facilities. There are minor niggles of course - I don't think the perfect yard exists just as the perfect horse/man doesn't - but it's certainly the best yard I've ever been at and way better than any others in the area. I've been there 14 years and plan on being there at least as long again. A few years ago my YO told us all she was planning on selling up which was terrible news for us but thankfully she changed her mind at the last minute.

 

[windand rain]

I think probably most horse owners and livery yard owners have different views on thing so can appear crazy. There are a few that genuinely are but they are the ones that attract negative attention and can get the good ones dragged down with the bad ones. I rent my own land now but when I was on livery there was an undertone of if you dont like what I say then on your bike. DIY was definitely DIY if you wanted anything doing dont ask just do it yourself including building repairs, roofing and fencing. I cant say I blame some people who have come across some batty ones we have a localish yard who on a whim turns every horse out onto the main port road and locks the gates so the owners cannot retrieve their property. It appears to be a regular occurance having on several ocassions having to organise transport for these poor horses just to get them off the roads. But I agree that respect is a two way street and horse owners are often as bad and are quick to bad mouth anyone that doesnt agree with them

 

[Shadowdancing]

Can I please emphasise that I personally haven't found crazy YOs? I have got on very well with most of them, not that I've ever been especially pally with them. Just I don't think too demanding, willing to let certain things go and not too keen to charge into a heated discussion. It's mutual respect isn't it. Being willing to put yourself in the other person's shoes.

 

[Damnation]

Just I don't think too demanding, willing to let certain things go and not too keen to charge into a heated discussion. It's mutual respect isn't it. Being willing to put yourself in the other person's shoes.

I think this is the key. I like to think that as a Livery I am not too high maintenence, I used to be a groom so I am pretty well trained!

I pay ontime, I keep my area's clean, I turn up every single day to check/muck out, and I will help anyone I can. Luckily most of my YO's have been the same on the same wavelength.

This current YO has been the best of the bunch, especially with recent events regarding my horse injuring herself, she wanted as little stress put on me as possible regarding her arrangments (horse wouldn't stay in the stable durning the day) and has rolled with everything I have suggested for an easy life. But then I communicated with her at every step of the way so she was always in the loop.

I will be getting her a nice bottle of wine as thanks!!!

 

[Cecile]

I know this is about YO's or YM's being a bit of a bully and I am always shocked at some of the stories I hear, would it be advantageous for YO's or YM's to sign up for this idea?
Not on My Yard

https://www.facebook.com/notonmyyard
If some YO's or YM's are the ones acting as a bully I feel they would avoid joining like the plague, also stories are abound about people made to feel isolated due to other people on the yard bullying them,
this may also help someone who is easily bullied to choose a yard where it will not be tolerated

I don't know much about the Not on My Yard scheme apart from what I have read

 

[SO1]

Managing people is hard and there is skill involved.

The majority of those who manage yards have had no management training and work in isolation, which is unlike most managers who work for companies who will often get management training and have colleagues to support them when dealing with difficult situations. I am not surprised difficulties arise in yards, especially as working full time and having a horse can be quite tiring so people may get more irritable or emotional if they are tired when they get to the yard or have had a difficult day at work or at home if they are trying to manage a family life as well.

Managing expectations and dealing with change are two aspects of management that may be challenging. YO should be honest about what they are providing and also about how much interaction they are going to be having with customers and when they will intervene. I have been on a few different yards as a sharer and an owner and none of the owners/managers have been horrible. I have seen issues arise when people's expectations are not meet or there have been changes and liveries become unhappy due to the changes and this has caused arguments. However these things happen in normal workplaces too.

Are a lot of the things that liveries require from YO/YM reasonable given the price they are paying? I think YO's have the right to change their mind about what they decide to offer, after all circumstances do change. If they do decide to change something then they should wherever possible give people reasonable notice. In all workplaces people will make mistakes and I think both liveries and YO ought to be accept there may be times when people do make an error. A lot of grumbles about YO seem to involve them not dealing with horse welfare issues or bad behaviour from liveries. I would not be expecting YO to intervene in individual disagreements between liveries due to difference of opinion as to what is acceptable behaviour or horse care.

Even if supply outstrips demand especially on the cheaper yards so YO don't have to make much effort to fill spaces it must be nicer for the YO to have happy customers than miserable moaning ones.

I wonder if a system a bit like an annual appraisal in a workplace might work. YO or YM every year has a one to one with each customer. They ask the customer what they like about the yard, this then helps them to continue to offer that service or facility and also gives a bit of a boost as they know what the customer appreciates or likes about their yard and they can use this information to market the yard if they have vacancies. They can also ask the customer what they could do to improve, it may be that there is something really easy they could do that might make a big difference, an easy win that increases satisfaction. If it is something that cannot be provided for example an indoor school or 24/7 turnout then this give the YO a chance to explain why they can't offer it or what the increased cost would be if they did. This could also be a chance for the YO to give some feedback to the livery for example they might say, you are very tidy and look after your horse well but you don't pay on time and that can cause cash flow problems, or they make last minute requests or disturb the yard owner when they are working, not taking the poo's out the school, leaving the jumps up, letting dogs or young children run around unsupervised or whatever might be annoying, these sort of things help people improve their behaviour and be less irritating.
.

 

[Caol Ila]

Agree fully with SO1. What I would not give to be able to have reasonable conversations about my horse to YOs. Used to have it at my old barn in the US, but the owner was particularly good at dealing with people as well as horses. I think that's makes a difference. Since coming to the UK, I haven't yet come across a YO with great people skills, and I feel as if some YOs are prone to treating average amateur one-horse owners like idiots who don't know anything, and don't really listen to them. There are no doubt some who are as good as my barn owner in Colorado, but I haven't been at their yard yet. Don't think it's a US-UK thing (there are plenty of nutbag barn owners in the States), but it's down to the individual, and where you're lucky enough, or unlucky enough, to board.

i.e When I moved to the UK (Durham), I told the YO that my horse needed individual turnout because her equine social skills suck and she eats other horses. YO agreed. A few months after I moved to the yard, YO insisted that her herd could teach my horse social skills and sort her out. I said we'd been there, done that, got the t-shirt, and it proved to be more dangerous for all horses than it was worth. YO said that her herd was different; they wouldn't take no sh * t, they would show her. I stuck to my guns about it being a bad idea. YO put my horse in with her herd anyway. Then, I showed up at the yard one day, and the YO announced, "Did you know that your horse is really bad with other horses and chases them and tries to pin them into corners and kick?" Um, yes in fact, as we had this conversation multiple times, and you didn't listen/believe me.

People start boarding barns and livery yards for many reasons, but I suspect liking people and being good at management is not one of them. Horses also attract crazy people (that means us), so put those two things together, and a yard run by crazy people isn't a surprise.

 

[j1ffy]

I'm very lucky and have a YO and YM with good people skills. The YO views it as an essential part of the job, the same as running any other business.

She is quite exceptional though and I purposefully set out to find a yard run by someone with that mentality, having dealt with / met a number of crazy-horsewomen-turned-yard-managers/owners in the past. I prefer to pay for more professional service than tiptoe around someone's outdated beliefs and mood swings

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Which is perhaps as well! I just consider that your attitude to people who rent out stabling and grazing to be odd and incredibly rude.

Well I find the attitude of most of the people renting out stabling and grazing to be odd and incredibly rude. I'm open minded with everyone I meet and I treat people as I find them. Everyone has my respect from the start, unless they do something that proves they don't deserve it. I believe respect should be a 2 way thing. If a particular YO doesn't respect their clients and treats them like s hit, why should I respect them? I'm polite and friendly to everyone, doesn't mean I have to like them or respect them. There are some lovely YOs out there, but sadly they're in the minority.